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The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!
  
 
jhinkey
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


mogul wrote:
Your m4/3 is 1/4 the size of your FF sensor


1/4 the area, 1/2 scale.




Sep 20, 2017 at 11:46 PM
DavidBM
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


arduluth wrote:
I think of the CV 40/1.4 as sort of the worst case scenario. I don't think we'll see anything worse than this. In terms of wide open sharpness, contrast, and veiling flare it's really not bad - it's definitely a step above the lenses from the 1970 and 80s. Even for the single coated model. Not to say it's without its quirks - the area of sharpness is quite small, among other things.

For me, I think it'd be reasonable to expect decent sharpness in a central zone that's larger than we see with the CV 40/1.4. I also expect it'll
...Show more

Sure it'll likely have a bigger area if sharoness wide open than the c/v 1.4/40. But that thing has basically a tiny dot of central sharpness before it does from modestly soft to very soft. You could double the diameter of wide open sharpness on the 1.4/40 (on Sony) and still not really have a big enough area for flexibility.

I suppose I should clarify what I mean by OK sharpness (which may or may not be what Fred meant). I mean good decent sharpness of the kind you get with a modern lens like the ZA 1.4/35 at its widest aperture.. Fully useaable, but you notice a big improvement as you stop down. I don't mean by OK the hazy thing you get on decent legacy f1.2 lenses. Maybe that's "poor but not useless"?



Sep 21, 2017 at 12:19 AM
sebboh
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jhinkey wrote:
Hmmm . . . my 42.5/1.2 PL is way more than adequate wide open on my 16MP m43 cameras.
I know m43 is 1/2 the sensor size than my A7RII, but if they were able to achieve that level of wide open performance just across the m43 sensor area on my a7RII I'd be very satisfied.


the PL 42.5/1.2 is 2cm longer and .5cm fatter, designed to cover an image circle with half the diameter, and is a much easier to design angle of view.

DavidBM wrote:
Sure it'll likely have a bigger area if sharoness wide open than the c/v 1.4/40. But that thing has basically a tiny dot of central sharpness before it does from modestly soft to very soft. You could double the diameter of wide open sharpness on the 1.4/40 (on Sony) and still not really have a big enough area for flexibility.

I suppose I should clarify what I mean by OK sharpness (which may or may not be what Fred meant). I mean good decent sharpness of the kind you get with a modern lens like the ZA 1.4/35 at its widest
...Show more

i think you guys want a lens that i'm not really interested in. the zm 35/1.4 achieves that already (and then some) and the exposure/bokeh difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4 is like 1/5 a stop on digital.




Sep 21, 2017 at 04:57 AM
DavidBM
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


sebboh wrote:
i think you guys want a lens that i'm not really interested in. the zm 35/1.4 achieves that already (and then some) and the exposure/bokeh difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4 is like 1/5 a stop on digital.



Well, for bokeh purposes I'd expect the full half stop in the centre. Exposure I don't care about - a little extra lens speed doesn't make much difference unless you are doing action photography for clients who insist on low ISO.
And it's a little longer; I've always been fond of 40mm, and often crop 35mm images a bit thus reducing the IQ.

Now neither of these are big differences, and together they aren't huge, but are enough to make me a bit interested. If it was as good as the ZM I'd be in immediately, though I doubt it will. But if it has nicer bokeh (the middle distance bokeh of the ZM was something I never liked, and was part of why I never got one as a "do-it-all" 35 along with the midfield resolution) and is close in sharpness/CA to the ZM I'm also in.



Sep 21, 2017 at 05:37 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
Sure it'll likely have a bigger area if sharoness wide open than the c/v 1.4/40. But that thing has basically a tiny dot of central sharpness before it does from modestly soft to very soft. You could double the diameter of wide open sharpness on the 1.4/40 (on Sony) and still not really have a big enough area for flexibility.

I suppose I should clarify what I mean by OK sharpness (which may or may not be what Fred meant). I mean good decent sharpness of the kind you get with a modern lens like the ZA 1.4/35 at its widest
...Show more

David,

I think you can define sharpness with MTFs quite nicely. Modern Zeiss lenses wide open at f/1/4 typically have about 90%, 80%, and 60% contrast at 10 lp/mm, 20 lp/mm, and 40 lp/mm respectively that extends in a 10mm radius from the centre of the frame. Otus lenses (particularly the 55) are a bit better and the Milvus 50 is just a bit worse, but to me this defines a modern lens. The Leica 28 lux, 35 lux and 50 lux pretty much show this pattern as well but tend to be a little sharper in the very centre (although the 35 FLE isn't) and the performance decreases a bit as it goes out further in the frame.
In contrast to what I would call these modern lenses older lenses like the Leica R 80 f1/4, the Zeiss C/Y 85 f/1.4, the Zeiss C/Y 50 f/1.4 and others wide open at f/1.4 have MTFs pretty close to 80%, 60%, and 30% contrast at 10 lp/mm, 20 lp/mm, and 40 lp/mm respectively and depending on the lens this sometimes even drops a bit as you move away from the centre. These lenses are all noticeably softer than the modern lenses.
It is too bad that Voigtlander doesn't publish MTFs and certainly not measured ones, because then we would know. I would expect this lens to have MTFs with something like 80%, 70%, and 40% contrast at the 10, 20, and 40 lp/mm at best. This is about what the Zeiss ZE/ZF (i.e. Classic) 35 f/1.4 had. It might be a tad worse and this centre sharpness may not extend all the way to make a 10mm radius, but I expect it to be in that league. Not as sharp as modern lenses and not as soft as come of the older lenses that still have have an interesting look wide open.



Sep 21, 2017 at 05:59 AM
sebboh
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
Well, for bokeh purposes I'd expect the full half stop in the centre. Exposure I don't care about - a little extra lens speed doesn't make much difference unless you are doing action photography for clients who insist on low ISO.
And it's a little longer; I've always been fond of 40mm, and often crop 35mm images a bit thus reducing the IQ.

Now neither of these are big differences, and together they aren't huge, but are enough to make me a bit interested. If it was as good as the ZM I'd be in immediately, though I doubt it will. But
...Show more

fwiw, most manufacturers define f/1.2 as 1/3 a stop faster than f/1.4.



Sep 21, 2017 at 06:21 AM
DavidBM
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


sebboh wrote:
fwiw, most manufacturers define f/1.2 as 1/3 a stop faster than f/1.4.


Indeed some do. It's in-between.
f1.1892 is a half stop less than f1.4142

I've seen arguments about whether to round or truncate or otherwise squeeze these numbers into the conventional f-stop scale.

So some say half stop.

But of course there's not much in it; the overall rendering will be much more important than the bur intensity that's down to f-stop....



Sep 21, 2017 at 06:51 AM
Peter T
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Now available for pre-order at the UK importer Robert White. Same price as the 65, 749.

Not planning to buy one myself (or at least.......... not yet!) and still trying hard to resist the charms of the 65 (this is becoming increasingly difficult though!).



Sep 22, 2017 at 10:03 PM
jhinkey
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


sebboh wrote:
the PL 42.5/1.2 is 2cm longer and .5cm fatter, designed to cover an image circle with half the diameter, and is a much easier to design angle of view.

i think you guys want a lens that i'm not really interested in. the zm 35/1.4 achieves that already (and then some) and the exposure/bokeh difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4 is like 1/5 a stop on digital.



The 42.5/1.2 PL also has OIS and AF stuffed in there, so not really a fair comparison. My point is that it's not impossible to design a 40/1.2 for FX that performs pretty well wide open and excellently stopped down. Is the Voigt 40/1.2 that kind of lens, we'll see. They want something like $1200 for it (same as the 65/2 APO), so it better perform wonderfully at f/1.2 for that kind of price for a non-AF, non-OIS lens.



Sep 22, 2017 at 11:14 PM
jhinkey
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


$1,099 Euros . . . not sure what that means for the price in the US, though a straight conversion is ~$1,300.

Wow, it better be really really good for that price.



Sep 23, 2017 at 05:13 PM
 

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Fred Miranda
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jhinkey wrote:
$1,099 Euros . . . not sure what that means for the price in the US, though a straight conversion is ~$1,300.

Wow, it better be really really good for that price.


How can this lens cost more than the CV 65 APO? I was guessing less than 1k.



Sep 23, 2017 at 05:16 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Peter T wrote:
Now available for pre-order at the UK importer Robert White. Same price as the 65, 749.

Not planning to buy one myself (or at least.......... not yet!) and still trying hard to resist the charms of the 65 (this is becoming increasingly difficult though!).


I just saw that. Same price of 749.
That means the US price could be: $1,059. (More in tune with my guess )



Sep 23, 2017 at 05:21 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Here is a sample wide open from it:

More here: http://www.cosina.co.jp/gallery/iida-40-1_2/







Sep 23, 2017 at 05:44 PM
bjornthun
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jhinkey wrote:
$1,099 Euros . . . not sure what that means for the price in the US, though a straight conversion is ~$1,300.

Wow, it better be really really good for that price.


The Euro price may include German sales tax or VAT, which is at 19%.



Sep 23, 2017 at 05:45 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


In Japan the MRSP of 65/2 is 120000 JPY before tax and 40/1.2 is 135000 JPY. Street prices are closer at 110K and 119K (including 8% tax) at good stores.

For reference the street price of new Nokton 35/1.2 v2 in M-mount is 113K and Loxia 35/2 is 125K yen. So I think 40/1.2 is not overpriced here.



Sep 23, 2017 at 06:45 PM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Like to see US price of 849 myself. It's not a 1059 APO 65


Sep 23, 2017 at 06:57 PM
fsiagian
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


If these lenses are manual focus, why can't voigtlander make them small like rangefinder lenses?


Sep 23, 2017 at 07:06 PM
sebboh
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


fsiagian wrote:
If these lenses are manual focus, why can't voigtlander make them small like rangefinder lenses?


the 40mm is small, compare it to rangefinder f/1.2 lenses.




Sep 23, 2017 at 08:22 PM
sebboh
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Here is a sample wide open from it:

More here: http://www.cosina.co.jp/gallery/iida-40-1_2/


looks too sharp to me. i want more glow.




Sep 23, 2017 at 08:23 PM
fsiagian
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


I see. The 65mm is big though. Thanks for the info.


Sep 23, 2017 at 08:28 PM
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