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RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


I just came back from a wedding, where the photographer left before 1st dance to go shoot another gig.

I overheard the photographer telling the bride "that's what you paid me for" ... but, I don't know the context. They hugged and it seemed amicable as the photographer departed.

The father of the bride later told me that the bride was upset by the departure, but again, no details. The father of the bride (a friend of a friend) asked me if I could take some pics of the cake cutting, 1st dance, father- daughter dance, etc.

Unfortunately, this was in a dimly lit interior, and I was not carrying any flash, so I'm not holding my breath on the outcomes, but I gave it my best under the circumstances. It had been an outdoor ceremony and I only planned to take a few snaps (since I already knew they had a photographer covering) while outside (i.e. unprepared for interior work).

Any thoughts that you guys might offer regarding quality / quantity of pics that would seem appropriate to provide. Normally, I cull hard ... yet, with this being a "once in a lifetime" scenario, I'm a little uncertain if I will cull hard and only give a handful of pics, or if I will relax my standards and give them some of those "lesser quality" images also (since I was "only a guest") as mementos.

I do believe in the premise that you are only as good as your work reveals you to be, so I'd prefer to not have any "low standards" work out there. OTOH, they are the only shots available. Do I get creative with them, or just provide them as recordings only. And what, if any / some / none does this impact with the "other photographer"? Do I keep my nose out of it, or am I now part of it.

It's been more than 20 years since I shot my last wedding, so I certainly don't have a "wedding photographer" shingle out there these days. That to me, leaves me merely as a guest, even though I did take on the role of "next man up" to perform as their photographer for the remainder of the event. Just wondering what some diff thoughts on the matter might be as I try to figure out what to provide them (and how much work in doing so).

On one hand, I know I shot hand-cuffed. On the other hand ... I'm all they got.

When I went to shoot the first shot of the cake, the bride told me that she (the bride) had "failed". I responded by telling her that she didn't fail (I can only assume that she meant she may have misunderstood the terms she had with the other photographer), that she couldn't fail, as she was the bride. Now, I just want to come through for them, but I don't want to put my name on something that I normally would not do.


You thoughts are appreciated.


BTW ... I've already been handsomely paid for my services with some delicious "apple pie" beverage.

Edited on Sep 17, 2017 at 11:52 PM · View previous versions



Sep 17, 2017 at 03:28 AM
Depth of Feel
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Thats awesome that you were there to help. Sounds like you had your head on great. Give then everything you think they might want, err on too much. If you want to get creative with the editing make sure to give them normally edited ' alongside it as editing trends change so fast.

As for the Bride and photographer. A lot of togs sell 6 hour packages and less. Ive had a handful of clients who live in their own world and wont hear you no matter what. But usually if the Bride doesnt understand the details of the package thats on the photographer. In your situation it sounds like she knew but was hoping for the "extra mile" to equal another 4 hours, or the photographer poorly communicated it.

As for booking two weddings in the same day. That just sets you up for situations like this if the Bride decides to add time on the day of. You cant serve a client if you have other commitments that day. I've had weddings altered last minute and then your up a creek if you cant flex with it.



Sep 17, 2017 at 04:01 AM
glort
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)



Firstly I'd not get too much into the normal wedding photographer " Only I know what a good picture is and won't let anything out that isn't up to my perfectionist standards lest word get out and my career ruined and family name soiled for generations to come" mentality.

If a pic is substandard crap plain and simple, obviously you don't give it to them. If it's a judgement call, then your judgement is probably going to be a lot more fussy and technically based than theirs so they will think it's great. Remember, they will be looking at content 90% and technical 10%. At best.
I'm sure they much rather have something that isn't as perfect as you or even they would like, but a memento of the moment than nothing at all.

Overall, Keep in mind the situation and let the standards match that. You did what you could, it's this or nothing. I think you'll find they will be stoked with whatever you give them.


As for the shooter leaving, Meh.
I used to offer limited coverage's and had people book me for them all the time.
It was very clear what the coverege was although rather than hard set hours so much, I worked more on the coverage was a posed cake cutting and bridal waltz when we arrived at the reception and I would leave before they were introduced.
Many times I stayed and did the entrance and then left.
Wasn't really the time I was concerned about, it was the boredom that followed after this time.

I never really had a problem with the limited coverages. I did get asked to stay many times, some times I could, some I could not. I was always VERY clear on what the coverage included, it was plainly stated on the contract and I made sure there was no ambiguity.
Often the ones that wanted limited coverage were trying to save a buck and then on the day they or the parents had the Epiphany and wanted you longer. I never felt bad If I couldn't stay, they had been well informed of what they would and would not get, i'm not putting off other work in case they have a change of mind.

In some states here, it is unusual for the shooter to stay the whole reception anyway and they usually do the posed cake cutting and waltz then go. I know in the UK years ago if not now, it's the same there too.

Any other service would book extra work based upon what the client ordered, if they had other work and the clients wanted longer, sorry, can't do it.
I do know some people play on this as well and have had that. Limited booking then expect you to stay longer or offer you an amount to stay longer less than the full coverage would have cost. Certain cultures here are renowned for it.

One of the reasons I even offered limited coverage's was so I COULD do other work to allow me to make up the hours and income for a full day. Once I am committed to someone else, sorry, I have fulfilled my role to you, now I have to do what the other people have paid and are relying on me for.

If people were funny about me going, I'd simply say you'd be upset if I didn't turn up after you booked and paid me, for the time you wanted me, so would these people. Bye!

Next time they get married, they might not make the same mistake.



Sep 17, 2017 at 07:30 AM
ZachOly
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Batch apply your standard preset, add a noise reduction cocktail, edit a few in B&W, export and move on.

No need to overthink this any further.



Sep 17, 2017 at 10:49 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


glort wrote:
Next time they get married, they might not make the same mistake.


Kinda funny ... this is sorta the second time (first was the courthouse variety) as it was the public ceremony / renewal of vows / reception.

Thanks guys. That helps with my head a bit. Since cultural / societal "norms" do change, I was a bit put off by the departure of the photographer, but if packages are being offered by T&M (vs. full coverage contract), then I understand. Although, the photographer spent about an 1 1/2 hours after the ceremony shooting outside. Seems like she chewed up all her time shooting outside while the guests sat around waiting.

She took zero shots inside. Almost seemed like she didn't want to come inside. Not sure if she was a GWAC (attire might suggest such), or just local area (small rural) norms apply.

As I'm (guessing) trying to piece this together in my head, maybe the bride knew she was getting a set amount of hours worth of coverage, but had a different expectation of how that time would be used. Hopefully, she'll have awesome pics from the outdoor stuff.

I guess (honesty here @ personal pride) I'm feeling a bit uneasy about putting my stuff in the dark against hers in the light. I need to get past that and get my head on straight for working these.

As to batch processing ... that would be fine, except I went the AWB route (situational decision) rather than a fixed WB.

I guess my question kind boils down to something like this ... how many different "1st dance" images is customary. By that, I mean I used to shoot two rolls of 36 and build a book of 25-30 8x10's as a delivered product back in the day (80's). Today ... stories of 1,000's of images being shot suggests that the "norms" have changed.

Kinda funny, too ... some other guests were getting ready to take pictures of the cake cutting with P&S when I got there. The bride told them I was the "professional photographer" ... well, that was a very long time ago. So, I'm wishing to deliver to such a standard, but just not sure how close I'll come. Okay, maybe I'm pandering for a some sympathy from real pro's out there ... what can I say.

One thing that I will say came out of this, is that I made a couple new friends yesterday. I just hope I do some good stuff. Some of the chimps looked okay, but my experience with high ISO NR isn't very good. And we all know that what looks good on a 3" screen doesn't translate to what we see when we open things up. I haven't looked at the actual files yet ... I'm skeered.

I've got DPP4 and CS6 at my disposal ... any good advice regarding NR approach would be certainly welcome.

Thanks for indulging my ramblings here. Just some "uncomfortable" territory for me here atm, and the sharing / moral support helps me get my head on straight to get over the "uncomfortable" part. I'm wanting to provide a gold standard, but I know that bronze may have to do.






Sep 17, 2017 at 01:10 PM
LeeSimms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


A lot of numbers on wedding day. Food for 40 or 400? Bridesmaids bouquets for 2 or 6? Photography for 10 hours or 3? Not everyone has a head for those kinds of numbers.

The NR is Lightroom is pretty good though Noiseware is my fav.

As for number of photos, one is better than none.



Sep 17, 2017 at 02:56 PM
level1photog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


This happened to me not too long ago. I attended as a guest and the photographers left before the first dance and cake cutting, and some table pictures. The bride asked me to shot to shoot those segments but I did not have my usual wedding gears. I'm glad I had a fast prime (Sigma 85 1.4 Art) and on camera flash to bounce.

It came out pretty decent but not something I want to display on my website. I delivered the works and they were thrill. I think they appreciate what you can deliver under the circumstances.



Sep 17, 2017 at 03:21 PM
 

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Ziffl3
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Not knowing the full situation withstanding....

Any bride is going to be thrilled getting images for free....

I personally don't shoot weddings with a limited coverage.
for me... it feels like i did not cover the 'wedding'.

I do shoot small weddings that are only 2-3 hours in length.... this includes a short 1 hour reception.


As far as getting doubled book .... that is why you have associates. Or you work with several top level lead shooters and expand your business brand.

-Mark



Sep 17, 2017 at 03:51 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Thanks again,

Noiseware ... not familiar, will look into it, thanks.

I guess it's time to open up the files and see what the keeper rate looks like.

I'll post a pic or two after I find the more worthy ones.

Thanks.



Edited on Sep 17, 2017 at 11:49 PM · View previous versions



Sep 17, 2017 at 10:05 PM
glort
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


ZachOly wrote:
No need to overthink this any further.


I think this is the key point here.

I have been in the same situation a few times. When someone comes rushing up and says " Did you bring your camera?" (Even when it's over your shoulder) you have a fair Idea what's coming next.

At that point the situation is a total loss save for those wonderful, incredible, professional standard phone pics I always hear so much about but have yet to see anything like what they are made out to be first hand. Whatever you do to help those in the ship is a Bonus from there.

And again, as shooters we need to pull our heads out of our lofty arses and forget about all the technical crap we wank on about and realise the standard of quality and ultimate satisfaction of the client is not the same as ours. If ever there is a case where we are shooting for the client rather than ourselves, this is it.

Rusty, It's done. You did your best whether the shots are prizewinners or crap. As I say, there is a big difference between an excuse an a reason and if the shots are not what you want, then that's because of very clear reasons. The race driver does not go to the track to watch, get asked to drive his own car and would expect to win.

And one thing I was taught early on in my days and I see it everywhere now not just in photography..... " If you make a mistake, call it art!"
And how true that rings with so much stuff now that is slapped together, called designer or " bespoke" and flogged off for a fortune despite it being ugly and having no artistic merit whatso ever.

As far as shot numbers, I personally wouldn't have a clue. I do what I can, give them what is decent and not 23 Copys of the self same image ( which I don't take in the first place) and that's it. What ever you give them they will just pick the best ones they like and that will be it. They won't sit round counting how many of this or how many of that and I'd suggest you shouldn't bother either.
Give them whatever you have that's not a clanger and that's it.



Sep 17, 2017 at 11:44 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Thanks ... that helps a lot (race car / done @ did your best)

I think I got this now.

Here's the first one ... with some help from NR, down-rezzing, and some coaxing in PS.





  Canon EOS 6D Mark II    50-100mm F1.8 DC HSM | Art 016 lens    91mm    f/2.8    1/100s    3200 ISO    -0.7 EV  




Sep 17, 2017 at 11:49 PM
J Knight
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Looks great. Clearly you have nothing to worry about if they all come out this well.

It was really kind of you to help these people out with some extra images, they will be so pleased.



Sep 19, 2017 at 05:02 PM
glort
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)



Someone stepped up to save my arse and delivered Pics like that, I'd be bloody happy.

I think there is a lot of margin there you can come down from and they are still going to be stoked.

I think you might be a bit of a worry wart for nothing mate.



Sep 19, 2017 at 11:08 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · No pics ... just seeking some input (pic added)


Thanks guys.

Well ... this was my very first time shooting with the 6D2, so I was concerned about what I might encounter on that end, as well as how stinking dark it was (gets even darker yet as thing go to groom / mother & bride / father dances. Bouquet and garter toss ... much less hope for them. By the time that came around, I think I was operating without hardly any window light at all.

I think I'm just gonna tackle one pic at a time to get a "best" from each set (maybe about 5-6 pics total with dedicated DPP4>TIFF>CS6 processing like this one). Beyond that, I'll probably just cull a lot of the others out and batch process the remaining few jpgs. That should give 5-6 printable ones, mixed with some lesser memento ones for snapshot stuff.


Thanks again for all the support.



Sep 20, 2017 at 01:35 AM







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