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The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!
  
 
kaioyang
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p.19 #1 · p.19 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jaybr wrote:
There is a user on DPreview that's compared the Voigtlander FE 40mm f1.2 against the Loxia 35mm f2
He hasn't done a full test, and isn't going to. He's sending the Voigtlander back because it isn't as "sharp" as the Loxia.


I had a look at DPR and I'm wondering where exactly did he focus his test shots. I doubt he was focusing infinity.





Oct 06, 2017 at 08:36 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.19 #2 · p.19 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Even if it's true, it's not far from what's been reported here about the new CV 40/1.2.
Similarly, the Loxia 35/2 sharpens up at mid field by f/4 and the corners by f/5.6 and f/8 on the A7RII.



Oct 06, 2017 at 08:54 PM
DavidBM
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p.19 #3 · p.19 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Added a section on bokeh balls, with two aperture series (for edge balls and central ones) to my rolling review at https://phillipreeve.net/blog/voigtlander-40mm-f1-2-nokton-aspherical-rolling-review/
Largely good news. Surprisingly good control of onion rings, for one thing.



Oct 06, 2017 at 10:30 PM
DavidBM
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p.19 #4 · p.19 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Another update that I haven't made on the review yet.
Flare. Or lack of it.
I can't get the damn thing to flare. I'm sure I'll succeed eventually if the weather cooperates, but it really is impressive in this regard. Would be impressive if it were slow. What a strange mix of properties this lens has! If there flare is as good as my preliminary look suggests, it's starting to look interesting for landscape. I'd rather reduced sharpeness in the corners if I can have better contrast for those shots with extreme back light and lifted shadows.



Oct 06, 2017 at 11:23 PM
kaioyang
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p.19 #5 · p.19 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Thx David for your review. Love it. 👍
As for flares, sunstars go together. How did you find the sunstars?



Oct 06, 2017 at 11:36 PM
DavidBM
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p.19 #6 · p.19 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


kaioyang wrote:
Thx David for your review. Love it. 👍
As for flares, sunstars go together. How did you find the sunstars?


I haven't done controlled sunstar tests yet, but it looks pretty much like any other CV or Zeiss 10 bladed lens: lovely sunstars. But what's extra impressive the lack of flare or artefacts diagonally opposite the sunstar, as you get with the Loxias. That's a preliminary report though: maybe I'll find them.



Oct 06, 2017 at 11:45 PM
DavidBM
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p.19 #7 · p.19 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


A first sunstar and flare aperture series added...


Oct 06, 2017 at 11:59 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.19 #8 · p.19 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
Added a section on bokeh balls, with two aperture series (for edge balls and central ones) to my rolling review at https://phillipreeve.net/blog/voigtlander-40mm-f1-2-nokton-aspherical-rolling-review/
Largely good news. Surprisingly good control of onion rings, for one thing.


David,
Let me start by saying I'm enjoying your review. It's brutally honest and just the way I like it.

However, it's hard for me to see any good news regarding 'onion rings' in specular highlights. IMO, it's a negative at any level.
I agree that this is highly subjective and many shooters don't find it that objectionable though.

Juha posted some more examples for those who have missed it:





CV 40/1.2 wide open






1:1 crop of the image above




Oct 07, 2017 at 12:20 AM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #9 · p.19 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Lemon/ onions. Iím afraid itís off my radar . Just not for my style of shooting. Iíll stay the course with my CV 35 1.7 and PCX.


Oct 07, 2017 at 12:41 AM
twomblywhite
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p.19 #10 · p.19 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
David,
Let me start by saying I'm enjoying your review. It's brutally honest and just the way I like it.

However, it's hard for me to see any good news regarding 'onion rings' in specular highlights. IMO, it's a negative at any level.
I agree that this is highly subjective and many shooters don't find it that objectionable though.

Juha posted some more examples for those who have missed it:


Is it objective and common knowledge among experts that onion rings are caused by the difficulty to create perfectly smooth aspherical elements? And that because this 40/1.2 design contains two aspherics - one in front and another in back - that onion rings are inevitable? I remember reading in the CV 35/1.7 thread that the onion rings are much better (almost non-existent) because there is only one aspheric in back. Some were speculating/hoping that Cosina was able to source smoother molds for these complex pieces of glass but aparently not. Anyway I just find the topic really interesting so curious as to what others think.

I must say I find them pretty distracting. It's too bad because with a lens like this I am really planning on using this aesthetic look a lot for portraits. Really considering going with the CV 35/1.7 ultron instead.



Oct 07, 2017 at 12:50 AM
 

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Fred Miranda
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p.19 #11 · p.19 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


twomblywhite wrote:
Is it objective and common knowledge among experts that onion rings are caused by the difficulty to create perfectly smooth aspherical elements? And that because this 40/1.2 design contains two aspherics - one in front and another in back - that onion rings are inevitable? I remember reading in the CV 35/1.7 thread that the onion rings are much better (almost non-existent) because there is only one aspheric in back. Some were speculating/hoping that Cosina was able to source smoother molds for these complex pieces of glass but maybe not. Anyway I just find the topic really interesting so curious
...Show more

It's the result of aspherical surface molding imperfections. I have speculated that aspherical surfaces towards the rear masks this issue much better (CV 35/1.7 Ultron) but could be wrong about this.
Some companies have advanced molding techniques which makes 'onion ring patterns' almost imperceptible. For instance, would you ever say the FE 85/1.4 GM or FE 50/1.4 ZA's specular highlights have onion rings? Both lenses have "asphericals".
It seems like Sony/Panasonic molding process is groundbreaking and it does not seem Cosina uses such technology just yet.



Oct 07, 2017 at 12:58 AM
DavidBM
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p.19 #12 · p.19 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
David,
Let me start by saying I'm enjoying your review. It's brutally honest and just the way I like it.

However, it's hard for me to see any good news regarding 'onion rings' in specular highlights. IMO, it's a negative at any level.
I agree that this is highly subjective and many shooters don't find it that objectionable though.

Juha posted some more examples for those who have missed it:


Fair enough! I've seen worse, certainly expected worse (but I've seen better like in GM), and at the image level I don't find these too intrusive. But for sure anyone who hates onion rings won't like it (you know I'm at the low end of the scale for onion-ring hating!)







Edited on Oct 07, 2017 at 01:03 AM · View previous versions



Oct 07, 2017 at 12:59 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.19 #13 · p.19 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
Fair enough! I've seen worse (and better like in GM), and at the image level I don't find these too intrusive. But for sure anyone who hates onion rings won't like it (you know I'm at the low end of the scale for onion-ring hating!)


Yes, I remember you are not that sensitive to it and care more about axial color correction.



Oct 07, 2017 at 01:02 AM
DavidBM
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p.19 #14 · p.19 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, I remember you are not that sensitive to it and care more about axial color correction.


Interestingly, though, I think Juha's samples show the onion rings more extremely than mine (though they are clearly apparent in mine): different conditions seem to make onions rings more or less bad.

Axial colour is not great on this lens, though I have seen worse....








Oct 07, 2017 at 01:06 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.19 #15 · p.19 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
Interestingly, though, I think Juha's samples show the onion rings more extremely than mine (though they are clearly apparent in mine): different conditions seem to make onions rings more or less bad.

Axial colour is not great on this lens, though I have seen worse....


Lighting is the culprit I guess. If there is more contrast, the pattern will be more apparent.



Oct 07, 2017 at 01:13 AM
DavidBM
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p.19 #16 · p.19 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Lighting is the culprit I guess. If there is more contrast, the pattern will be more apparent.


That's what you'd think; but mine are LED bulbs in a darkened room: hard to get much more contrast that that! I think the exact distance of the light source to the lens matters too.



Oct 07, 2017 at 01:24 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.19 #17 · p.19 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
That's what you'd think; but mine are LED bulbs in a darkened room: hard to get much more contrast that that! I think the exact distance of the light source to the lens matters too.


Did you notice that outlining on your sample is also more subtle compared to Juha's?
It looks to me that the onion pattern is "scratched" on the lens element and different lighting characteristics will make it more apparent or not.



Oct 07, 2017 at 01:48 AM
jhinkey
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p.19 #18 · p.19 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Well, thanks to the excellent start of a review by David, I think I'm going to pass on the 40/1.2, though f/1.2 is certainly calling my name. I just can't buy a lens that doesn't get fully sharp across the frame stopped down to f/5.6 or f/8, which is what I see. Hopefully the local pro shop will carry these lenses and I can try one out.

Looks like the 35/1.7+5mPCX + 65/2 APO are my future.
These along with the 135/3.4 APO & 300/5.6 ED AI are my wider/shorter tele kit.

The reviews and working opinions of the 40/1.2 are greatly appreciated!



Oct 07, 2017 at 02:32 AM
davewolfs
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p.19 #19 · p.19 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


GMPhotography wrote:
Lemon/ onions. Iím afraid itís off my radar . Just not for my style of shooting. Iíll stay the course with my CV 35 1.7 and PCX.


Silly me was thinking we were gonna get an Arizona wall shoot out. Maybe next time.



Oct 07, 2017 at 02:41 AM
baltmin
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p.19 #20 · p.19 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


I was planning to buy the voigtlander 35mm f1.2 II with the Techart Pro for my a7rII but since the 40 was announced I decided to wait. The 40 sounded like more versatile, smaller and lighter, optimized for Sony and of course a newer lens, which was expected to be better.
Now I am confused. Both lenses have a character, both have their strengths and weaknesses, but what I canít ďforgiveĒ is this bad corner to corner sharpness of the 40 even stopped down. The confusion gets bigger because I think there is no infinity test of the 35 with 100% crops in the web so I canít say how good (or bad) is this lens for landscapes.

Of course there is also the Ultron option but I would rather go for an f1.2-1.4 lens as I already own the sigma 24-35 f2 which is excellent for landscapes. The combination of the 24-35 for landscapes and the 40 f1.2 for environmental portraits and more ďartisticĒ low depth of field photography would sound ideal but if the voigtlander 35 f1.2 is better in corner to corner sharpness maybe it is still the choice for me.
Any opinions? A comparison between the voigtlander 35 and 40 would be very interesting.



Oct 07, 2017 at 07:11 AM
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