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The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!
  
 
Luvwine
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p.18 #1 · p.18 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Looking through the examples Juha posted, and keeping in mind that these are from an A9 and not an A7r or A7rii, the lens seems to have some lovely characteristics--excellent bokeh, good to excellent sharpness, nice sun stars, and a neutral color palette. However, it also has cats eyes, and an abundance of color fringing at larger apertures. From David's early review on Phillip Reeve, it is not a lens that seems ideally suited for landscape. In sum, looks like a really interesting lens, but one that seems a bit more specialized in its applications than say the amazingly versatile 65/2.


Oct 06, 2017 at 03:53 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.18 #2 · p.18 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Thanks Luvwine! For me the lens is working really nicely so far. I don't really shoot landscape and I think it works fine for street and general walk-around and close-ups. I'm also not very sensitive to color fringing, it doesn't bother me much in general. The benefits for my use compared to 65/2 will be the focal length as 40mm is more of a day-to-day generic fl, and the size as it's also nicer to walk around with and to carry around on daily basis.


Oct 06, 2017 at 04:00 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.18 #3 · p.18 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Luvwine wrote:
Looking through the examples Juha posted, and keeping in mind that these are from an A9 and not an A7r or A7rii, the lens seems to have some lovely characteristics--excellent bokeh, good to excellent sharpness, nice sun stars, and a neutral color palette. However, it also has cats eyes, and an abundance of color fringing at larger apertures. From David's early review on Phillip Reeve, it is not a lens that seems ideally suited for landscape. In sum, looks like a really interesting lens, but one that seems a bit more specialized in its applications than say the amazingly versatile
...Show more

I agree with your assessment.
Based on David's samples, I was a bit disappointed by its resolution performance on the A7RII. So, not as versatile as their 65/2 but the good news is that it's capable of gorgeous rendering and similar amount of blur.

Personally, I would have preferred a ported CV 35/1.7 for the Sony E-mount. This lens is absolutely amazing in terms of resolution from wide open and has very nice rendering as well. CV could optimized it for the thickness of the Sony's sensor stack, sparing the need of a PCX, improve its MFD and call it a day!

BTW: Same goes for their 28/2 Ultron.



Oct 06, 2017 at 04:31 PM
Luvwine
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p.18 #4 · p.18 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree with your assessment.
Based on David's samples, I was a bit disappointed by its resolution performance on the A7RII. So, not as versatile as their 65/2 but the good news is that it's capable of gorgeous rendering and similar amount of blur.

Personally, I would have preferred a ported CV 35/1.7 for the Sony sensor instead. This lens is absolutely amazing in terms of resolution from wide open and has very nice rendering as well. CV could optimized it for the thickness of the Sony's sensor stack, sparing the need of a PCX, improve its MFD and call it
...Show more

Yes, I am still having trouble deciding how to handle the 35mm focal length. I know I am not alone. I have the ZM 35/1.4 with the front filter in place. It works really well for me and I can use it on TAP. Still, I would prefer having a lens where I could get optimal performance without the need for a front filter. I also now have the Zeiss 35-70/3.4 that works well stopped down for landscape. For portraiture and such, I might prefer the look of the new Voigtlander and its slightly dreamier rendering to the Zeiss ZM, and I still might try it out, but am waiting to see more examples and more informed assessments. I almost ordered one yesterday, but I would not keep it and the Zeiss ZM and frankly 35mm gaps for me better from the Sony 12-24 or the Zeiss Loxia 21 and the Loxia 50 or Voigtlander 65 than the 40mm focal length does. Our native 35mm options are less than ideal and I am guessing that it is known to the powers that be that we crave a great native 35/2 or 35/1.8 but that there are reasons, contractual or otherwise, as to why we have not gotten one yet.



Oct 06, 2017 at 04:41 PM
Luvwine
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p.18 #5 · p.18 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Juha Kannisto wrote:
Thanks Luvwine! For me the lens is working really nicely so far. I don't really shoot landscape and I think it works fine for street and general walk-around and close-ups. I'm also not very sensitive to color fringing, it doesn't bother me much in general. The benefits for my use compared to 65/2 will be the focal length as 40mm is more of a day-to-day generic fl, and the size as it's also nicer to walk around with and to carry around on daily basis.


Thank you for the helpful examples. In your processing, did you attempt to get rid of the color fringing? For example, there is a check box on Lightroom for this. Did you endeavor to remove CA? Thanks much again for sharing your pictures as they are helpful to those of us trying to learn about this lens. Sounds like an excellent fit for your style of shooting.



Oct 06, 2017 at 04:44 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.18 #6 · p.18 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
I do think, though I haven't tested it yet, that there is some FC at infinity, so it might be that some compromise focusing position could give better results overall.


Please keep this in mind when testing infinity, as I would be very interested if hard stop infinity would give a slight past infinity focus in the extreme corners. Thanks, for the lens review!




Oct 06, 2017 at 04:46 PM
jaybr
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p.18 #7 · p.18 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


There is a user on DPreview that's compared the Voigtlander FE 40mm f1.2 against the Loxia 35mm f2
He hasn't done a full test, and isn't going to. He's sending the Voigtlander back because it isn't as "sharp" as the Loxia.

IMO, the Voigtlander FE 40mm f1.2 is a lens that really should be considered as a stopped down f2.2 lens.
It's riddled with LoCa fringing wider than f2.2, but at f2.2 and above, it's a joy.

The Voigtlander 65mm APO is gorgeous wide open at f2 (no LoCa), but is also a lot larger and heavier than the 40mm. The Voigtlander 40mm at f2.2 has no noticeable LoCa, and is arguably more versatile, and IMO is a poor performer at wider apertures than f2.2 (especially in bright daylight). This is the reason why I bought it. I never expected the 40mm to perform well wide open, but did expect it to perform perfectly at f2.8 (which IMO, it does).

It's a great lens 👍
J





Oct 06, 2017 at 05:12 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.18 #8 · p.18 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!



Luvwine wrote:
Thank you for the helpful examples. In your processing, did you attempt to get rid of the color fringing? For example, there is a check box on Lightroom for this. Did you endeavor to remove CA? Thanks much again for sharing your pictures as they are helpful to those of us trying to learn about this lens. Sounds like an excellent fit for your style of shooting.


Thanks! I did no manual work to get rid of CA, but I have the 2 lens compensation settings (apart from vignetting correction) set to Auto on camera and that results in C1 Pro also having a CA removal checkbox checked by default with images shot with those settings. I didn't touch the CA removal settings otherwise. The camera may have done something with the OOC JPEGs I posted yesterday based on those settings too. I basically always keep those 2 settings on Auto in camera so no special processing due to this lens. I don't recall what those settings are called in English now and my A9 is Japanese model with only Japanese UI. Other PP with today's post was about applying some color profiles and some adjustments to shadows and highlights. I didn't actually see any noticeable fringing on my shots that would have required special attention except maybe on the initial overpass aperture series.


Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 05:37 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2017 at 05:29 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.18 #9 · p.18 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!




JimBuchanan wrote:
Please keep this in mind when testing infinity, as I would be very interested if hard stop infinity would give a slight past infinity focus in the extreme corners. Thanks, for the lens review!



The hard infinity goes beyond infinity with my lens across the frame, the accurate infinity seems to be around the middle of the first "loop" in the infinity symbol with my A9. There's usually some variation between these cameras, at least my A7II and A7r and A9 are not exactly aligned at the same spot with lenses I've compared on them.



Oct 06, 2017 at 05:34 PM
Jonas B
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p.18 #10 · p.18 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


If Voigtländer hadn't announced the 65mm APO Macro lens at the same as the 40/1.2 no-one would have got the idea comparing them. Or so I guess, at least.

EDIT: Forgot to say I appreciate all the new samples. I wonder If I finally will put my RX1 on the shelf and buy an A7x again!



Oct 06, 2017 at 05:37 PM
 

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serhan_
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p.18 #11 · p.18 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Thanks for all the samples and the review. How is the rotation from mfd to infinity, long or short focus throw?


Oct 06, 2017 at 05:57 PM
Luvwine
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p.18 #12 · p.18 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Jonas B wrote:
If Voigtländer hadn't announced the 65mm APO Macro lens at the same as the 40/1.2 no-one would have got the idea comparing them. Or so I guess, at least.

EDIT: Forgot to say I appreciate all the new samples. I wonder If I finally will put my RX1 on the shelf and buy an A7x again!


A fair observation, but the fact is that the first lens that Voigtlander made for the E mount was a great success optically. They really hit the 65/2 apo out of the park. Naturally, folks were hoping they would follow their first success with another. This too may be successful, but it is a lens with more character and has some limitations the 65 does not have. It is inevitable that after such a success as with the 65, whatever comes next will be compared to what came before whether announced together or no--at least if the price point is similar, which it is. The comparison may not be fair given the size and speed difference and perhaps as time goes on we will find out that this lens too is great in its own way, but I think it is a bit early for such a conclusion.



Oct 06, 2017 at 05:58 PM
AGeoJO
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p.18 #13 · p.18 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Luvwine wrote:
A fair observation, but the fact is that the first lens that Voigtlander made for the E mount was a great success optically. They really hit the 65/2 apo out of the park. Naturally, folks were hoping they would follow their first success with another. This too may be successful, but it is a lens with more character and has some limitations the 65 does not have. It is inevitable that after such a success as with the 65, whatever comes next will be compared to what came before whether announced together or no--at least if the price point is
...Show more


Stephen, the first Voigtlander lenses in native E-mount are actually the trio ultra or hyper wide lenses; 10, 12 and 15mm. Well, they also make these lenses in the Leica-M mount concurrently. With the exception of the 15mm as having QC issues, those lenses are also superb performers.



Oct 06, 2017 at 06:08 PM
jhinkey
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p.18 #14 · p.18 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jaybr wrote:
There is a user on DPreview that's compared the Voigtlander FE 40mm f1.2 against the Loxia 35mm f2
He hasn't done a full test, and isn't going to. He's sending the Voigtlander back because it isn't as "sharp" as the Loxia.

IMO, the Voigtlander FE 40mm f1.2 is a lens that really should be considered as a stopped down f2.2 lens.
It's riddled with LoCa fringing wider than f2.2, but at f2.2 and above, it's a joy.

The Voigtlander 65mm APO is gorgeous wide open at f2 (no LoCa), but is also a lot larger and heavier than the 40mm. The Voigtlander 40mm at
...Show more

Lots of problems with that post on DPR, but his 40/1.2 does not look very good at all even stopped down - this is on a A7RII I believe.

I don't mind LoCa as long as it's correctable in post reasonably well.

I'll wait for someone on this thread to actually post some distance/infinity samples.



Oct 06, 2017 at 06:40 PM
Luvwine
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p.18 #15 · p.18 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


AGeoJO wrote:
Stephen, the first Voigtlander lenses in native E-mount are actually the trio ultra or hyper wide lenses; 10, 12 and 15mm. Well, they also make these lenses in the Leica-M mount concurrently. With the exception of the 15mm as having QC issues, those lenses are also superb performers.


You are quite correct. I guess I had not really thought about those. If I recall correctly one or more of those designs were ported designs from M mount--at least the 15 seemed to be if memory serves. The 65 and 40 are new designs for E mount from what I can tell. I owned the 12mm and it is a fine performer tho the Sony 12-24 seems better. I guess the main point is that with the 65, Voigtlander showed what it could do designing for E mount. Anything that follows will inevitably be compared.



Oct 06, 2017 at 06:41 PM
sebboh
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p.18 #16 · p.18 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


DavidBM wrote:
OK Rolling review commenced: infinity and portrait distance resolution, and first work on bokeh, and a few samples that are just what I could manage this morning....

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/voigtlander-40mm-f1-2-nokton-aspherical-rolling-review/


thanks for doing this, the lens is looking much nicer than i expected. i'd love to see some mid distance wide open shots (subject around 10-15ft) to get an idea of it's look and level of isolation at such distances.



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:06 PM
Luvwine
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p.18 #17 · p.18 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


jhinkey wrote:
Lots of problems with that post on DPR, but his 40/1.2 does not look very good at all even stopped down - this is on a A7RII I believe.

I don't mind LoCa as long as it's correctable in post reasonably well.

I'll wait for someone on this thread to actually post some distance/infinity samples.


That particular poster on DPreview seems very confident in his opinions but I often disagree with what he writes. For example, if I recall correctly, he trashed the Loxia 85 by testing it against the GM 85 at short distances (not infinity at all) and concluded the Loxia 85 was not worth owning. Obviously, I disagree with his assessment (I own both) but that I don't like his methods and sometimes his conclusions does not mean he is wrong in this instance. I will await more reliable, to me, information sources. It is also interesting that he dislikes Phillip Reeve's opinions about rendering. At least that I don't see eye to eye with that reviewer is fairly consistent....


Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 07:37 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:32 PM
twomblywhite
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p.18 #18 · p.18 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


sebboh wrote:
thanks for doing this, the lens is looking much nicer than i expected. i'd love to see some mid distance wide open shots (subject around 10-15ft) to get an idea of it's look and level of isolation at such distances.


Hi Sebboh. I'm really curious as to what you will think about this lens. I really like your style and usage and your posts on other threads have been invaluable in helping me explore legacy lenses (mainly the Rokkors).

Do you have any opinion of the fringing of this 40/1.2 at wide apertures?


Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 08:17 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2017 at 07:35 PM
sebboh
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p.18 #19 · p.18 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


twomblywhite wrote:
Hi Sebboh. I'm really curious as to what you will think about this lens. I really like your style and usage and you posts on other threads have been invaluable in helping me explore legacy lenses (mainly the Rokkors).

Do you have any opinion of the fringing of this 40/1.2 at wide apertures?


thanks, i don't want to say much without actually shooting the lens myself or at least seeing a lot more pictures. it looks like it has the same trouble with purple blooming at full aperture that all the fast voigtlanders seem to have. overall fringing looks better than your average f/1.4 lens, but higher contrast might make it stand out more than it would on some older legacy glass.




Oct 06, 2017 at 08:06 PM
freaklikeme
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p.18 #20 · p.18 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!


Jonas B wrote:
If Voigtländer hadn't announced the 65mm APO Macro lens at the same as the 40/1.2 no-one would have got the idea comparing them. Or so I guess, at least.

EDIT: Forgot to say I appreciate all the new samples. I wonder If I finally will put my RX1 on the shelf and buy an A7x again!


I think announcing them that way was fine. It might've been smarter to hold the release of the 65 until after the 40 was generally available.



Oct 06, 2017 at 08:12 PM
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