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Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice
  
 
scott_sauer
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Hi,
I do not get an opportunity to post here often but still keep up with things by lurking sometimes.

I have been using a Pentax 645Z for some time and love the system, however it has a couple of major issues which they have overlooked, mainly an electronic first curtain shutter. Also, most of my images are taken while I am travelling and the weight of the system is becoming a bit much.

The lack of an electronic first curtain shutter is a real killer, especially shooting tele landscapes from 80mm to 300mm with the danger shutter speeds of 1/15 up to 1/200, even with mirror lockup and perfect technique on the Z it still bites you.

So I recently purchased a 5DmkIV with a 16-35/4L IS for my interior images that I need to take for my home cinema business and the camera is fantastic. Forget all of the reviews from haters, the camera is very very good. The operability compared to the Nikon and Sony just can't be compared, plus the ergonomics are superior in my view.

My recent holiday to the USA I visited the grand canyon and while the 645Z with 2 lenses was manageable, I tested both the 5DmkIV and a friends 5DsR and both performed very well.

However, the letdown is the lenses. Coming from medium format, my 2 main lenses are excellent, offering sharpness across the entire frame. The 16-35 f4L is a great lens, but really does fall apart in the outer sides. I also purchased a 70-300L and it is good but not across the entire frame.

So if I am to make a switch and move away from the Pentax, I will use my 5DmkIV and also wait for the 5DsRmkII to come out and in the meantime may purchase an 80D. I don't usually shoot wider than 24mm and I shoot a lot of my landscape images at short tele lengths, such as 65mm up to 135mm.

I am thinking that for covering all my bases for both general travel plus dedicated landscape photography I may pick up the following lenses, but need all your advice please.

TS-E 24mm mkII
TS-E 50mm Macro
TS-E 90mm Macro
24-70/2.8L
70-200 (maybe the F/4L IS if its as good as the f/2.8)

Keep in mind, I am looking at these lenses for a future 50-60mp body as I am after excellent performance across the frame. I am open to other offerings such as Zeiss, Sigma etc but I think to get the performance that I am getting with the MF I will need prime lenses. I have included the TS-E lenses in there because I do like to do simple single row pano shots and these make that easy.

Any and all input welcome. Thanks, Scott



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:21 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


I think you need to get your 16-35IS checked, they simply don't "fall apart in the outer sides". The corners of the lens are remarkably good.

The versatility of the huge Canon lens series would be the thing I would be looking forward to most coming from medium format. Some of the lenses you mention are very new and largely untested but the others should do you very well.

You may want to try out the DLO feature of the Canon DPP software, which is is useful for ultimate sharpness.



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:31 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Hi!

Welcome to the Canon forum!

Zoom lenses are tricky to recommend, because the performance varies with focal length and there is also copy variation affecting centering like on the 24-70 2.8 L II.
If you are not completely satisfied with the edges of the 16-35 f4 L IS, I recommend getting a couple of primes in the midrange, as the 24-70 2.8 won't be any better.

Try out the 50 mm f/1.8 STM. It is really excellent stopped down.

The old 90 mm TS-E is really excellent across the frame stopped down and if you don't use the tilt/shift. As a pure prime lens it is smaller and cheaper than the new version.

For the longer zooms, the 70-200 F4 L IS is better than the 70-300 L and there is little point in getting the 2.8 version over it for travel and landscape.

My experience is from the 5DS R.


Edited on Sep 19, 2017 at 07:38 AM · View previous versions



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:37 AM
Milan Hutera
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Welcome to the land of Canon, where the voice of frustrated few echo like thunders during the monsoon season, but most of us happily (for the most part...) just take the damn photos.

Out of the lenses you're considering, if you want to take the zoom route, the 24-70 L II and 70-200 L IS II will give you the sharpest results. 24-70 is still regardes as the best in class by any manufacturer and 70-200 L IS II (a design introduced 8 years ago) was only recently matched by Nikon (although that came with a huge ergonomics penalty by moving the zoom ring to the front of the lens) and perhaps Sony. 70-200 is my bread and butter lens and the difference between it and older models is very visible. I am currently considering upgrading to 24-70 L II as the older version had some problems with internal construction that led many of the copies out of calibration for no reason. I've had it fixed two years ago but the problems seem to be back... 70-200 f4 L IS also has very good reputation, however, there seem to be a performance penalty at minimum focus distance.

TS-E 24mm is regarded as being very very good (I'm sure many who own it will cocur), while the other TS-E's you mention were only introduced last week, so virtually no hands on samples or reviews exist yet.



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:37 AM
johnctharp
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Three comments:
1. Are you sure you're shooting the 16-35/4L at an aperture that's wide enough to get everything in focus? If you're sure, you might want to try another copy/get Canon to look at yours. This is a class-leading lens.
2. You probably mean the 24-70/2.8L II, which is the current version
3. Use Canon's DPP software with DLO for ultimate sharpness. This cannot be overstated, which is why I'm repeating it. Many RAW converters do a great job, but Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer function can get the most out of your Canon lenses.



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:39 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Yes the 16-35 F4 L IS is a good zoom lens, but it is not the forever f/8 prime remover for 60 - 120 MP cameras at all focal lengths.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=949&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=3&LensComp=994&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=6

The sweet spot is around 20 mm:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=949&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=3&LensComp=997&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=4



Sep 19, 2017 at 07:58 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


I think considering it's a zoom AND it has IS the 16-35IS holds up really well against an expensive L prime


Sep 19, 2017 at 08:42 AM
scott_sauer
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Thanks.

I will do some tests with my 16-35 and see how it comes out. In Australia, if you tell your local camera supplier that you think you have a defective lens, they look at you like you are joking. When I purchased the 16-35 I already received one defective lens that was clearly soft on one side and then received this lens which was much better, but time and use has had me wanting more from it.

The 70-200/2.8IS is large and heavy, but so is a TSE90 and a 70-200/4IS combined. Also, a bit of extra mass can make a difference on a tripod for precise work.

And yes, I was referring to the 24-70/2.8 II.

Maybe I could test out the 24-70II and the 70-200II and maybe make a kit from those and add in the TSE 24mmII for the times that I would need that.

I must be honest, I do enjoy working with zoom lenses as they offer fast working flexibility when the light is changing, plus changing lenses in heavy wind is a pain.



Sep 19, 2017 at 08:53 AM
scott_sauer
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


johnctharp wrote:
3. Use Canon's DPP software with DLO for ultimate sharpness. This cannot be overstated, which is why I'm repeating it. Many RAW converters do a great job, but Canon's Digital Lens Optimizer function can get the most out of your Canon lenses.


So what is your workflow if using DPP. Do you import into DPP then move into Lightroom or PS?



Sep 19, 2017 at 08:54 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


FYI my first 16-35IS wasn't right either. Sounds like you have a duff one as they really are very good.


Sep 19, 2017 at 08:55 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



alundeb
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


scott_sauer wrote:
The 70-200/2.8IS is large and heavy, but so is a TSE90 and a 70-200/4IS combined. Also, a bit of extra mass can make a difference on a tripod for precise work.



I should add that I don't find it necessary to carry the TS-E 90 along with a 70-200 mm lens. I use it as a gap filler if I carry the 100-400 II instead of a 70-200 or not any long zoom at all.



Sep 19, 2017 at 09:01 AM
johnctharp
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


scott_sauer wrote:
So what is your workflow if using DPP. Do you import into DPP then move into Lightroom or PS?


Yup. You'll be outputting a TIFF, but mostly, do as little as you can outside of lens corrections in DPP.

It's slow if you need to do dozens or hundreds of images, but when you have that handful that you really want to pop? Only takes a few minutes.



Sep 19, 2017 at 09:36 AM
garydavidjones
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Check out 6D2 with STM & nano lenses for video. Excellent smooth
operation. One of unheralded attributes of the much maligned 6D2.
Plan to use preceding on 31-day cruise around Cape Horn in December.



Sep 19, 2017 at 10:09 AM
melcat
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


scott_sauer wrote:
However, the letdown is the lenses. Coming from medium format, my 2 main lenses are excellent, offering sharpness across the entire frame. The 16-35 f4L is a great lens, but really does fall apart in the outer sides.


Are you using the IS? My experience with this lens is that the IS does affect the sharpness, to the point that I won't use IS at all with it and have not yet sold my 16–35mm f/2.8 II.

If I turn IS off, it's sharp from f/8 and from f/11 the terrible vignetting is tolerable but not gone. It does have less field curvature than the f/2.8 II, which I used for a long time, but it's still not completely flat; as someone else suggested, that might be a cause of your problems.

No doubt I'm going to get piled on here for criticising such a well-regarded lens, but IMO the reason it's well regarded is that the Canon lenses it replaces were so dreadful.

I looked at your posting history and it appears you nearly bought the Zeiss 15mm instead. The old non-weathersealed version of that lens can now be had quite cheaply. I haven't used it, but it's something to consider.

TS-E 24mm mkII

This is one of my more well-used lenses and it's very sharp unshifted. Fully shifted, it's very soft in the corners. With moderate shift, it's OK but not stunning. I think this makes it less suitable for your projected purposes of panoramas. For normal landscape use very often the soft corners are just sky and it doesn't matter too much (but the edges are also soft on full vertical shift in porrait orientation, e,.g,. a tower on a building).

TS-E 50mm Macro
TS-E 90mm Macro


Probably no-one here can give you genuine advice because those two have only just been announced. They're certainly not available in Australia. However, if I were putting together a Canon system from scratch I'd probably buy both of them sight unseen.

70-200 (maybe the F/4L IS if its as good as the f/2.8)

I have the 70–200mm f/4 IS and this one is very sharp, with or without IS, and with very little vignetting even wide open.

In Australia, if you tell your local camera supplier that you think you have a defective lens, they look at you like you are joking.

It depends where you go. I know of one dealer who used to allow customers to test and cherry-pick lenses; I know this because he told me the lens I was about to buy, which I know to be excellent, was someone else's reject! Another dealer, Ted's, allows 14-day no-questions-asked exchange; this is actually why I avoid Ted's because my own experience with Canon L lenses is that I've never had a "bad copy".



Sep 19, 2017 at 11:26 AM
Ernie Aubert
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Well, I've had bad copies of Canon L lenses - multiple. Always got them replaced with good ones, though.

If you can live with manual focus primes, Zeiss!



Sep 19, 2017 at 01:23 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Ernie Aubert wrote:
Well, I've had bad copies of Canon L lenses - multiple. Always got them replaced with good ones, though.



Me too, brand new 17-40L, 24-105L and 16-35IS all had to be replaced because there was something not right.



Sep 19, 2017 at 01:28 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


A lot to respond to here, but I have some background that might be relevant — or at least I hope so!

It seems to me that, given you are someone who feels that the miniMF 50MP sensor is important to your photography, the 5DsR could be a better substitute for the Pentax 645z than than 5D4. This is perhaps even more so if you prefer the 4:3 aspect ration (as I do) of the miniMF system, as you'll crop off a bit (about 1/9 of the pixels) from the sides of the DSLR frame to achieve that.

As to whether to wait for a rumored 5DsRII, you'll have to make the call on that one. The purported increase in MP from 51 to 60 is not significant, and you'll have to decide a) how long to wait, b) how much to believe, and c) whether the other features (assuming the vague rumors are true) are significant.

I'm a bit surprised at your comment about the corners of the Canon 16-35mm f/4 — that it "falls apart" in the corners That is not my experience with this lens at all. It is actually quite good across the frame, at all apertures but particularly at typical FF landscape apertures. More here: https://www.gdanmitchell.com/2014/07/14/canon-ef-16-35mm-f4-l-is-first-thoughts

(Early on there apparently were a few 16-35 f/4 lenses that were inconsistent in the corners. Mine was and is great, but a colleague who also bought one at the same time found that some corners were sharp and others were not. He returned it and the replacement is excellent. There are also stories that Canon — and likely other manufacturers — have a very hard, if not impossible, time adjusting out of adjustment ultra wide zooms, for several reasons including some technical ones related to angle of view and the size of focus targets.)

The 70-300mm lens isn't bad, but it also isn't close to Canon's best telephoto zoom. I have both (long story) the 70-200mm f/4L IS and the most recent 70-200mm f/2.8L IS, and these are both excellent lenses that match up well with the sensor resolution of the 5DsR. Of the two, you might make a case that the f/2.8 is slightly better in some ways — such as wide open and minimum focus distance — but, again, for typical landscape use they are very close. (I use the f/2.8 when weight isn't an issue, but I happily carry the f/4 when it is.)

I can't comment on the Canon TS lenses, as I don't use them.

However, you might consider what some of us do — use the Mirex TS adapter with medium format (Pentax!) zoom lenses. I don't use TS functionality much, but I do use a Pentax 80-160mm zoom with the Mirex adapter on my 5DsR for a few subjects, and it is very good.

The 24-70mm f/2.8 is a very solid lens, too. Another option, should you be concerned about size/weight is the 24-70mm f/4.

All of these are excellent lenses. They aren't identical, but any of them will permit you to produce very high resolution images on the 5DsR that can be printed quite large.

I have also been intrigued by the miniMF cameras, both the 645z and the Fujifilm GFX, but for reasons similar to yours I have so far decided not to go there. The high resolution full frame sensors (from Canon and others) already provide very high quality image files, and the lens options for full frame are much more diverse, smaller, lighter, and often less expensive. Frankly, no one is going to notice a difference between 30" x 40" prints that come from the Pentax 645z and the 5DsR or equivalent.

Finally, as I think you already know, the Canon implementation of live view is very powerful for tripod-based landscape photography.

Good luck,

Dan

scott_sauer wrote:
Hi,
I do not get an opportunity to post here often but still keep up with things by lurking sometimes.

I have been using a Pentax 645Z for some time and love the system, however it has a couple of major issues which they have overlooked, mainly an electronic first curtain shutter. Also, most of my images are taken while I am travelling and the weight of the system is becoming a bit much.

The lack of an electronic first curtain shutter is a real killer, especially shooting tele landscapes from 80mm to 300mm with the danger shutter speeds of 1/15 up to
...Show more



Sep 19, 2017 at 02:50 PM
scott_sauer
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


So I did some testing with my 16-35 today and at closer focussing distances I am getting nice even sharp performance across the frame, so I think the lens is fine.

Where I am seeing it break down on the sides is at infinity for distant landscapes at 16mm. I think there may be some field curvature at play here.

Can anybody comment on their usage at infinity on this lens at 16mm? I think by the look of it that the outer edges of the frame are coming forward as things up closer than infinity are sharper than trees at infinity.

As for the other lenses. I think that perhaps I will try the 24-70/2.8II and the 70-200mm variants. Then I will also look into the new 90mm TSE when it comes out as I think that the 50mm may get little use, based on previous images I have taken.



Sep 20, 2017 at 08:11 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


scott_sauer wrote:
So I did some testing with my 16-35 today and at closer focussing distances I am getting nice even sharp performance across the frame, so I think the lens is fine.

Where I am seeing it break down on the sides is at infinity for distant landscapes at 16mm. I think there may be some field curvature at play here.

Can anybody comment on their usage at infinity on this lens at 16mm? I think by the look of it that the outer edges of the frame are coming forward as things up closer than infinity are sharper than trees at infinity.
...Show more

See the article I posted links to earlier in this thread. Not "at" infinity , but close to it.

Your experience with the lens is atypical.



Sep 20, 2017 at 03:14 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Possible move from Pentax MF 645z to Canon - need advice


Canon's new T/S offerings are expected to be outstanding and I'm looking forward to them. However, I don't know if getting them for the purpose of mostly panos is money well spent. The Really Right Stuff pano rails work well for the purpose. To me, the T/S lenses have two primary uses: adjusting depth of field with Tilt, and perspective correction with Shift (both for architecture and landscape). The two movements can be, and are, often combined.

Another set of lenses to consider is the Zeiss primes. Optically, most items in the Zeiss catalogue are superlative. Once you have used that class of glass it is hard to go back to mediocrity. In my work, I include Zeiss primes with the best of the Canon zooms. Of course, the Zeiss are manual focus only, and you have to decide whether that fits with your working style and needs. Some of them are great bargains right now as Zeiss has moved to the Milvus line. For instance, the original ZE 135 APO is currently on offer at an unbelievable price at BH.




scott_sauer wrote:
Hi,
I do not get an opportunity to post here often but still keep up with things by lurking sometimes.

I have been using a Pentax 645Z for some time and love the system, however it has a couple of major issues which they have overlooked, mainly an electronic first curtain shutter. Also, most of my images are taken while I am travelling and the weight of the system is becoming a bit much.

The lack of an electronic first curtain shutter is a real killer, especially shooting tele landscapes from 80mm to 300mm with the danger shutter speeds of 1/15 up to
...Show more




Sep 20, 2017 at 08:32 PM







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