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Rant :: why do we get so lazy?
  
 
ZachOly
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


jmraso wrote:
Perfect scene for B&W for the girls ! The little colour you get it by tbe window, at least give us a window ! 😊😊



B&W = lazy way out




Sep 22, 2017 at 04:44 PM
LeeSimms
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


still laughing


Sep 22, 2017 at 05:06 PM
BSPhotog
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


ZachOly wrote:
B&W = lazy way out



lazy = classy and artsy.



Sep 22, 2017 at 05:26 PM
ZachOly
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


Natural light, B&W & unposed = so in right now


Sep 22, 2017 at 05:47 PM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


Quantity and quality of light are two different concepts.

Bouncing a flash might give you quantity of light, but it kills the ambient, especially during preparation.

That sliver of window light can be so dramatic and I would kill to have such a setup. Often I close the blinds to make it become a sliver, to prevent light spilling everywhere in the room.

You would have to utilize off camera flash to make the light soft and directional. Lack of time (and space) often occurs during preparation, unfortunately so we go with whatever available.

And I don't understand what is the risk in shooting with ISO 4000. It is 2017 already and most modern cameras offer exceptional high ISO performance, clients never complain about "noise".

I would label bouncing flash during preparation "lazy":

1) You aren't taking advantage of the dramatic sliver of light, both directional and soft;

2) Not utilizing off camera flash if no window;


LeeSimms wrote:
Qualifying my beef more, and this is not about seconds it's more about primaries.

You're shooting between guys and girls prep in alternate rooms in the same building. The guys are in spacious room, with a wall of windows. The girls are in a cave (it happens) with only a sliver of window light. If you can't move the women to the section of the room with window light, it's super risky to shoot in the iso4000+ range without a flash. Your camera can handle it, sure, but the light sucks (usually) with a mix of window, tungsten, LED, cow
...Show more



Sep 22, 2017 at 06:18 PM
LeeSimms
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


> And I don't understand what is the risk in shooting with ISO 4000

There is no risk in ISO4000, provided the light looks good.

Back to our scenario. No, you can't move anyone near the window. No, there's not enough room for off-camera strobe or LED. The ambient light is mixed ... green, purple and a little blueish widow light. Bounced flash still lazy?



Sep 22, 2017 at 06:24 PM
ZachOly
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


It's 2017, which means every lightbulb in every getting ready room is a different color temperature.


Sep 22, 2017 at 06:40 PM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


With all due respect LeeSimms,

1) Turn off artificial light sources for the reasons you mentioned. Not only do I turn them off, I unplug and move the god damn lamp into another room whenever possible (I don't like seeing it in the background or spending time photoshopping the wires);

2) Take control and position people closer to the window? You are the photographer and our clients expect instructions. It is wedding photography, not photo journalism assignments for news editors. We are allowed to move and stage things;

Not taking control, not saying anything, not positioning our subject to take advantage of the best possible available light and not setting up highest quality light when there's none (off-camera flash), only to pop a on-camera flash and bounce, to me that's taking the easy way out.

Now that's lazy.


LeeSimms wrote:
> And I don't understand what is the risk in shooting with ISO 4000

There is no risk in ISO4000, provided the light looks good.

Back to our scenario. No, you can't move anyone near the window. No, there's not enough room for off-camera strobe or LED. The ambient light is mixed ... green, purple and a little blueish widow light. Bounced flash still lazy?




Sep 22, 2017 at 06:53 PM
jecottrell
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


ZachOly wrote:
^ Half my clients just want a photoshoot where they get drunk at the end of it.


Newfies?




Sep 22, 2017 at 07:37 PM
LeeSimms
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


In the scenario I speak of there's no time to rearrange the furniture and if you turn off artificial light sources the women can't see.

We're not talking about a suite at the Four Seasons. This is a poorly designed bridal prep room in a historic building.

But I like the idea of rearranging a room and getting rid of lights and wall art to suit the photographer's needs. That's novel.



Sep 22, 2017 at 07:38 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



TheyCallMeJ
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


LeeSimms, I feel that you are looking for excuses for the sake of it.

I remember someone talking about "not being lazy" and "dynamic problem solving"?

I have shot at nice hotels and some of the ugliest bedrooms you can possibly imagine during preparation. Yet, the approach is the same, look for the best possible light (99% chance that's a window), clean background (remove crap out of the way) and positioning/posing my clients.

Even if we ignore unwanted furniture, turning off the lights and asking the bride to walk closer to the window takes literally seconds...

Come on, not having enough time to flip a switch?!

For the record, I do move lamps, unhang wall art and shove large ugly carpets into the closet even at the nicest hotels.

If I can quote good old Cliff: "Well at least the hotel staff knows we were there."




Sep 22, 2017 at 08:01 PM
ZachOly
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


jecottrell wrote:
Newfies?



Sin Jawns



Sep 22, 2017 at 09:19 PM
LeeSimms
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


TheyCallMeJ, a scant few of our preps are in hotels. Most are in venue prep rooms and many are historical properties. If you want invited back by the venue you gotta watch moving things. I'm not saying you can't do but when I bride's getting ready in a tight dark space, there's not a lot you can do.

You're making excuses for not turning on a speed light. I'm making excuses for not moving the furniture, because there's no time.



Sep 22, 2017 at 09:27 PM
BSPhotog
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


TheyCallMeJ wrote:
LeeSimms, I feel that you are looking for excuses for the sake of it.

I remember someone talking about "not being lazy" and "dynamic problem solving"?

I have shot at nice hotels and some of the ugliest bedrooms you can possibly imagine during preparation. Yet, the approach is the same, look for the best possible light (99% chance that's a window), clean background (remove crap out of the way) and positioning/posing my clients.

Even if we ignore unwanted furniture, turning off the lights and asking the bride to walk closer to the window takes literally seconds...

Come on, not having enough time to flip
...Show more

I think we can all agree that there is no one solution that is right for every room and every client. Some clients would really rather be left alone. Will the photos be bad? No. Will they bey less manicured than a staged photo, sure. I dig black and white for prep a lot of the time, even when there aren't 5 colors of light. It is just a nice narrative transition some of the time. There are other locations and clients that will clean up the room and move shit for you, and that's cool too.



Sep 22, 2017 at 09:57 PM
jmraso
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


LeeSimms, you are damm forcing the senario ! 😊


Sep 22, 2017 at 10:01 PM
Scott Mosher
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


So when I started my day job full time in Jan of last year working in a digital production environment, there are a lot of different processes and workflows that we use. With my photography/digital imaging background, I knew within 2-3 days how inefficient a lot of the workflows and techniques were. When I'd ask the supervisors/other employees why we did something, I always got the same reply - "That is just how we do it here" Any attempt I made at suggesting a change was somewhat dismissed or resisted. The idea was that the process works, everything was fine, and if it ain't broke, don't fit it.

We got a new manager in October of last year who was very open to change. Using data that I had been keeping track of such as time to do each part of our process, film length, and a few others, we started changing making a couple big changes in our workflow with a lot of minor changes. What was the result? With our new manager we went from producing 180,000 images per day on average to 350,000+ easily per day on average.

To quote Rustybug: "People tend to get comfortable at a given plateau / level, and don't embark on the necessary effort to raise ourselves to the next plateau. Is that "lazy" or just "comfort zone" that folks don't want to get out of to achieve the growth? In the case of the prime / zoom ... I suspect it may have a bit to do with WO / dof limits (another form of "I do X only" ) as well.

In part, that plateau effect comes from a non-discriminating audience that has somehow come to accept certain aspects of mediocrity as a norm, thus not being a driving force for continuous improvement. The sea of mediocrity is much larger than the pinnacle of excellence."

That is what I see in photography (myself included). We hit that plateau, things are going great, and we tend to not have a vision for what could be next. The learning process stops. One thing I have been learning about lately is Targeted Practice. Identify a weakness you have, and work on it specifically. That is how you will learn and grow. Lets say you suck at posing guys/the groom. Each wedding try a new pose with the guys. When you look at the images after, see what looks good, what didn't. Make tweaks, try it again next wedding. Repeat the process. Want to try new B&G portraits? Find a previous couple you shot or some friends and during the off season take them out for an hour or so and try new things.



Sep 23, 2017 at 01:42 PM
Ziffl3
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


Scott Mosher wrote:
That is what I see in photography (myself included). We hit that plateau, things are going great, and we tend to not have a vision for what could be next. The learning process stops. One thing I have been learning about lately is Targeted Practice. Identify a weakness you have, and work on it specifically. That is how you will learn and grow. Lets say you suck at posing guys/the groom. Each wedding try a new pose with the guys. When you look at the images after, see what looks good, what didn't. Make tweaks, try it again next
...Show more


^^^^^^^ this

I have added several several different types of shots to the tool box by doing the same approach as above.


as far as moving items around .... lets just say a particular Westin hotel in north dallas area knows me well..... as in re-arranging the entire lobby of furniture.




Sep 23, 2017 at 02:45 PM
Scott Mosher
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


Ziffl3 wrote:
as far as moving items around .... lets just say a particular Westin hotel in north dallas area knows me well..... as in re-arranging the entire lobby of furniture.



Yeap, been there, done that. Though I usually try to move it back if I have time




Sep 23, 2017 at 04:26 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


Scott Mosher wrote:
Targeted Practice. Identify a weakness you have, and work on it specifically. That is how you will learn and grow.


+1

Each year, I come up with ONE new thing that I want to accomplish by the end of the year that will "raise" my game a notch.

It could be anything from learning color theory one year, to studying portrait styles another year, to shooting BIF (not wedding, I know), to understanding the use of tilt / shift, etc, to improving my NR, to using multi-strobe setup, to ... pick something that you know isn't in your present arsenal (hopefully something that will be useful to filling a gap, or enhancing quality or creativity).

By setting the goal at just ONE per year, I don't feel any real "pressure" to have it replace anything else I have in my arsenal, but over the course of a few years, those things that were once kinda foreign, now seem comfortable to you ... and they slowly build to a very well rounded arsenal, that is ready for anything that comes your way, be that an artistic / creative opportunity or a technical challenge to overcome.

Of course, you can always tackle more than one, but the point is that if you're in the game for the long haul, slow growth can be a very rewarding approach. Even a snail gets down the road sooner or later ... as long as he doesn't decide to sit still in the middle of the road.

Of course, there is somewhat of a caveat to this ... the market is fickle and trendy on one end (which kinda puts some folks on THAT plateau for a period of time), and classical on the other end. Figuring out what manner you desire to grow, can depend on which end of the spectrum you are trying to fulfill.

One of the upcoming years ... my dedicated area of improvement will be "people skills". Somewhere along the line (many years ago) those things went a bit south on me. That's when I bowed out of weddings in the 90's. But, I know that if I do come back in to the game, that's my achilles heel that will require a dedicated effort to improve. No worries though ... I'm not hanging my wedding shingle out anytime soon ... well, I don't think so, anyway.





Sep 23, 2017 at 04:47 PM
zalmyb
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Rant :: why do we get so lazy?


I hear this!

I'm usually far more annoyed with seconds being lazy with composition. Not moving in enough, or far back enough, not going a tad lower, or not making sure the freaking photo is straight!

I shoot primes and crop 98% of my photos

In regards to all the talk about the light in bridal prep room, I barely touch anything (if at all). I'm there to document the day as is. But that's my job and how I sell my work, I totally get that others offer a different product.

I do add light by receptions though as it's just impossible (for me) to shoot without flash and still maintain the feel. Though I just do a simple on-camera flash and blast it straight on...

A m sometimes lazy with learning new skills though, or just have some blacks or something, and I know I need to move past them.

My biggest gripe is photographers not being to produce work similar to what is in their portfolio on a consistent basis. If you advertise a certain level or quality you should be able to deliver.



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:22 PM
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