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ggreene
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Sports Photographs for Free


I used to take photos of my step daughter at equestrian events. The one thing you quickly realized was that every rider had family and friends following them around and documenting their every move with cell phones and uploading to social media in seconds. A lot of riders were already looking at the photos/videos as they walked out of the dressage/jump ring. The nature of viewing images/videos simply changed with the internet and social media and peoples attention span kind of left the workflow of pro photographers in the dust.

There are very few professions out there invulnerable to disruptive technology or cheaper competition.



Oct 13, 2017 at 05:41 PM
henry albert
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Sports Photographs for Free


I gave this photo to little Carlos' mom for free. Am I going to hell?





  NIKON D4    400mm    f/4.0    1/800s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 14, 2017 at 01:48 PM
CW100
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Sports Photographs for Free


ggreene wrote:
I used to take photos of my step daughter at equestrian events. The one thing you quickly realized was that every rider had family and friends following them around and documenting their every move with cell phones and uploading to social media in seconds. A lot of riders were already looking at the photos/videos as they walked out of the dressage/jump ring. The nature of viewing images/videos simply changed with the internet and social media and peoples attention span kind of left the workflow of pro photographers in the dust.

There are very few professions out there invulnerable to disruptive technology
...Show more

you are correct. I once thought if there was a profession immune to disruptive technology or cheaper competition it would be the dentists, they were even immune from managed heath care. Then I saw on the morning news a segment about robot dentists doing total dental implants ..without any human professionals ! .... ugh



Oct 14, 2017 at 02:03 PM
henry albert
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Sports Photographs for Free


CW100 wrote:
you are correct. I once thought if there was a profession immune to disruptive technology or cheaper competition it would be the dentists, they were even immune from managed heath care. Then I saw on the morning news a segment about robot dentists doing total dental implants ..without any human professionals ! .... ugh


It'll get worse. There are studies floating around that predict artificial intelligence and automation with combine to eliminate 40-45 percent of U.S. jobs within 30 years.



Oct 14, 2017 at 03:42 PM
henry albert
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Sports Photographs for Free


ggreene wrote:
There are very few professions out there invulnerable to disruptive technology or cheaper competition.


You're preaching to the choir with me. I started out as a newspaper reporter and editor, then moved over to general print publication editing.



Oct 14, 2017 at 03:50 PM
Brev00
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Sports Photographs for Free


Are you saying that you feel guilty for gifting your photographs to players and parents? Pshaw! Guilt just means that you are criticizing your own motivation because of how you perceive the reaction of others. Who cares? Trust yourself, enjoy yourself. I shot my daughters' sports activities for years. I gave digital files and hard copies to players, parents, and teams. One team used my picture as their Facebook profile pic for quite a while. My daughter's soccer team asked me to be the team photographer one year. Now, I performed the function with my usual free flowing spirit but did get a small stipend for my services. I did not charge for any of the photographs I gave to the student-athletes. Could I have charged? Perhaps. But, then I would have felt guilty!


Oct 19, 2017 at 03:56 PM
joe chance
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Sports Photographs for Free


All these posting reminds me why I sometimes miss the old B/W wet labs days. And it was so lonely being the only photographer on the sideline.


Oct 21, 2017 at 12:53 PM
rcm123
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Sports Photographs for Free


Marty Bingham wrote:
The best way to illustrate that difference would be for you to set up a grill beside the concession stand and give away food. When you are asked to leave explain how you are just giving back. I promise that you would be shut down.

Pro photographers, for the most part, weren't given that protection and were left competing with photographers who were giving away photos. The event photographer who doesn't have the same protection as other vendors is at the mercy of professional courtesy. And we all see how that turned out. Most of them, faced with the
...Show more

Sorry, but your response is inapposite. The real analogy is you (the professional; photographer) showing up at a public sporting event with a hot dog cart and then complaining about spectators who bring a picnic basket and share their food.



Oct 29, 2017 at 06:55 PM
Marty Bingham
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Sports Photographs for Free


Yeah that whole public/private event thing was debated to death when this topic first came up years ago. You're a little late to the game, so to speak.

I don't care enough about it to rehash it at this point. I have moved on to bigger and better things. No hard feelings from my end though. Y'all have fun with what's left of it.

Marty



Oct 30, 2017 at 01:44 AM
RandyR
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Sports Photographs for Free


I shot HS sports in NC for 10 years. Every year the sales were less and finally the NCHSAA said if you're on the field with one of their passes you could not sell the pics and I was ready to retire anyway. This was never my day job but I still never gave away pics. I won't even shoot anymore because I can't even try to sell the pics. If someone buys one of your pics, even for a few bucks, it should make you feel good, like the pic was good enough for someone to buy it. In NC we've reached the point now where there are no pros on the field, only maxpreps so giving away pics isn't costing anyone else money


Oct 30, 2017 at 01:47 PM
 

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dbaphotography
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Sports Photographs for Free


RandyR wrote:
... In NC we've reached the point now where there are no pros on the field, only maxpreps so giving away pics isn't costing anyone else money


MaxPreps only pays photographers for special assignments. The only income they make from most games is from photo sales. (At least that's the way it is in Utah.) So people giving away photos hurts MaxPreps photogs as well.

I still shoot for MaxPreps, but it's mostly for fun because it's rare to find a game without a small crowd of other people with cameras on the field.





Oct 30, 2017 at 02:35 PM
RandyR
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Sports Photographs for Free


dbaphotography wrote:
MaxPreps only pays photographers for special assignments. The only income they make from most games is from photo sales. (At least that's the way it is in Utah.) So people giving away photos hurts MaxPreps photogs as well.

I still shoot for MaxPreps, but it's mostly for fun because it's rare to find a game without a small crowd of other people with cameras on the field.



good point
I used to shoot for them and might again some day now that that's the only way to sell (I assume, haven't checked but MP is in good with NC)



Oct 30, 2017 at 02:49 PM
graycat
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Sports Photographs for Free


I started off years ago as dad with a camera. I kept buying gear, started a SmugMug account, sold lots of photos, did a some weddings - hated it, did senior pictures - hated it, but I really liked school sports and working with students. So one day the school I spent the most time at calls me on the phone and asks me to take on their photo/video program and teach students. So now I get paid to teach, take as many photos as I like, buy equipment, and develop curriculum and projects. My job is to share my enthusiasm for something I love because our district believes digital media skills are valuable and worthwhile. It is very rewarding to watch my kids process RAW files and make something they are proud of.

For me, giving those photos away for free back then, has been paying me back ever since, because those free photos opened the door to the photography job that I really wanted. Photography has been financially good for me, just in a different way.



Nov 30, 2017 at 09:07 AM
oguruma
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Sports Photographs for Free


ScooterShooter wrote:
Based on the "Immutable Laws" thread, I'm now wondering if I am somehow disrespecting the photography brotherhood by providing free photos? I have a full-time job and so am not in it for the money. I just enjoy the challenge of getting a good image.


Photography brotherhood? I don't think there is any such thing. I more likely there are gatekeepers that don't like the idea of competition from people who are willing to give away stuff for free....




Dec 18, 2017 at 02:27 PM
CW100
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Sports Photographs for Free


graycat wrote:
I started off years ago as dad with a camera. I kept buying gear, started a SmugMug account, sold lots of photos, did a some weddings - hated it, did senior pictures - hated it, but I really liked school sports and working with students. So one day the school I spent the most time at calls me on the phone and asks me to take on their photo/video program and teach students. So now I get paid to teach, take as many photos as I like, buy equipment, and develop curriculum and projects. My job is to share my
...Show more

seems like most of the financial rewards in photography are in teaching - seminars, classes, online- than actually selling photos





Dec 18, 2017 at 02:42 PM
oguruma
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Sports Photographs for Free


schlotz wrote:
Sorry but you might have missed the point that others & myself have been making. It has nothing to do with giving photos to grandma etc... Being an 'amateur' is NOT a justification for providing free action photos to the public just so one can feel good. Treading on someone else's livelihood is not how most were raised yet somewhere in there a number of individuals have chosen to forget what they were taught.


What? Providing a service for free is "treading on someone else's livelihood"? I own a couple restaurants. Are church food banks "treading on my livelihood"? You seem to lack an understanding of how a free market works... You don't get to cry fowl when somebody is willing to provide a service that competes with yours for free...




Dec 18, 2017 at 05:25 PM
schlotz
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Sports Photographs for Free


Church food banks, family & relatives etc... are essentially the same and not analogous to photography IMHO. At the end of the day, justification (insert the reason of choice) for free sports photography has essentially eliminated a part of the profession. It's just sad to see poor judgement so prevalent where it rarely existed 35-40 years earlier and unfortunately it continues to be a sign of the times.

Many of us, including me, moved on quite some time ago.



Dec 18, 2017 at 07:16 PM
oguruma
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Sports Photographs for Free


schlotz wrote:
Church food banks, family & relatives etc... are essentially the same and not analogous to photography IMHO. At the end of the day, justification (insert the reason of choice) for free sports photography has essentially eliminated a part of the profession. It's just sad to see poor judgement so prevalent where it rarely existed 35-40 years earlier and unfortunately it continues to be a sign of the times.

Many of us, including me, moved on quite some time ago.


I'm not sure I understand your position.... Yes, people giving out free photographs has made it difficult or impossible for some photographers to make money selling them... And? What is "poor judgement" about that?



Dec 18, 2017 at 07:23 PM
cocodrillo
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Sports Photographs for Free


schlotz wrote:
It's just sad to see poor judgement so prevalent where it rarely existed 35-40 years earlier and unfortunately it continues to be a sign of the times.



I share your disquiet, but it was a VERY different game 35-40 years ago without virtually bombproof AF and digital to make mistakes a non-economic factor. A Canon 400mm f2.8 in the late 1980s went for about the same cost as a minivan. A camera body like an F-1 was a big chunk of a car payment, and it had no AF, which meant you had to be seriously skilled to keep things in focus. Film, done dirt cheap as a bulk loaded B&W, was at least 2 bucks a roll, not to mention the hour of your time to process the negs, let alone print, and the need for a light-proofed room (and the chemicals...). Sure, you could economize with an eight film tank (thank god I had one), but that still limited you to about 250 shots. Plus, there was only one negative. There wasn't space for a judgement problem because it was just too hard and expensive to shoot for shits and giggles.



Dec 18, 2017 at 09:52 PM
la puffin
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Sports Photographs for Free


rcm123 wrote:
Sorry, but your response is inapposite. The real analogy is you (the professional; photographer) showing up at a public sporting event with a hot dog cart and then complaining about spectators who bring a picnic basket and share their food.


True, but most of those picnic baskets taste/look like crap. Unfortunately, people seem to eat a lot of free food, and don't know what a good meal tastes like.



Dec 19, 2017 at 08:18 AM
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