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Nikon D850 What more do you need?
  
 
Vcook
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
I don't think you will ever see them do that with a traditional DSLR. It adds too much complexity to the body, especially with regards to how PDAF and metering work. Lens stabilization is much more effective. As focal length gets longer, IBIS becomes exponentially less effective. IBIS also does not stabilize the viewfinder which is a huge advantage of lens-based systems. Lens stabilization can also be tuned specifically for each individual lens and each application (i.e. macro or shooting from a moving platform).

For legacy shooters (film), their only option for stabilization is also lens-based.

The IBIS advantage of course is
...Show more

This thread isn't about what is possible its about what we need. My 105 1.4e needs VR or IS or whatever you want to call it. Would be nice to have it in body as some mirrorless bodies offer.



Jan 03, 2018 at 07:19 PM
Sauseschritt
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
I don't think you will ever see them do that with a traditional DSLR.


Not that I really demand IBIS in my DSLR - they add a whole new layer of problems, and I can do very well without - but you're too late about that, Pentax already did that.



Jan 03, 2018 at 07:44 PM
worldexclus1ve
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Been a Sony shooter for 2 years but the D850 is a better camera for my needs.
I really like using Zeiss Milvus glass and the 58mm and 105mm are gems lenses to me.

After stepping back into OVF, the only things that EVF gave me were exposure before I took the shot and magnification. Reviewing photos in the EVF is cool also but I rarely use it for that.

Auto ISO has come a long way and that takes care of my need for a EVF.

I see mirrorless as a travel or gimbal video camera more than a work tool at this time. I've used the Sony a7/a7II on every client project up this point, but now I'm getting more demanding work and the AF has to be up to the task. Glass selection also needs to be affordable. Also buffering has to be to a minimum. Nikon offers that compared to Sony. My current D500 has been stellar.

I think using the D850 for the next few years will land me right in the middle of quality mirrorless offerings from Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji. Until then, mirrorless will continue to be improved, but the D850 is as good as it gets right now.



Jan 03, 2018 at 08:41 PM
charles.K
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


worldexclus1ve wrote:
Been a Sony shooter for 2 years but the D850 is a better camera for my needs.
I really like using Zeiss Milvus glass and the 58mm and 105mm are gems lenses to me.

After stepping back into OVF, the only things that EVF gave me were exposure before I took the shot and magnification. Reviewing photos in the EVF is cool also but I rarely use it for that.

Auto ISO has come a long way and that takes care of my need for a EVF.

I see mirrorless as a travel or gimbal video camera more than a work
...Show more

+1

I have had a very similar journey myself.



Jan 03, 2018 at 09:46 PM
CanadaMark
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


worldexclus1ve wrote:
Been a Sony shooter for 2 years but the D850 is a better camera for my needs.
I really like using Zeiss Milvus glass and the 58mm and 105mm are gems lenses to me.

After stepping back into OVF, the only things that EVF gave me were exposure before I took the shot and magnification. Reviewing photos in the EVF is cool also but I rarely use it for that.

Auto ISO has come a long way and that takes care of my need for a EVF.

I see mirrorless as a travel or gimbal video camera more than a work
...Show more

So far every one of my colleagues who has tried to go ultra high-end mirrorless (A9 or A7R II) is back with a DSLR. Everyone has different preferences, but that has been my observation as well at a personal level.

I shot with an A9 the other day again and there are just too many deal-breakers for me. The grip needs to be 1-2" longer for my hands, and the very first thing that pops into my mind every time I look through the EVF is a 1990's era CRT television. Again, just my personal impression, I know a lot of people like them. Just not for me



Jan 03, 2018 at 10:09 PM
charles.K
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
So far every one of my colleagues who has tried to go ultra high-end mirrorless (A9 or A7R II) is back with a DSLR. Everyone has different preferences, but that has been my observation as well at a personal level.

I shot with an A9 the other day again and there are just too many deal-breakers for me. The grip needs to be 1-2" longer for my hands, and the very first thing that pops into my mind every time I look through the EVF is a 1990's era CRT television. Again, just my personal impression, I know a lot
...Show more

Where I see the advantage for the A7rIII is to carefully select smaller/light lenses for travel and dedicated video work. I will opt for the A7rIII in the next 6 months alongside my D850




Jan 03, 2018 at 10:16 PM
CanadaMark
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


charles.K wrote:
Where I see the advantage for the A7rIII is to carefully select smaller/light lenses for travel and dedicated video work. I will opt for the A7rIII in the next 6 months alongside my D850



Absolutely, a compact/pancake lens on an A7R III would be hard to beat for travel or hiking, and Sony/Panasonic are king when it comes to video. If I could justify an A7R III just to use for those specific circumstances, I would be all over that Hopefully Nikon's mirrorless comes in a fair bit cheaper, but I already know I will have the same EVF complaints unless LCD/sensor technology does a quantum leap in the next year!



Jan 03, 2018 at 10:22 PM
SouthwestS2K
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Blakehfreeman wrote:
I'll be more narrow.. I've shot and owned a Sony A7R side by side with my Nikon for a few years. I don't like when I pick a color profile or white balance etc and see the image shift in the viewfinder. I want to see the world as it is... and visualize the end result.

I see DAILY the comment that the best reason for a EVF is to see your final image in viewfinder - and I don't agree. Seemed like a pretty clear example of why I prefer the optical viewfinder.



Thank you. I love how suddenly somehow EVF is "better" that OVF. I know photographers who absolutely HATE EVFs. They have a benefit, but its not better.




Jan 03, 2018 at 10:49 PM
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


For D850 improvement:

fully articulated LCD
Better damped shutter (I found this is one of few spec it get worse than D810)
Fast read out for silent shooting. (mainly aim removing banding under artificial light condition)
Fast AF for LV shooting. (occasionally LV use during recital or concert)
Smaller and lighter.



Jan 03, 2018 at 11:04 PM
worldexclus1ve
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
So far every one of my colleagues who has tried to go ultra high-end mirrorless (A9 or A7R II) is back with a DSLR. Everyone has different preferences, but that has been my observation as well at a personal level.

I shot with an A9 the other day again and there are just too many deal-breakers for me. The grip needs to be 1-2" longer for my hands, and the very first thing that pops into my mind every time I look through the EVF is a 1990's era CRT television. Again, just my personal impression, I know a lot
...Show more

I think the a6500 and XT-2 are great cameras to go with for mirrorless.
But when you go high end, there are diminishing returns. The cost for decent glass runs up the bill fast.

Ultimately, I like Nikon colors better, especially skin tones.



Jan 03, 2018 at 11:23 PM
 

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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


SouthwestS2K wrote:

Thank you. I love how suddenly somehow EVF is "better" that OVF. I know photographers who absolutely HATE EVFs. They have a benefit, but its not better.



I disagree. I have used both types of viewfinders extensively and I do feel EVF are much better in many ways:

- manual focusing...EVF with zoom and peeking are much easier and more accurate.
- judging final exposure... EVF are much closer to what the sensor sees than an OVF.
- real-time information like live histograms visible in the viewfinder.
- exposing to the right ( Ettr ) without taking you eye away from the viewfinder.

With today’s EVF like the one in the A9, I feel the pluses outweigh any negatives. I feel the OVF have been on a downhill slide since the wonderful big and bright viewfinder from the Olympus film cameras.



Jan 04, 2018 at 12:38 AM
charles.K
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


zhangyue wrote:
For D850 improvement:

fully articulated LCD
Better damped shutter (I found this is one of few spec it get worse than D810)
Fast read out for silent shooting. (mainly aim removing banding under artificial light condition)
Fast AF for LV shooting. (occasionally LV use during recital or concert)
Smaller and lighter.


I would have preferred the size and weight to be around the D750. I find the D750 very similar in form and size factor to the older film bodies so maybe this is why.



Jan 04, 2018 at 01:32 AM
zhangyue
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


charles.K wrote:
I would have preferred the size and weight to be around the D750. I find the D750 very similar in form and size factor to the older film bodies so maybe this is why.


Yeh, Charles, I found I start appreciate reduced weight more and more recently maybe because I were there before I actually really like DF weight with a small prime lens on it so I know how you feel. Especially after long day or I am not in best condition, hand hold heavy camera stably shooting with heavy glass actually can be a challenge .

This is a area I found I do missed Sony, a A9 or A7Riii with a manual lens can be really small and light.




Jan 04, 2018 at 01:59 AM
SouthwestS2K
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


chez wrote:
I disagree. I have used both types of viewfinders extensively and I do feel EVF are much better in many ways:

- manual focusing...EVF with zoom and peeking are much easier and more accurate.
- judging final exposure... EVF are much closer to what the sensor sees than an OVF.
- real-time information like live histograms visible in the viewfinder.
- exposing to the right ( Ettr ) without taking you eye away from the viewfinder.

With today’s EVF like the one in the A9, I feel the pluses outweigh any negatives. I feel the OVF have been on a downhill slide since the wonderful
...Show more

Again, to each their own. You might like it and others hate it.



Jan 04, 2018 at 07:21 PM
suteetat
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


charles.K wrote:
Where I see the advantage for the A7rIII is to carefully select smaller/light lenses for travel and dedicated video work. I will opt for the A7rIII in the next 6 months alongside my D850



You will like the combination a lot. I think they do offer similar IQ but offer different strength and weakness so they compliment each other very well. A7r iii AF is a big improvement over A7r ii especially with native E mount lens.
With Techart adapter, it is very good in strong light but still not great indoor under artificial light which
is a bit of a disappointment. Overall, I sitll prefer D850 color but it is no big deal as I can get pretty much what I want in post processing.



Jan 04, 2018 at 10:46 PM
charles.K
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


suteetat wrote:
You will like the combination a lot. I think they do offer similar IQ but offer different strength and weakness so they compliment each other very well. A7r iii AF is a big improvement over A7r ii especially with native E mount lens.
With Techart adapter, it is very good in strong light but still not great indoor under artificial light which
is a bit of a disappointment. Overall, I sitll prefer D850 color but it is no big deal as I can get pretty much what I want in post processing.


Thanks I love the D850 and it has replaced my need for the Fuji GFX 50. I am still not totally convinced of the A7rIII as the A7rII maybe more than enough for the next 12 months as the market is very fluid at the moment and the video functionality of the A7rII is excellent. Lens selection has always been more important than the body. My lens selection for the A7rII/III would be Loxia 21/Batis 25/FE 55 and Batis 85. The 35mm selection for FE is still wanting. The FE 35/2.8 is nice and the FE 35/1.4 I love but it is huge so tough choices. I have no interest now in adapted lenses on the A7rII/III so this keeps my decision process simple.



Jan 05, 2018 at 01:54 AM
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


In three to five years, D850 will be smoked by Nikon's 60MP body. In digtial space, Moar is more.


Jan 05, 2018 at 02:29 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


We waited 10 years for a true D700 replacement (which the D850 finally is).


Jan 05, 2018 at 07:47 AM
suteetat
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


charles.K wrote:
Thanks I love the D850 and it has replaced my need for the Fuji GFX 50. I am still not totally convinced of the A7rIII as the A7rII maybe more than enough for the next 12 months as the market is very fluid at the moment and the video functionality of the A7rII is excellent. Lens selection has always been more important than the body. My lens selection for the A7rII/III would be Loxia 21/Batis 25/FE 55 and Batis 85. The 35mm selection for FE is still wanting. The FE 35/2.8 is nice and the FE 35/1.4 I love
...Show more

This is my problem with Sony as well. I did not buy 35/1.4 because of the size but I do have 35/2.8 which I love for when I want something small and light for casual occasion.
For more serious purpose, I still use mostly third party adapted lens though. I have 50/1.4 Sony Zeiss which is excellent but small body and big lens is just not all that comfortable to use so again I ended up using mostly adapted lenses as well. My most frequently used E mount lens now is probably the 12-24/4 though which have excellent IQ and being less than half the size of Nikon 14-24 and almost half the weight is a big plus although at F4.



Jan 05, 2018 at 11:28 PM
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