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D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second
  
 
morris
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


la puffin wrote:
Since it's written up as a "commercial sports" camera (whatever that means), three seconds is not very long. Take for an example, a runner sliding into home plate. If you start shooting as he becomes airborne and follow through to the slide and reaction, that's a lot longer than three seconds, and any of those frames could be "the one". During the Memorial Day fight between the Giants and the Nationals, I hammered away on my D5. That went on for a long time and I got a lot of great shots out of that.


Interesting,

A runner doing the 100 yard dash takes 10 seconds. Or 10 yards per second. It's 90 feet between bases or 30 yards. I'd expect the runner to be going full speed at the start of the slide. I've never seen someone slide more than 2 yards and usually 1 yard or less. If you hit the shutter release as they start the slide 3 seconds should be plenty of time for a 1 yard time and I can see the occasional time when you would need more.

I shoot birds in flight these days and 3 seconds is an eternity. When I shot sports it was all manual and I had to chose the moments I wanted. I still prefer to do this today though I do shoot short bursts.

Now, if you are going to rely on the camera to capture the magic moment, is 10 FPS fast enough? How about motor sports where a crash can take a very long time?

Morris



Sep 23, 2017 at 06:26 PM
JimKasson
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


gdsf2 wrote:
Jim, I am not sure what you mean by “not really loosing any buffer.” I did not read that in his explanation.


The buffer holds the same number of images in each case. The input rate is higher with the grip, and the emptying rate is slower because of the shared BW, which means that it takes less time for the buffer to fill. But the buffer is not smaller.

Jim




Sep 23, 2017 at 06:42 PM
gdsf2
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


JimKasson wrote:
The buffer holds the same number of images in each case. The input rate is higher with the grip, and the emptying rate is the same, which means that it takes less time for the buffer to fill. But the buffer is not smaller.

Jim



You are talking about the buffer memory. That is just one factor to determining the buffer depth, which is the number of shots you can take continiously before the camera stops taking pictures. The buffer depth is cut in half. That is what matters to people who take long bursts. You basically have 7 seconds at 7fps or 4 seconds at 9 fps. In other words, you don’t just get less shooting time, you also get less shots.



Sep 23, 2017 at 06:47 PM
JimKasson
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


gdsf2 wrote:
You are talking about the buffer memory. That is just one factor to determining the buffer depth, which is the number of shots you can take continiously before the camera stops taking pictures. The buffer depth is cut in half. That is what matters to people who take long bursts. You basically have 7 seconds at 7fps or 4 seconds at 9 fps. In other words, you don’t just get less shooting time, you also get less shots.


Just two ways to look at it. Your way is valid, too. By the way, my definition of buffer depth is different from yours, but I think yours is valid as well.

Jim




Sep 23, 2017 at 07:34 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


morris wrote:
I also wonder why people want such large buffers. At 10 FPS 30 frames is 3 seconds which is a very long time for things to happen.

Morris


I agree for the most part. Where I find the deeper buffer handy is when there's non stop action. There are times with birds I'll have a bunch of them landing or taking off, one after the other. The second you leave one, you can shoot the next one. I've hit 30 frames in the buffer in those scenarios before and it's not fun. The good news is, the XQD cards clear pretty quick.




Sep 23, 2017 at 08:23 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


BTW - has anyone tested their D850's buffer? Using 400MB/s Sony XQD "G" cards, I get about 46 shots, not 51. Same with the 440MB/s lexar cards. I could be missing a setting or something, but 14bit lossless compressed seems right.

BTW - does anyone have the grip yet??



Sep 23, 2017 at 08:25 PM
 

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ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


If some settings such as automatic distortion control are on, the maximum burst depth can be reduced.


Sep 23, 2017 at 09:18 PM
SoundHound
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


I bought all the Nikon bodies from the D3 to the D5. The double speeded D3 and the D3s (standard double speed memory) was usually enough for my kind of shooting. According to the Nikon spec that was over 40 compressed RAWs-the D5 is 200.

Realize that this is not an accident. The buffer size is one feature (faster fps and less VF blanking are others) that allows Nikon to sell $6500 D5 bodies. So, by design, the D850 is marginal for some sports/action work. So think of a D850 as a "Gateway Drug" to buy a D5.

Incidentally, I have done a fair amount of portraits and enlarged prints for close viewing. Eighteen or 20 mP is plenty since you really don't want to see pores or fine facial hair. I often use the 200mm F2.0 so much less of the face is in focus-except the near eye.



Sep 28, 2017 at 05:44 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


morris wrote:
I also wonder why people want such large buffers. At 10 FPS 30 frames is 3 seconds which is a very long time for things to happen.


Two answers I can share:

1. I shoot airplanes in flight, usually doing aerobatics, which -- to look realistic -- require a slower shutter speed like 1/100. Tracking an airplane during an aerobatic maneuver, one ideally holds the shutter button down for a long burst while panning along with the airplane. Then, while the buffer has only begun to clear, one repeats for the next maneuver. These long bursts are necessary because even a skilled shooter will get a keeper rate of 1% (at best!) of images with a perfectly-sharp airplane and a perfectly-blurred propeller. One quickly runs out of buffer.

2. There is sometimes non-stop action, as happens in wildlife. Steve already mentioned this. But the point is that multiple shooting opportunities gang up on you and it's great to be able to handle them.



Sep 28, 2017 at 10:47 PM
Jan Brittenson
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


The write queue backs up by the difference between the fill rate and the drain rate. If images are 100MB and you shoot 9fps you'll be adding 900MB/s to it. If the card drains at 400MB/s this means the queue backs up at 500MB/s. If you shoot 7fps it backs up at 700-400=300MB/s. Hence, the queue is "deeper" at a lower fill rate.

With,
N = number of images until the queue is full (unitless)
Rd = drain rate (B/s)
Rf = fill rate (B/s)
Si = size per image (B)
Sb = buffer size (B)

Then,
Rf > Rd: N = Sb/Si(Rf-Rd)
Rf <= Rd: the queue never fills up

If Si is an average, then N is an average as well.



Sep 28, 2017 at 11:18 PM
Jan Brittenson
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


The write queue backs up by the difference between the fill rate and the drain rate. If images are 100MB and you shoot 9fps you'll be adding 900MB/s to it. If the card drains at 400MB/s this means the queue backs up at 500MB/s. If you shoot 7fps it backs up at 700-400=300MB/s. Hence, the queue is "deeper" at a lower fill rate.

With,
N = number of images until the queue is full (unitless)
Rd = drain rate (B/s)
Si = size per image (B)
Sb = buffer size (B)
f = frame rate (s^-1)

Then,
Rf > Rd: N = Sb/(Rd-(Si*f))
Rf <= Rd: the queue never fills up

If Si is an average, then N is an average as well.

Edit: sorry, was rushing a bit. Don't understand why this forumware won't let me edit or delete properly.



Sep 28, 2017 at 11:20 PM
snapsy
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · D850 buffer much lower at 9 frames per second


This is starting to be discussed elsewhere online as grip deliveries begin

https://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/5344/d850-buffer
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60191045



Oct 01, 2017 at 07:49 PM
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