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Last night: Me + 4 videographers.
  
 
BSPhotog
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


4. Four. Four freaking videographers. I don't know why I didn't say something; I guess I just kept assuming it would get better. I should have put my foot down when the quarter of Canon camera wielding clowns came cascading into the salon. It wasn't like they ever really split up, it was just four people surrounding the same thing. 😳


Sep 10, 2017 at 11:13 AM
InSanE
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


I solved this by including video services. People like one stop shopping and I like having full control over video guys, extra money is also welcome.


Sep 10, 2017 at 11:34 AM
jmraso
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


Oh my God,

Last night I shot the wedding of a 2015 bride's sister, I had (we had) a BIG problem with the video guy ,if u recall I posted a few pictures of this man and his lighting and very old camera. Since that day I just dont accept weddings with video hired somewhere else (here in Spain most studios offer both photo and video), with my videographer, who is a nice guy, I had no problem and he yielded me when he had to, etc.
Oh, why he yielded me ? Well, here the B & G pay three times more for photo than for video, needless to say who has to yield.

I forgot, I also edit my videos since which is an excellent extra !



Sep 10, 2017 at 11:55 AM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


Good videography is a very intrusive art. There is almost no way to do it well without being in everyone's face and controlling the situation. This makes it terrible for wedding photojournalists.

Most clients don't understand any of this though.



Sep 10, 2017 at 12:42 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


deepbluejh wrote:
Good videography is a very intrusive art.


I don't believe or except that statement. I've seen it done without it being such.



Sep 10, 2017 at 02:12 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


BSPhotog wrote:
4. Four. Four freaking videographers. I don't know why I didn't say something; I guess I just kept assuming it would get better. I should have put my foot down when the quarter of Canon camera wielding clowns came cascading into the salon. It wasn't like they ever really split up, it was just four people surrounding the same thing. 😳


I've had that many on moe than one occasion. This seems to be the norm around here with those offering SDE. Sometimes they are very intrusive other times not so much.



Sep 10, 2017 at 02:13 PM
jmraso
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


"Eh, you will have 4 photograpers !", and the bride says: "oh, in that case I am booking right now !".
The same is true with video.



Sep 10, 2017 at 02:17 PM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


MRomine wrote:
I don't believe or except that statement. I've seen it done without it being such.


Some are "worse" than others, but i can tell you firsthand, almost any steadicam work has to be done in close proximity. It's also quite common to shoot something (in pieces) multiple times - which is super annoying requires several takes.

Yes a wedding video can be done while being a a quiet "fly on the wall" somewhere - but really good ones almost always aren't.

I have done both and I can tell you with no hesitation that that video is harder to do well than photo.



Sep 10, 2017 at 03:30 PM
BSPhotog
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


There was definitely no SDE here. It mostly seemed like a lot of redundant stuff. They had decent camera equipment (C100, 5d3, some crop Canon body, a6500, some L glass and some cine primes), but strangely not much for motion control other than a couple of tripods and a small gimbal for the a6500.



Did I mention that one was wearing a bright yellow shirt?



Sep 10, 2017 at 04:06 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


deepbluejh wrote:
Some are "worse" than others, but i can tell you firsthand, almost any steadicam work has to be done in close proximity. It's also quite common to shoot something (in pieces) multiple times - which is super annoying requires several takes.


I don't believe it, in fact I have seen it done and done well with out showing with wide angles lenses and being right on top of the subject.

deepbluejh wrote:
Yes a wedding video can be done while being a a quiet "fly on the wall" somewhere - but really good ones almost always aren't.


You are going to have a nearly impossible time of convincing me of that when I have seen wonderful creative videos where the tog was not in the face right on top of the subject.

deepbluejh wrote:
I have done both and I can tell you with no hesitation that that video is harder to do well than photo.


I'm not arguing the difficultly of the task. I'm arguing the approaching of accomplishing the task and that it can be done well without taking the approach that you are recommending.



Sep 10, 2017 at 09:34 PM
 

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MRomine
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


BSPhotog wrote:
Did I mention that one was wearing a bright yellow shirt?


That was the DJ right?



Sep 10, 2017 at 09:35 PM
BSPhotog
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


MRomine wrote:
That was the DJ right?


I wish.


From talking to one of the shooters, it sounds as though the footage is edited down to a 2-3hr production...which seems absurd. Unless your name is Jack Bauer, you don't have that much relevant content happening in 8 hours of your day.



Sep 10, 2017 at 11:37 PM
LeeSimms
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


2-3 hrs final edit, 4 shooters, ugh — wonder what that invoice was.


Sep 11, 2017 at 03:21 AM
glort
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.



I have had some bad Run ins with Video guys over the years.
So many thing the wedding is put on for their sole exclusive benefit.... even more than shooters! :0)

There was one arsehole here about 15 years ago that took the cake, Charged a fortune, took a year to edit and complete the vid- IF you threatened him with legal action, and was booked solid... which probably added to the arrogance of the guy. I did a few weddings with him till he pushed me to far on one job and I punched the guy out literally in the church carpark after the service.

I see people here go on about one bad review ruing their business and think of this guy who people knew was an arrogant pig that overcharged and took forever to return the work but booked him anyway. Always try to work out what the hell he was able to do to get away with that?
Must have been the best sales person or BS artist in the world.

I remember one video crew that went around that had about 4 Guys. 2 cameramen, one guy holding the portapacks or running leads and the otehr guy that sat on the edge of the dance floor with a control panel and a bunch of monitors seemingly playing director. They used to set up these huge lights that were always overloading the power circuits of the venues and causeing problems but the many times I worked with them they never seemed to change anything.

Apart from people tripping over cords all the time ( wouldn't get away with that now!) up to the reception they wern't bad at all to work with and for about 90% of the time would just shoot what was happening. they would arrange a few quick shots but never took over things or impeeded on my shooting time.
Not like the other clown.

After I dropped the first moron I just refused to take any weddings where they were using him. I lost a couple but much to my surprise, when I apologized and said I couldn't work with him and they would need to get another photographer, they went with me and dropped him.

I found a couple of guys and started offering my own video coverages as well.
At first I did all the editing etc but then I found a guy that was very good and gave me a great deal on the whole finished production so I just loaded my fee on top of his and everyone was happy especialy as I was giving him more work than he was pulling in on his own at the time.

Was SO good to be able to really work with someone and co ordinate rather than fighting with a smiling face and getting pissed off.
Most video guys were great to work with but some were unreal.

I can't remember the last time I had a pro video guy at a wedding I shot now. Plenty of relos and friends with either small video cams or SLR's ( and increasingly mounted/ fixed gopro's ) but a long while since I worked with a paid camera jockey.

I remember when Video first came in as super 8's went out ( yes, I have been doing this that long!)
Every wedding had a video and I would be told about 10 times on ever job, " People won't have photos soon, it will all be video. )

Doesn't seem to be the case now does it? :0)



Sep 11, 2017 at 12:34 PM
BKphotography
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


Was the cash pot big enough to pay the four people who were filming?


Sep 11, 2017 at 09:23 PM
FrancisK7
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


InSanE wrote:
I solved this by including video services. People like one stop shopping and I like having full control over video guys, extra money is also welcome.


Same here.

The extra income is nice, we offer a photobooth as well so we market ourselves as offering all three popular services in one easy turnkey solution. Couples love simplicity. August 19th there were 5 of us, 2 photographers, 2 videographers and an assistant... the ceremony space was super cramped, on a hotel rooftop terrace. Precision and coordination was absolutely required to make sure every angles were properly covered and nobody were walking in other people's shot. Free gunning would have messed everything up.

One team leader, one team that communicates well, more money, a more enjoyable day.

Do it.



Sep 11, 2017 at 09:56 PM
DmitriM
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


Had this problem a few times before.
2 days ago I also had a DJ who had his own videographer and photographer. To make matter worse these idiots(that's how they were acting the whole evening) didn't know what they were doing and just made my job a horrible experience( and clients will suffer in the end)
At the end of the day I staged a photo of everyone there. They decided to help with the staging then started to take pictures and then let everyone go. All while I was standing there with my eyes wide open in disbelief. Then the photographer even asked" oh, did you also want to take that photo"? lol.

And this is not the first time when DJs are bringing their own video people to record them working.
Forget me, it's the clients who suffer in the end and that's the sad part.



Sep 12, 2017 at 03:20 AM
d831
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


MRomine wrote:
I don't believe it, in fact I have seen it done and done well with out showing with wide angles lenses and being right on top of the subject.

You are going to have a nearly impossible time of convincing me of that when I have seen wonderful creative videos where the tog was not in the face right on top of the subject.

I'm not arguing the difficultly of the task. I'm arguing the approaching of accomplishing the task and that it can be done well without taking the approach that you are recommending.


Mark's got it right, here and in his 1st reply above. Well said. Good cinematographers/videographers will be just as stealth as good photojournalists. Shots don't need to be staged and overshot for video any more than for stills. Good camera work is good camera work and good documentation is good documentation - the medium itself is irrelevant.

Four cameras is not necessarily too much, but four cinematographers/videographers is, IMHO. I wonder if they were doing a BTS video? Anyhow, a two person team + a static unmanned camera is plenty and even then, I think only warranted for the ceremony and maybe speeches. Everything else can be captured by two people, or a single cinematographer + tripod mounted camera when necessary (e.g. first look, speeches, dancing, etc.).

I think Steadicams (most of them anyway) and Ronins are completely overkill too. But Zhiyun Cranes do a great job and aren't obtrusive. If using a Sony Alpha kit, they can easily handle a Zony 55mm f/1.8 or Batis 85mm f/1.8. WA is of course great too (e.g. establishing shots, dancing, etc.), but it doesn't need to be shot any more obtrusively than how a still photographer would.

Whether it's still or motion photography, "in everyone's face," "controlling the situation," staged shots, etc....those are simply choices people make, they're not necessities. I don't disagree at all that some folks are downright obnoxious, but they, along with those that don't understand how (or care enough) to not get in each other's way are easily found, regardless of the medium.



Sep 12, 2017 at 12:10 PM
RobWNY
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


I had a similar scenario about 6 weddings ago... 4 video and 2 of us. Excessive, yes, but they were fine and respected that we had a job to do, let us do it, and didn't interfere. We were the same for them. We all communicated early on and discussed our individual needs to deliver effectively for the couple. Mutual respect.
Next wedding, 1 video guy who was terrible and in very close proximity to the couple all the time. During the first dance as he was constantly circling the couple about 3 feet from them I had to place my hand on his shoulder and tell him to move to the freaking perimeter of the dance floor so I could get a few shots without him in it. Including a specific wide shot from an elevated area the bride requested.
I spoke him later and it was his first solo wedding. He was shooting with a wide lens the entire time on his crop Canon. I found that it was his only lens. I even offered to let him use my 70-200 or 85 so he could back up a bit... he declined. SMH


Edited on Sep 14, 2017 at 12:26 PM · View previous versions



Sep 13, 2017 at 02:21 PM
t4haughton
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Last night: Me + 4 videographers.


If you chase two rabbits, they both escape.


Sep 14, 2017 at 03:31 AM
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