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Some advice please
  
 
Frank Kearney
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Some advice please


I am to go on a hike into the Grand Canyon in a year and I will have to carry everything I will need in the canyon for four days. That will preclude my bringing my usual Canon DSLR camera gear simply because of the weight and bulk.

I am considering purchasing a 4/3ds camera that I might be able to squirrel away if I use the native lenses and yet i would like to be able to use the camera with my Canon EF lenses when not hiking or otherwise restricted by bulk and weight.

I would also like to be able to record in 4K as I document what we are doing, and for use on later hikes for the same purpose. The 4K requirement, unfortunately, eliminates the Canon M series, and so I am asking for some advice on a good system, with good native lenses and 4K. I have been intrigued by the new Olympus and some photos I have seen using Canon lenses have been very impressive - but I am open to any suggestions.

Thanks for any help.

Frank



Sep 05, 2017 at 01:20 AM
stan2
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Some advice please


you didn't say what Canon DSLR you've been using but I doubt you'll be disappointed. I just bought a PEN-F and would have pointed you to look at that, just because I'm really liking mine after coming off an older, cheaper Oly mirrorless for a few years. I had the EPL5 and really liked it on hikes, travel, grab-and-go, etc., compared to my big canon 7D. I never thought the photos suffered for it. I expect the PEN-F will give me some even better pix, starting with fall color in colorado soon. But I digress. Anyhow, you had me right up to the '4K video' part. My new high end PEN doesn't have it and I don't care because I hardly ever shoot vid.

In the Oly line now you have a few choices for 4K - top of the line EM-1mkii, the new M10mkiii, and the two 'Tough' models. You might like the 'Toughs' for this trip, but the M-1 also has weather sealing. It's a pro-caliber camera for sure, with the same newish 20mp sensor that's in my smaller PEN-F.

As for using the canon lenses, I have used adaptors to get from Canon EF to MFT cameras. It can be done but the cheaper adaptors won't give you autofocus and I think there are other limitations. I think there are adaptors that will communicate between the lens and camera but I haven't used them. I often use non-MFT, vintage lenses like older Olympus, Pentax, Leica, etc on my mirrorless cameras but those old film lenses all have f-stop rings. The modern Canon EF lenses do not. Without being able to control the f stop, I'm not sure how you'd use the Canon lenses, unless some of the more advanced adaptors let you control aperture.



Sep 05, 2017 at 03:10 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Some advice please


You definitely want a capable/high-resolution camera and lenses for this trip. The Olympus E-M1, E-M1.2, Pen-F and E-M10.3 are all very good options. For lenses, the good compact lenses are the prime lenses like the Oly 17/1.8, Panny 15/1.7, Oly 12/2 and Oly 60 macro ... and zoom lenses like the Panny 12-35, Oly 9-18, Oly 12-40 and maybe Oly 12-100.

You might find these DXO lens rankings quite useful:

https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Short-telephoto-and-standard-focal-lengths



Sep 05, 2017 at 04:40 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Some advice please


Also depends on your budget and what your aim is.

One of the best options, although not cheap, would probably be the E-M1.2 with the 12-100mm F4.
The 12-100 has gotten great reviews even though it's not quite as fast as the shorter 12-40. On the other hand it covers 24-200mm 35mm EQ and might thus serve as an only lens, great for landscapes and many other things. It's got a very good minimum close focusing distance as well making it a good macro lens.

It really depends on what you are gonna shoot. If you want very shallow depth of field, the 12-100 might not be the best of your choices.



Sep 05, 2017 at 04:57 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Some advice please


You might want to take advantage of the current Olympus trade-in program:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/promotion/13466/olympus-trade-in-promotion.html

I believe any cheap but working old SLR or DSLR will be accepted. If you don't have one you can buy one from eBay or Craigslist or swap meet, etc. But check with B&H to be sure your el cheapo will qualify for the trade-in.



Sep 05, 2017 at 11:50 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Some advice please


If you want the highest possible resolution, which is 20MP for m4/3, and 4K, there are really only 3 choices; Panasonic GX8, Panasonic GH5 and Olympus E-M1 II.

The GH5 is approaching DSLR weight, so I would rule that one out. The E-M1II is a newer, more advanced camera than the GX8, and although I personally prefer the Panasonic, the Olympus is clearly the superior camera.

Advantages of the E-M1 II:
- Dual IS with the excellent 12-100mm f/4
- Higher resolution/sharpness due to lack of AA filter
- Larger battery
- More rugged construction
- Generally much faster
- Takes 2 SD cards
- Microphone jack is standard 3.5mm (2.5mm on the GX8)
- Relatively large grip

Advantages of the GX8:
- Boxy shape very practical when travelling
- Dual IS with a whole range of Panasonic and Panasonic-Leica lenses, including the very good PL 100-400mm
- Tilting viewfinder
- Ergonomics more similar to a "traditional" DSLR camera

If 16MP is sufficient, there's the Panasonic G85. It's much cheaper than any of the above, but although not as fast as the Olympus offer most of the advantages of both cameras except dual IS with the 12-100mm, 2 SD slots and the tiltable viewfinder.

My choice would be the G85. Then I would have spent what I saved on some great lens



Sep 06, 2017 at 12:38 AM
bobbytan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Some advice please


The E-M1 may not have 4K video but it's feature-loaded and you can get a used one for around $500.


Sep 06, 2017 at 03:53 AM
Frank Kearney
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Some advice please


Thank you for sorting this all out in such a detailed manner. I am inclined toward the EM1-II, but the GX8's low profile is a big plus as space is going to be at a premium.

I agree with you Jorgen (thanks for a great breakdown) that as in all cases the glass will be the most important consideration, all else being equal. As I understand the design of these cameras each manufacturer's glass can be used on the others' cameras - this is a huge advantage in the event that there is a breakthrough design by one or another.

Thank you again - this will be a big deal for us and having visited the Grand Canyon rim, I am keen to get down inside and shoot some memories.

Cheers!

Frank



Sep 06, 2017 at 05:20 AM
glassartist
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Some advice please


Frank Kearney wrote:
Thank you for sorting this all out in such a detailed manner. I am inclined toward the EM1-II, but the GX8's low profile is a big plus as space is going to be at a premium.

I agree with you Jorgen (thanks for a great breakdown) that as in all cases the glass will be the most important consideration, all else being equal. As I understand the design of these cameras each manufacturer's glass can be used on the others' cameras - this is a huge advantage in the event that there is a breakthrough design by one or
...Show more
Water is life in the Grand Canyon.
https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hiking-faq.htm#CP_JUMP_1900774

The GX8 is listed at 487g; the EM1-II at 410g. The 77g difference is 2.7 oz of water. The 12-100, while simply a stunning lens (I have it) is 561g which is almost 20oz of water. BTW, the Pen-F weighs 427g

Most of the f1.8 (or faster) M43 prime lenses are very good, as are most of the f2.8 zooms.

As you've been to the rim, you know that there is almost no such thing as 'too wide' at the G.C. You also know that not a lot of the scenery moves . . . so panos can easily replace an ultra wide, and have the advantage of giving you lots of pixels to crop (and don't weigh anything!)

Look carefully as well at battery life - you aren't going to get much chance to recharge so better battery life also means less weight which means more water . . .

If it were me, and I was starting from scratch, I'd take the EM1-II with the 12-40 2.8. I'd consider the 40-150 f4-5.6 (190g / 6.7oz water) but would probably opt not to take it depending upon what else I was packing.




Sep 06, 2017 at 01:13 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Some advice please


glassartist wrote:
Water is life in the Grand Canyon.
https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hiking-faq.htm#CP_JUMP_1900774

The GX8 is listed at 487g; the EM1-II at 410g. The 77g difference is 2.7 oz of water. The 12-100, while simply a stunning lens (I have it) is 561g which is almost 20oz of water. BTW, the Pen-F weighs 427g

Most of the f1.8 (or faster) M43 prime lenses are very good, as are most of the f2.8 zooms.

As you've been to the rim, you know that there is almost no such thing as 'too wide' at the G.C. You also know that not a lot of the scenery
...Show more

The E-M1 II is 574 grams including battery and cards, and it does shoot 4K. The GX8 is 487 grams.

I don't know how long lenses you need, but when I sold the E-M1 and replaced it with the GX8, I also replaced the Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 with the Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8. The Zuiko is longer of course, and with the TC, it's a 210mm f/4. It's very big though, and weighs 760 grams without the tripod base and the TC. The very compact Panasonic weighs 357 grams, and while the Panasonic offers dual IS on Panasonic bodies that has IBIS, the Zuiko doesn't have IS at all and relies fully on the camera IBIS. You could actually add the Panasonic 100-300mm f/4-5.6 (520 grams) and not be much over the weight of the Zuiko.

I can recommend the official four-thirds web page where there's a simulation program that shows how each lens looks on each camera, with links to the individual specs of every lens and camera as well:

http://four-thirds.org/en/special/matching.html



Sep 06, 2017 at 03:34 PM
 

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glassartist
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Some advice please


I stand corrected on the weights.

I was going by the DPreview spec list which is different from the Olympus website. I image the Olympus website is the correct value. Thanks for catching that.



Sep 06, 2017 at 04:03 PM
pr4photos
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Some advice please


I am a pro that uses Nikon full frame gear. I also have a Lumix GX8, with 7-14mm, 12-35mm, and 35-100mm lenses. That m43 kit all fits in a tiny bag, and the quality is simply superb. Yes, its not as good as the Nikon at higher ISO's, and and at bringing out detail in the shadow areas. But, if you know what you are doing with it, the images speak for themselves Have a look in the images thread at my images for example to see what you can achieve


Sep 06, 2017 at 04:36 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Some advice please


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/928678/104#14167626
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/928678/104#14167779
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/928678/105#14168414

pr4photos wrote:
I am a pro that uses Nikon full frame gear. I also have a Lumix GX8, with 7-14mm, 12-35mm, and 35-100mm lenses. That m43 kit all fits in a tiny bag, and the quality is simply superb. Yes, its not as good as the Nikon at higher ISO's, and and at bringing out detail in the shadow areas. But, if you know what you are doing with it, the images speak for themselves Have a look in the images thread at my images for example to see what you can achieve




Sep 06, 2017 at 06:29 PM
Frank Kearney
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Some advice please


Looks as if it will be the GX8 - that seems to fit the requirements and its compact profile is excellent. I think with a couple of native lenses I will be able to do most all I would want.

Thank you for all the great advice and direction - and Jorgen that four-thirds simulation site really does the job.

Cheers!

Frank



Sep 09, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Pavel
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Some advice please


Frank Kearney wrote:
Looks as if it will be the GX8 - that seems to fit the requirements and its compact profile is excellent. I think with a couple of native lenses I will be able to do most all I would want.

Thank you for all the great advice and direction - and Jorgen that four-thirds simulation site really does the job.

Cheers!

Frank


Frank, I'm about two hours from you in Selma/Smithfield North Carolina. It's about 35 minutes further but Southeastern Camera here in Raleigh has a LOT of used and new Olympus gear in case you may be coming that way one day soon. You could test out various system / lens combos. Just a thought.



Sep 10, 2017 at 12:06 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Some advice please


You should be able to get an GX8 for a really good price now and for the extra money you can get lenses or just save them and get lenses in the future if you decide you like m43.

@pr4photos how does the GX8 handle shutter shock? I know I've read a lot about it but not sure if it was fixed or not. It does have fully electronic shutter which would eliminate it of course.

@Frank Kearny make sure you have time to test your new gear before going on location. I don't mean like hard test it but take a day or two, learn it and test long exposures, test different shutter speeds etc. And don't be scared off but my question to pr4photos. Just a question of my own interest.



Sep 11, 2017 at 04:56 AM
wsalopek
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Some advice please


Panasonic G7 has a great grip...best of the MFT's I've held (haven't held a GX8, but from pics the grip doesn't do it for me)...and better than many bigger cameras as well.

That grip will come in handy when mounting Canon lenses.

--

Bill




Sep 14, 2017 at 01:14 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Some advice please


Wilbus wrote:
@pr4photos@ how does the GX8 handle shutter shock? I know I've read a lot about it but not sure if it was fixed or not. It does have fully electronic shutter which would eliminate it of course.



When the electronic shutter is set to "Auto", the problem is eliminated, at least in my case. The camera figures out itself when shutter shock might be a problem, and switches to electronic.



Sep 14, 2017 at 06:57 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Some advice please


@Jorgen Udvang

That's a nice solution to it!



Sep 14, 2017 at 01:52 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Some advice please


That's cool! Do you know if there is an Auto mode in the E-M1.2?

Jorgen Udvang wrote:
When the electronic shutter is set to "Auto", the problem is eliminated, at least in my case. The camera figures out itself when shutter shock might be a problem, and switches to electronic.





Sep 14, 2017 at 03:05 PM
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