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Archive 2017 · Tamron 100-400 is coming

  
 
Two23
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


I might be interested. I'm wanting to sell my Nikon 80-400mm AFS and get something smaller, easier to hike mountains with. I'm still leaning towards a 300mm f4P + TC-14, but if the Tamron is really really sharp I could be tempted. Not crazy about the f6.3 though.


Kent in SD



Sep 15, 2017 at 04:36 PM
la puffin
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


CanadaMark wrote:
I wish all the third parties would drop the F6.3 obsession on their big zooms. They definitely have the know-how to do F5.6 (like Canon and Nikon) which is already not that fast.


I think because it's less expensive to produce, keeps the weight down as well as the filter size. Furthermore, for the targeted audience for these, I think f/4 or f/4.5 at 600mm would cause a lot of problems (due to user error, not the lens).



Sep 15, 2017 at 04:47 PM
CanadaMark
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


la puffin wrote:
I think because it's less expensive to produce, keeps the weight down as well as the filter size. Furthermore, for the targeted audience for these, I think f/4 or f/4.5 at 600mm would cause a lot of problems (due to user error, not the lens).


Probably cost - especially since that is typically the primary draw to many of the third party lenses in the first place. Never a bad thing to have more options I guess.



Sep 15, 2017 at 04:51 PM
charles.K
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


This lens looks great but until we see real reviews or in hand it is hard to really comment. The weight is awesome. Just a brief play with the Sigma 100-400 with D850 I realized what a difference the new AF module on the D850 makes. I have noticed this with all my Sigma's 20, 24, 35 and 50 now that the AF is a non issue and is really fast, as fast my Nikons. Best still the face recognition AF and exposure works brilliantly where it could be hit/miss at times on the D810 with the Sigma's.

I am looking forward to this Tamron as the weight is really a bonus. With the options of Sigma/Tamron looking at the total system weight and size of the D850 is negligible.

My focus on this lens would not be BIF, but surf events at the beach where the lighting is bright and almost too harsh.



Sep 15, 2017 at 07:04 PM
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


CanadaMark wrote:
Probably cost - especially since that is typically the primary draw to many of the third party lenses in the first place. Never a bad thing to have more options I guess.


Well, we've seen the new Sigma 500mm f/4 and the sticker shock is still there, Sigma or no Sigma. We all know that once it's past the 100mm FL/aperture ratio, all bets are off.



Sep 16, 2017 at 03:56 AM
technic
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


Ernie Aubert wrote:
So I'm not the only one who's noticed that? And it's not just my copy? I'm glad to know that. It is somewhat disappointing...


Yes, there are some threads about it and although some on the forum strongly deny it, I'm 100% convinced this is just the way it is for the 100-400II. I tested another copy and the result was exactly the same (and several others have confirmed they see the same problems). Just to be sure: if you don't get closer than 2-3 meters distance the various problems (strong spherical abberation leading to 'glow' at wide apertures, strong backfocus AND focus shift) are less visible and likely acceptable for the average user. Most owners of this lens hardly use it near MFD so they probably extrapolate the excellent qualities of the lens at longer distance to 'excellent' MFD performance ;-)

Compared to the old 100-400 Canon increased magnification, but IMHO it isn't worth it and they probably should have kept the old spec. Sigma and Tamron offer less magnification, so it is just a guess if they perform better at comparable magnification. Another issue for me was that the 100-400II has a very short working distance (from subject to front element of the lens) for closeups of dragonflies etc., compared to alternatives like a 2.8/200 or 4/300 prime. This would also be something to look for on the Sigma/Tamron, as it is difficult to determine from the spec.

This is an obvious example where both official specs and the average review is lacking in relevant information.

Sorry for off topic comment ;-)



Sep 16, 2017 at 07:45 AM
CanadaMark
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


Snopchenko wrote:
Well, we've seen the new Sigma 500mm f/4 and the sticker shock is still there, Sigma or no Sigma. We all know that once it's past the 100mm FL/aperture ratio, all bets are off.


Yeah but the Nikon is $10.300, the Sigma is $6000. Pretty huge difference there, sticker shock or not. If you're in the market for either you are prepared to spend a significant chunk of cash, but the Sigma is vastly cheaper.



Sep 16, 2017 at 12:30 PM
Pavel
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


I've always leaned towards Sigma for some reason over Tamron, for reasons that even I don't know the root of but the focus ring being backwards is something I am not going to put up with ever in the future.

One thought however is that while both Sigma and Tamron make excellent lenses in this computer aided manufacturing day - I'd never buy an expensive lens from neither of them. Sigma for sure does not support lenses up to what I think they should and from what I've heard (from a repairman) seven to ten years later the parts for them may no longer be there, while Nikon has parts availability in mind in a much more "professional" way. That is worth it on lenses that are more expensive than some good used cars and which one may want to hold onto for a long time.

That is something to consider I feel. I know it's easy to get the price fever.

Since the rumor is that we can't take the stuff with us, why not suffer in other areas, like the children education and dental work and aim for what we all deserve - the very Nikon best! The same would go for Canon if that were ones choice.

And besides, we get to find out how much our wives really love us, right?



Sep 16, 2017 at 03:17 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


Pavel wrote:
I've always leaned towards Sigma for some reason over Tamron, for reasons that even I don't know the root of but the focus ring being backwards is something I am not going to put up with ever in the future.

One thought however is that while both Sigma and Tamron make excellent lenses in this computer aided manufacturing day - I'd never buy an expensive lens from neither of them. Sigma for sure does not support lenses up to what I think they should and from what I've heard (from a repairman) seven to ten years later the parts for them
...Show more

The Tamron/Sigma 100-400s are not expensive lenses though, at least compared to the Nikkor and Canon f/5.6 similar lenses. Unfortunately I don't expect Tamron to be as good as Sigma but it has that valuable tripod mount ring option. I still don't know what Sigma was thinking.

EBH



Sep 16, 2017 at 03:27 PM
Pavel
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


EB-1 wrote:
The Tamron/Sigma 100-400s are not expensive lenses though, at least compared to the Nikkor and Canon f/5.6 similar lenses. Unfortunately I don't expect Tamron to be as good as Sigma but it has that valuable tripod mount ring option. I still don't know what Sigma was thinking.

EBH


Ah. I was not up on the price of the Tamron, but I guess that makes sense in light of the 6.3 aperture. Up to about two grand I don't worry too much about long term value or repair- especially since MY long term value and repair are a gloomier prospect.



Sep 16, 2017 at 03:31 PM
qc_mountain
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


It is a good thing that Tamron gets a 100-400 out that might force Canon to lower their price on the 100-400II which is on the steep side...


Francois.



Sep 17, 2017 at 06:38 PM
technic
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


qc_mountain wrote:
It is a good thing that Tamron gets a 100-400 out that might force Canon to lower their price on the 100-400II which is on the steep side...

Francois.


IMHO there is zero chance of Canon lowering their price in response to the Sigma/Tamron alternatives.



Sep 18, 2017 at 03:35 AM
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


CanadaMark wrote:
Yeah but the Nikon is $10.300, the Sigma is $6000. Pretty huge difference there, sticker shock or not. If you're in the market for either you are prepared to spend a significant chunk of cash, but the Sigma is vastly cheaper.


Thankfully I am not in the market for any of those, because whether it's $6000 or $10000 makes absolutely no difference for me - it's all so high up that I'll never be able (nor willing) to afford either, even by selling the rest of my gear down to the last Canon lens and making due with a NEX. I can imagine the majority of the shooters are the same. Those using $100 bills to light campfires don't care either, they only want the OEMs and would not want to touch a Sigma / Tamron lens with a ten foot pole, citing all kinds of reasons. But I can very well understand that those who are in the gray zone are welcoming the price differential heartily.

Thankfully the 100-400 niche is a much simpler case. I have one in my sights somewhere down the road (after probably the 45/1.8).



Sep 18, 2017 at 04:51 AM
Greg Lavaty
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


I was pretty happy to read about this announcement from Tamron. I have had the Canon 100-400 IS II for a while and for the past two months have also had the Sigma 100-400 C and after using the two lenses side by side I have decided that for me the Sigma is good enough for me to let go of the Canon. To be clear, the Canon is definitely the superior lens with better AF performance, better IS performance, faster aperture, better build quality... It really is a no compromise lens compared to the Sigma which does have some compromises though for me and my uses are acceptable ones and they do afford a much lower price, a bit more compact size and lighter weight. Those three things do mean something to me. The performance from the Sigma in terms of optics has definitely exceeded my expectations and matches what I am getting from my Canon.

On the close up image quality I was at first a little disappointed with the results I was getting from the Sigma but when I used the Sigma USB Dock to tweak the focus I found that it was way off at 400mm and minimum focusing distance. After I got it dialed in for MFD I am getting much better results for close up shots. I wouldn't say it performs as well as a real macro lens (in fact it most certainly does not) but it is quite respectable in my opinion and will do what I want when it comes to dragonflies and butterflies.

The Tamron lens does offer the optional tripod foot which I wish the Sigma did. I pretty much always use the Sigma hand-held so it isn't a big deal but when I was doing all the microfocus adjust it would have been easier to have the foot since all of that was done from a tripod and mounting the rig from the camera body means the weight is fairly off balance. My sort of solution to the problem was to put a long acra swiss plate on my camera body which allowed me to mount the setup further back making the balance closer to ideal.

Anyway, I think this new Tamron announcement an exciting development.



Sep 18, 2017 at 10:00 AM
technic
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


Greg Lavaty wrote:
On the close up image quality I was at first a little disappointed with the results I was getting from the Sigma but when I used the Sigma USB Dock to tweak the focus I found that it was way off at 400mm and minimum focusing distance. After I got it dialed in for MFD I am getting much better results for close up shots. I wouldn't say it performs as well as a real macro lens (in fact it most certainly does not) but it is quite respectable in my opinion and will do what I want when
...Show more

Interesting, thanks for reporting that. Seems that the Sigma has a similar problem as the Canon regarding AF near MFD, but from what I understand the Sigma allows correcting that without ruining AF accuracy for infinity shots?
I would not expect the same quality for closeup shots of dragonflies etc. as a macro lens, but the Canon 100-400 was just way worse near MFD than all of my other lenses in that range (even the very cheap 55-250STM at 250mm, although that one is just acceptable at MFD also because of almost non-existent IS), due to the 'glow' near wide open plus the effects of back focus and focus shift.

Does the Sigma perform well at MFD/400mm when used near wide open? The Canon improves a lot at f/11, but that is usually not an option for me due to light levels etc. I'm a bit worried about the IS of the Sigma because I always work hand-held (the Canon 100-400 IS is amazing really ...), will be interesting to see how Tamron performs regarding closeup IQ and IS.



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:27 PM
Greg Lavaty
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


With the Sigma USB dock you can enter correction data for four focus distances at four different focal lengths. As I recall you can adjust for 1.6m, 4m, 10m and infinity at 400mm so yes you can correct for both close and infinity. I'm pretty happy with the results though it took a little fooling around to get all the settings figured out. Sigma doesn't seem to offer much information on how they think the focus adjust process should go. I really wish the Sigma Dock and related software had come with a little better documentation.

I understand that this is just a scaled down for web image but these are full-frame shots at 400mm f/6.3 at MFD

http://m5.i.pbase.com/o10/82/193082/1/166214845.nlrDWM9q._MG_1996web.jpg

http://m8.i.pbase.com/o10/82/193082/1/166214838.KQmRi2A9._MG_1236web.jpg



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:43 PM
technic
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


Greg Lavaty wrote:
With the Sigma USB dock you can enter correction data for four focus distances at four different focal lengths. As I recall you can adjust for 1.6m, 4m, 10m and infinity at 400mm so yes you can correct for both close and infinity. I'm pretty happy with the results though it took a little fooling around to get all the settings figured out. Sigma doesn't seem to offer much information on how they think the focus adjust process should go. I really wish the Sigma Dock and related software had come with a little better documentation.

I understand that this
...Show more

Thanks, looks OK but difficult to judge on small images (and because DOF at 400mm f/6.3 is quite small ...). I will wait to see what the Tamron offers (also regarding MFA options) and probably order one of them from a web shop for testing, so I can return within 1-2 weeks if it doesn't perform well at closeup.

It is sad that Canon doesn't have more flexible MFA on their expensive lenses, that would solve at least one of the 100-400II issues near MFD and make it more usable in practice.



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:52 PM
Greg Lavaty
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


http://m9.i.pbase.com/o10/82/193082/1/166229899.UUaCnmgf._MG_1236crop.jpg
Here is an actual pixels crop from the 400mm f/6.3 shot of the Great Blue Heron. This is from a 7D mk2. As you can see it isn’t the performance of a true macro lens but not bad for a general purpose telephoto lens in my opinion.

When I started using the lens and tried shots like this one I was definitely not pleased with the result. The thing that made me think there could be hope was when I started playing around with live view and found that I could get much better results than what I was getting from phase detect AF through the viewfinder.

I also have been playing around more with the OS on the Sigma 100-400C. I had been using “dynamic” and found that it was really struggling at shutter speeds around 1/250 sec to around 1/60 sec or so. I read someone say that the “moderate” option worked better. I have been playing with “moderate” and am getting better results but still find the Canon IS to be significantly better. I have updated the firmware on my Sigma 100-400 C to the latest version by the way.

It will be interesting to see how the Tamron does optically. If the optics of the Sigma weren’t as good as they are I would definitely not consider it over the Canon.



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:54 PM
Greg Lavaty
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


I agree that it is disappointing that Canon doesn't allow for more options in the AFMA area. I would LOVE it if they would come out with something similar to the Sigma USB Dock but I am not holding my breath, Canon still launches new camera bodies without AFMA.


Sep 18, 2017 at 12:56 PM
Robin Smith
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Tamron 100-400 is coming


One could regard the necessity of an USB dock as an admission of failure.


Sep 20, 2017 at 03:17 PM
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