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What would it take you to switch/upgrade?
  
 
level1photog
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


I am a happy Canon 5D Mark IV user here for wedding, engagement and family photography. It seems like every few months, there is a new camera that's the new King of the Hill. However, I feel the 5D IV is more than adequate for my needs and it would require significant upgrade to switch or upgrade to a new Canon camera. What feature would it takes for you to switch?

If I were to upgrade to another camera, I just want a 5D IV mirrorless version or equivalent with good EVF and IBIS and compatible with EF lens. For Sony, they would have to make a baby A9 (A7III) that's fully compatible with EF lens with good AF in the dark. Sony A7 III with dual SD card fully compatible with EF lens and price around $2000 would be enough for me.

Edited on Sep 12, 2017 at 05:08 PM · View previous versions



Sep 12, 2017 at 03:58 PM
hokiejokey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


10 FPS.


Sep 12, 2017 at 04:58 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


When I read the title of your thread I thought it was another of those switch systems discussions. My opinion on that is that the expense and learning curve of becoming expert at a new camera system for some perceived but in reality marginal improvement in outcome is a fools errand.

Your question really is What would it take for you to upgrade?. The simple answer is I won't know until someone, in all likelihood Canon, offers it. I've had my 5D3 for four years and its been an entirely satisfying workhorse that has taken, in my eyes, perfect images in all sorts of lighting situations. I'm retired and travel to interesting places for culture or wildlife. I'm likely to be trying to capture anything. Very much a generalist and my 5D3 and collected L lenses serve me very well. If an image doesn't work the problem is mine, not my equipments'.

This year I purchased a 5D4 to add to my kit. I added it because I like using multiple bodies in the field and wanted a second FF body. It offers some feature improvements, better live view/video AF, more AF lattitude when using a teleconverter with my 100-400, more cropping resolution, perhaps better image quality in extreme lighting situations. I've only been using it for a few months and its a wonderful camera. However I've yet to take an image that I couldn't have done just as well with my 5D3.

So, what would it take to get me to buy a 5D5? I can't imagine. I think the technology curve has passed beyond my needs. I can't use 50 MP let alone 60. These cameras are better than I am. So the only scenario I can imagine is the physical or mechanical loss of one of my existing cameras. Not very satisfying for argument I know.

I am going to upgrade my SL1 to an SL2. The SL2 sensor, the same as in my 80D, is a technical improvement over the 18 MP sensors. And besides, my granddaughter wants my SL1 to supplement her cell phone. The SL system fills a different need than FF and supplements it. And to answer the next question, the Canon 24 MP dual pixel crop sense fills my needs quite well and I don't anticipate needing more than what it provides. I'd like some better crop lenses but not if they approach the size/weight of FF lenses. I don't see much room for improvement in the gears that are offered us today.



Sep 12, 2017 at 05:04 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


You will never have 100% AF compatibility when going from EF to E-mount. You will rely on an adapter controlling the AF drive from the camera into the EF lens (might be sometimes better, sometimes not as good). So if AF is very critical, I would either stick with Canon or fully switch and invest into new Sony FE lenses. Price around $2K for a A7III is a nice wish, but I am afraid the release price will be higher than this.

Many switched to Sony since the A7 series was released, most of them for better sensor performance, smaller FF camera, and also for better third party manual focus lens adaptability. At least for me these were reasons why I bought into the Sony system. AF or fps performance was never a decisive factor for me.



Sep 12, 2017 at 05:11 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I don't see much room for improvement in the gears that are offered us today.


DR? Resolution? Lytro sensor technology applied in larger sensors? Just to name quickly a few....there is still a lot of room for further improvement just within the sensor. A different question is if this is important for your kind of photography. It actually might not, but this doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement anymore because other users actually might have good use for this kind of improvements.



Sep 12, 2017 at 05:16 PM
level1photog
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
When I read the title of your thread I thought it was another of those switch systems discussions. My opinion on that is that the expense and learning curve of becoming expert at a new camera system for some perceived but in reality marginal improvement in outcome is a fools errand.

Your question really is What would it take for you to upgrade?. The simple answer is I won't know until someone, in all likelihood Canon, offers it. I've had my 5D3 for four years and its been an entirely satisfying workhorse that has taken, in my eyes, perfect images
...Show more

Thanks for the suggestion. I edited it for clarification.

I feel camera has hit a technological wall. Sony A9/D850/5D IV when it come to DR & ISO performance and the differences is insignificant for me. The biggest difference between upgrading my 6D to 5D IV is how easy to switch AF and more robust AF. I imagine 5D V would offer incremental increases over 5D IV too. If it's mirrorless, then I'll definitely upgrade. I'm definitely not interest in more FPS, 1/2 stop DR/ISO performance, etc.



Sep 12, 2017 at 05:17 PM
msalvetti
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


It depends on what you shoot too. For your subjects, I would agree that the 5DIV is plenty.

But if you also shoot nature and sports, then more pixels (cheaper than a supertele) and more fps would be welcome.

The 1DxII gives plenty of fps. But it's only 20mp, and in my specific case I'm worried that where a 7DII/70-200 is a perfect focal length for the sports I shoot, the 70-200 will be too short on a 1DxII.

So I'm thinking of upgrading to a 5DIV (I can live with 7 fps at half the price of a 1DxII), but I can see upgrading the 5DIV for more pixels, even better AF, or better/easier 4K video (for frame grabs) in a few years.

Mark



Sep 12, 2017 at 05:58 PM
danski0224
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


level1photog wrote:
What feature would it takes for you to switch?


Canon 1- it will take the next generation 5DS R or better sensor put into a 1D series body.

Canon 2- some sort of knockout FF mirrorless without any gimping of features. I would not care if it was EF mount only, either.

Canon 3- a sensor based upon Foveon style technology.

Otherwise, I am waiting to see what the A7RIII brings to the table. The II works great with my Sigma lenses- better than with Canon lenses (rented a A7RII to try it out).

Edit: Sigma SA mount lenses, not Sigma lenses in EF mount.



Edited on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:51 PM · View previous versions



Sep 12, 2017 at 09:14 PM
racoll
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


What would it take for me to switch/upgrade? A blow to the head that made me forget that I already have all the camera that I need in my 'old' 5D3. Having said that, I seriously hope that never happens, but I have to agree with Jeff Nolten and his comments about his 5D3 and upgrading in general. I know the 5D4 is a better camera, but I feel that my 5D3 meets and exceeds my needs at the present time. I'll probably wait and see what the 5D5 has whenever it's introduced but until then, no upgrading for me.

Andy



Sep 12, 2017 at 09:50 PM
mudlake
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


I'm almost certainly going to upgrade my five-year-old 6D to the Sony A7rIII when it gets released. I will miss Canon ergonomics but will love the EVF for my legacy lenses (I hate using live view on my 6D for manual focus since it's so unstable). The resolution will also be nice for when I want to print big and I can use all my Canon glass.

I just don't see Canon coming out with what I want anytime soon.



Sep 12, 2017 at 09:51 PM
 

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level1photog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


mudlake wrote:
I'm almost certainly going to upgrade my five-year-old 6D to the Sony A7rIII when it gets released. I will miss Canon ergonomics but will love the EVF for my legacy lenses (I hate using live view on my 6D for manual focus since it's so unstable). The resolution will also be nice for when I want to print big and I can use all my Canon glass.

I just don't see Canon coming out with what I want anytime soon.


Logical upgrade. I have the 6D and the AF sometimes is frustrating and limiting for focus and recomposing especially with wide open lens. Otherwise, it's a fine camera as I have build my entire wedding portfolio with that camera.



Sep 12, 2017 at 10:02 PM
Snopchenko
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


Most likely nothing (short of a force majeure). I am happy with the camera I have, and if I buy another camera with my 1D Mark 4 still around, it would be as the second / backup body, not as a replacement. For my use, there is no camera with a better combination of features in the market, anyway, so ideally the second camera I would've bought is... another 1D4. Now, I remember reading a story about a guy who is/was dating twin sisters (each drop dead gorgeous in her own right) - that's what having dual 1D4 would've been like for me.


Sep 12, 2017 at 10:40 PM
rattlebonez
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


Sony has unusable ergonomics and no 400mm DO IS II wildlife lens
Far too many issues and unusable ergonomics rule out Sony

Mirrorless Canon with 5D body size or 6D size and EF mount could work



Sep 12, 2017 at 10:57 PM
artsupreme
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


I asked this same question in 2015 about the 5DIV and the popular choice was DR by a long shot...it's obvious that DR/Sensor tech is where Canon is trailing behind, but luckily we have most everything else we want in the system. If you created another poll for the 5DV you will probably get the same answer....people want more DR.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1346430/0



Sep 12, 2017 at 11:07 PM
danski0224
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


rattlebonez wrote:
Sony has unusable ergonomics (snip)

Mirrorless Canon with 5D body size or 6D size and EF mount could work


I would say different, but certainly not unusable. I actually prefer the Sigma sd ergonomics over Sony.

I would prefer a 1D series body myself.

Based upon the past track record, I would expect a Canon mirrorless offering to fall well behind Sony as far as total features included is concerned.

However, if the still photography feature set was complete and well implemented, it could be a winner.




Sep 12, 2017 at 11:32 PM
bcguy
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


I will upgrade when my camera dies.


Sep 13, 2017 at 12:00 AM
rstoddard11
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


Still getting great shots from my 6D and my 5D (original).

I find that in most shooting that my ISO is never much higher than 400 and in those cases, both systems work well. From there, the 6D at 3200 matches the 5D 1 at 800 and is still viable at 6400.

I have 24x36 canvasses hanging on my wall shot with both. For me, 12MP of the 5D1 is not a limiting factor. I certainly don't need 50 MP. For wildlife, I do wish the 6D had ever so slightly higher resolution as I do crop a lot. I like simplicity and both are very simple for what I need to use them for.

I will at some point want to grab a newer body and use that as my primary, but I am really still loving the 6D after all these years. I have gotten used to using center point only AF, even for flying birds. I know there are better systems. I just choose to pretend that they don't exist because I can't afford them.

For me, in the future, I would hope to see the DR curve stretch out to the right versus ISO, i.e. better high ISO from a newer body and of course better AF performance.

Then again, I may just at that time decide to pick up a used 5D3 and still be happy.

Ignorance is bliss.



Sep 13, 2017 at 02:06 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


5D4R with a flippy screen and a whole bunch more DR and/or a whole bunch more FPS to go along with it. Which of course, isn't gonna happen. Not sure where they'll take the 5D5 after the 5D4, but without a flippy, I'm probably gonna stand pat.

Imo, many of the diff's between my 6D2 and the 5D4 isn't enough to give up the flippy screen. I really don't want / need 50MP in a 5DsR (already have the 80D for max pixel density).

5DsR II with flippy screen ... AND a really good crop mode (with some very good fps in crop mode) would be something that I might consider upgrading in a two-for-one scenario.

But, realistically I don't see anything else on the Canon horizon that calls to me ... something with a true ISO 32 or 25 could catch my attention.

In the Sony camp ... I'd still be intrigued if they would make a high MP DSLR ergonomic body (somewhat smaller version of A900 style) with flippy (not A mount / SLT) in E mount for my alts and EF glass (understanding performance limitations of adapter), but I'm not holding my breath on that one, either.

Nikon ... too much EF glass to really think about going there.








Sep 13, 2017 at 04:09 AM
NJPhotographer
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


racoll wrote:
What would it take for me to switch/upgrade? A blow to the head that made me forget that I already have all the camera that I need in my 'old' 5D3. Having said that, I seriously hope that never happens, but I have to agree with Jeff Nolten and his comments about his 5D3 and upgrading in general. I know the 5D4 is a better camera, but I feel that my 5D3 meets and exceeds my needs at the present time. I'll probably wait and see what the 5D5 has whenever it's introduced but until then, no upgrading for me.

Andy


I agree. The 5D3 still meets and exceeds my needs. I don't need to upgrade or switch.



Sep 13, 2017 at 04:46 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What would it take you to switch/upgrade?


danski0224 wrote:
Based upon the past track record, I would expect a Canon mirrorless offering to fall well behind Sony as far as total features included is concerned.

However, if the still photography feature set was complete and well implemented, it could be a winner.


Total features is not important to me as long as the core competency of the camera is excellent. This would be AF, responsiveness, ergonomics and a reasonably competitive sensor.

I recently demoed a Sony a9 for a couple weeks and it's very fast and responsive (fps and AF), but ergonomics need work. That said, I thought it was a step better than their previous mirrorless offerings.

If Canon can't match this level of sheer mirrorless performance, then I'd be content with a somewhat slower mirrorless experience for situations where its feature strengths outweigh performance weaknesses, but in a hybrid OVF/EVF DSLR/mirrorless body. OVF mode would allow traditional fast DSLR performance, preferably in a 1D style body.



Sep 13, 2017 at 05:06 AM
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