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Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review
  
 
MintMar
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


artificialyello wrote:
If you DR is important to you then get a 5D4, otherwise there is very little difference in the current 5D/6D lineup:

DPR: 6D2 vs 5D3 vs 6D vs 5D4

No rush to upgrade existing gear unless you wanna... Happy Christmas! :-))


Yeah. I'd love to have the "new" sensor in FF, but 5D4 brand new or even second hand is still out of my budget. So I got myself a 6D few months before 6D2 came out. So I got pretty mixed feelings regarding 6D2. Disappointed with the "old" sensor and happy that my 6D really didn't become obsoleted by the successor in the sensor department :-D



Sep 20, 2017 at 10:38 AM
GC5
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


I'd really like a comparison of high ISO and AF. I mostly shoot full frame for indoor sports, not landscape. If I could get close to 1DX ISO performance and AF, I'd be happy to spend the difference in price on lenses.


Sep 20, 2017 at 01:27 PM
Mashuto
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


D.Hussey wrote:
So don't get one and buy yourself a Nikon .... What is the point of your post other than to validate what Mikehit wrote?


I believe the point was that Mikehits post could very easily be read as if the "supposed" failings were just a bunch of wrong people making false claims, while the good points make those who talked it up feel validated.

When I think the truth is that most of those who were upset about dynamic range were totally right to be upset because dynamic range hasnt been improved at all.

So its great that there are genuine improvements, but to those who were worried about dynamic range, its obvious they were worried about it for good reason (myself included).

And it doesnt have to be so black and white... its possible to be disappointed while still acknowledging the good points without having to rush off and buy nikon.

I am glad there are genuine improvements to this sensor because it would have been baffling if it was worse than the 6d across the board. I still wont be picking one up new because DR is important to me, and no I wont be rushing out to buy Nikon either.



Sep 20, 2017 at 04:57 PM
D.Hussey
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


Mashuto wrote:
I believe the point was that Mikehits post could very easily be read as if the "supposed" failings were just a bunch of wrong people making false claims, while the good points make those who talked it up feel validated.

When I think the truth is that most of those who were upset about dynamic range were totally right to be upset because dynamic range hasnt been improved at all.

So its great that there are genuine improvements, but to those who were worried about dynamic range, its obvious they were worried about it for good reason (myself included).

And it doesnt have
...Show more

I don't disagree with what you say .... other than I took "supposed" failings to mean nothing more than some people's considerations that a camera that falls short of other cameras (often far more expensive ones) in some regard consider that to be a flaw in said camera .... but only the OP can say what was meant



Sep 20, 2017 at 05:34 PM
Mikehit
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


D.Hussey wrote:
I don't disagree with what you say .... other than I took "supposed" failings to mean nothing more than some people's considerations that a camera that falls short of other cameras (often far more expensive ones) in some regard consider that to be a flaw in said camera .... but only the OP can say what was meant


One critique I repeatedly hear about Canon is the colour fidelity of their sensor is better than Nikon and much better than Sony, especially on skin tones. It seems the 6D2 has improved that even further.
One thing that has become patently clear is the compromises involved in sensor design and I have no idea how colour fidelity relates to DR in that regard (is it a case of 'either/or'?) but I can easily believe improved DR is a play-off to colour fidelity - if it isn't why do Sony not have a high-DR sensor that also shows high colour sensitivity? And if my supposition is right, Canon has made its compromises albeit compromises that are not respected by a very vocal self-selecting group of critics.
Add to that, DPR seems to acknowledge the more benign nature of the 6D2 noise which adds further benefit.

So my comment was along the lines of whether those very vocal critics will acknowledge that the Canon sensor actually has strengths that the Sony do not. AKA 'DR is not everything'.



Sep 20, 2017 at 07:40 PM
lighthound
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


One thing that has fascinated me since the day the final 6DII spec's were released is the fact that Canon delivered ALL the upgrades that the current 6D owners wanted in an upgrade.

They wanted more AF points.
They got it.

They wanted AF @ f/8
They got it.

They wanted a flippy screen
They got it.

They wanted a touch screen
They got it.

They wanted more MP
They got it.

They wanted faster fps
They got it.

They wanted ani-flicker
They got it.

They wanted improved video
They got it.

Yes, not all the improvements were of the level some wanted such as 4K video, but we're talking about an entry-level FF rig here not a $3500 - $4500 Pro body.

It's just crazy to me that the day BEFORE the 6DII final specs were released, most everyone absolutely loved the original 6D and didn't have hardly any complaints about it other than wanting the above "wishlist".

Canon delivers all the wanted goods and now suddenly overnight the original 6D absolutely sucks.
It must because the new 6DII reportedly does and it's MUCH improved over the original.

And yeah, I get the whole DR stayed the same after 5 years thing, but where was all the complaining about the DR of the original 6D?

The answer is, there was none.
At least not at the level all the charts and graphs readers have brought it up to recently.




Sep 20, 2017 at 08:08 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


lighthound wrote:
And yeah, I get the whole DR stayed the same after 5 years thing, but where was all the complaining about the DR of the original 6D?


Wrapped up in all the general complaining about canon DR

I own a 6D, I bought an a7r (now a7r2) to solve that problem, thats a total of $6500 (nz) to sony that could have gone to canon.

TBH we expected the 6d2 to have better DR and a sensor more along the lines of the 5d4. I mean what total idiot would put out a sensor worse than the last 5 year old one when you have crazy new good tech that almost matches the competition?

I only hope the people they have pushed up market to the 5d4 (me for one, collect it this weekend) make up for the total loss to other brands as nikon and sony are looking really good from a body point of view...



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:35 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


As to cost I dont believe its a cost thing at all.

The 5d4 sensor would likely be cheaper to make than the 6d2. More likely a manufacturing/volume constraint they chose to go with crop sensors for the 80d/200d instead.

Canon could have put the 5d4 sensor in or an on sensor ADC version of the 26mp one, and they could have added full frame 4k video and neither would have cost them from a production pov. They chose otherwise.



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:37 PM
Daan B
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


Its sensor performance continues the upward trend for Canon chips too, although it doesn’t quite hit the dizzy heights of Canon’s best sensor to date in the 5D Mark IV. This is a result of notably lower dynamic range recorded by the 6D Mark II at base ISO, which is a concern for photographers after the best image quality in good light.

I guess a big disappointment for landscape shooters. The 6D was/is really popular in that particular field. Sometimes you can get by with HDR, but most of the times not (because of moving stuff in the frame).

Furthermore, it is only natural to compare the 6D2 to it's current rivals. For base ISO it has worse performance. While Canon has shown it is able to improve base ISO DR with the 80D and 5D4.

In the light of recent offerings from Nikon, Sony and Canon, the 6D2 is a bit underwhelming. That's my opinion anyway.



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:43 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


I use my 6d as my main astro camera, I would have been kinda ok with a lower than 5d4 dr and pixel count if we had a meaningful improvement at higher iso.


Sep 20, 2017 at 08:46 PM
 

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jorkata
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


Mikehit wrote:
One thing that has become patently clear is the compromises involved in sensor design and I have no idea how colour fidelity relates to DR in that regard (is it a case of 'either/or'?) but I can easily believe improved DR is a play-off to colour fidelity ...


In simple terms, dynamic range is the ratio between the highest signal and the noise floor.
The noise floor in modern sensors is determined mostly by the analog-to-digital conversion (ADC).
As with older Canon sensors, the 6DII has a lower dynamic range vs the competition (and newer Canon sensors) due to high noise floor - which in turn is caused by the use of off-sensor ADCs.

Color response, OTOH, is determined by the color filters that are mounted on top of the sensor's (color blind) photo-diodes.

So, in general, dynamic range and color sensitivity are not related.
(Well, unless you put an opaque filter on top of the photo diode, in which case you won't capture any light at all - which will certainly affect DR as well.)


- if it isn't why do Sony not have a high-DR sensor that also shows high colour sensitivity?


To put things in perspective:
Sony is the biggest and most advanced image sensor manufacturer in the world.
They have more experience and better technology than Canon.
Sony had been making image sensor for ~20 years when Canon first started making image sensors as well.
Also, Sony's A7RII and A9 sensors, as well as Nikon's D850 sensors (which is likely a Sony sensor) are at least a generation ahead of Canon's sensors in terms of technology.
These sensors use BSI technology (google it) whereas Canon has yet to introduce a BSI sensor.

So, never assume that Sony doesn't know what they are doing.
Chances are, they know better than Canon.

The one thing that Sony doesn't have is Dual Pixel AF.
This is a neat invention by Canon that I'm sure is making Sony engineers envious.


And if my supposition is right, Canon has made its compromises albeit compromises that are not respected by a very vocal self-selecting group of critics.


Nope. Your supposition is not right.



Edited on Sep 20, 2017 at 10:43 PM · View previous versions



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:51 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


Usually colour response is a trade-off against sensitivity/noise.

Stronger colour filter = less actual light hits the sensor = poorer ISO performance

AFIk the 850 sensor is not a sony product.



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:56 PM
jorkata
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


lighthound wrote:
And yeah, I get the whole DR stayed the same after 5 years thing, but where was all the complaining about the DR of the original 6D?

The answer is, there was none.



Naah. This horse has been beaten to death already - and that's why you don't hear about it anymore.
It will be the same with the 6DII as well.



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:58 PM
lighthound
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


RobDickinson wrote:
Wrapped up in all the general complaining about canon DR

I own a 6D, I bought an a7r (now a7r2) to solve that problem, thats a total of $6500 (nz) to sony that could have gone to canon.

TBH we expected the 6d2 to have better DR and a sensor more along the lines of the 5d4. I mean what total idiot would put out a sensor worse than the last 5 year old one when you have crazy new good tech that almost matches the competition?

I only hope the people they have pushed up market to the 5d4 (me for one,
...Show more

Well you better get busy Mr and start posting some of those amazing images you can produce.
Just make sure they look $6500 better than your old images.

I hear you on the 5DIV path. I almost went there myself but just couldn't justify the extra $$ and then lose the flip screen. I can work around a slight DR disadvantage (on paper) but my back can't work around not having that flippy screen. Priorities I guess.

As for the current flow toward Nikon or Sony. It's just a matter of time before the tide changes to the other direction, just like it always has.




Sep 20, 2017 at 09:00 PM
jorkata
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


RobDickinson wrote:
AFIk the 850 sensor is not a sony product.


We don't know with certainty.

I'm not aware of any company other than Sony that can make FF BSI sensors - but who knows.



Sep 20, 2017 at 09:01 PM
jorkata
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


RobDickinson wrote:
As to cost I dont believe its a cost thing at all.

The 5d4 sensor would likely be cheaper to make than the 6d2. More likely a manufacturing/volume constraint they chose to go with crop sensors for the 80d/200d instead.

Canon could have put the 5d4 sensor in or an on sensor ADC version of the 26mp one, and they could have added full frame 4k video and neither would have cost them from a production pov. They chose otherwise.


+1000



Sep 20, 2017 at 09:03 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


https://petapixel.com/2017/08/24/nikon-d850-image-quality-double-iso-d810-report/

Nikon also revealed to Imaging Resource that the new backside-illuminated (BSI) sensor design in the D850 — the first in a Nikon DSLR — isn’t primarily for low-light performance but rather for speedier shooting speed by providing “more flexibility in the chip’s wiring.”

And if you’ve been wondering about the origins of this new sensor, you’ll be interested to know that Nikon designed it themselves rather than use an off-the-shelf sensor from a sensor manufacturer (e.g. Sony).

“While Nikon contracts with a silicon foundry to actually manufacture the chips, Nikon confirmed that the D850’s sensor is entirely their own design,”



Sep 20, 2017 at 09:05 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


lighthound wrote:
Well you better get busy Mr and start posting some of those amazing images you can produce.
Just make sure they look $6500 better than your old images.


Sure ok I have to justify myself? yeah nah.

I choose to pick the right best tools for creating my images, as Ansel Adams said you get and use the best gear you can (reasonably) lay hands on.

Otherwise I'd still be using that 350d I bought over a decade ago.

I can easily tell what camera I shot with when looking at the image during processing. I can see the improvements from the 5dmk2 to the 6d, I can see the improvements in my a7r files for landscapes.

I've never once regretted upgrading a camera, because I do my research, I know what I shoot, I know what I need.



Sep 20, 2017 at 09:13 PM
Mashuto
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


Mikehit wrote:
So my comment was along the lines of whether those very vocal critics will acknowledge that the Canon sensor actually has strengths that the Sony do not. AKA 'DR is not everything'.


I obviously can't speak for everyone, but for me personally DR was never "everything". But I was also never unhappy with the color rendition or ISO performance of the 6D, the one area I found lacking (especially knowing what else is out there) was DR. And obviously DR is important to a lot of people.

I just have seen a lot of people that seem to think that anyone who complains about DR somehow also thinks the entire camera is trash. Which again, for me at least just couldnt be farther from the truth. But DR is an important enough factor to influence my purchasing decision.

Anyways, I think this has beaten about to death at this point and I am guessing that purchasing decisions have already been made and this review probably only confirms what most people already thought one way or another.



Sep 20, 2017 at 10:55 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon 6D Mark II DXOMark Sensor Review


I would have thought by now that it is well established that DR-wise, the 6D2 is a step sideways, or even backward compared to the 6D and even newer cameras like the $550 baby rebel, and AF-wise packing all the AF points in the same area as the original 11 isn't exactly evolutionary, but in every other sense the 6D2 is a win.

Strange that even today, some are attacking those that want DR to be better and are disappointed? It is pretty easy, either the 6D2 will deliver what you need/want, or it won't and neither side should belittle or internet-ally assault the other in relation to camera choice, within the Canon family or across manufacturers.

It seems we still have some that want to pull the Jedi mind trick and wave their hands saying "the 6D2 has no deficiencies". Fortunately I am Toydarian, so these don't work on me. If the camera does wonders for you, great, it won't be the camera of choice for others, and that is okay too, no need to get your knickers in a knot.

At least it will be interesting to see what Canon pulls on the next couple releases based on market reaction to the 6D2. Since the 6D2 didn't improve DR or go to the new sensor, still has 1/4000th shutter, doesn't have 4K video, or add other options some hoped for, let's see if the same recipe is used for the 90D, 7D3, etc My disappointment with the SL2 is that it has the same dated AF from the past decade or so it seems. Everything else is nice and works very well, but we could have at least seen the 2009 7D AF in this body if nothing else. So not all is well with that release this round either.



Sep 20, 2017 at 10:59 PM
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