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Nikon D850 What more do you need?
  
 
vitalishe
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


That second one is certainly a good choice!


Sep 12, 2017 at 05:34 AM
Gary Irwin
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


After only a few days with mine, and as a still-only shooter, the only thing I could have wished for is 10 FPS w/o grip and a quieter shutter. Otherwise it's near perfect. The D850 is a monster of a camera that has set the bar as the best DSLR in the world. JMHO


Sep 12, 2017 at 12:06 PM
rand1951
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Thats true that if the D850 is set on crop, the pixels on the D500 are about the same. There are two differences after that, the D850 has a larger view finder area that shows a crop box in that, this allows you to find a bird in flight quicker. Also, you can switch to full frame with larger MB file when bird is more stationary and get a more detailed image.


Jan 01, 2018 at 08:45 PM
suteetat
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


In comparison to A7r iii, it would be nice if D850 has bigger AF coverage area. I don't really like to recompose after locking AF especially when I am at f1.4 .
Pixel shift mode is really useful in the right situation. I do like the on sensor focusing system as fine tune process in D850 is still quite basic. My 105/2.8 macro front focus quite a lot at macro distance but back focus a lot at portrait distance for example.
Beside this, I don't really feel that D850 gave up anything in comparison to its biggest mirrorless rival and has many other benefits over A7r iii as well.
I like OVF in certain situation and find EVF handy for certain things, so may be hybrid viewfinder would be nice



Jan 02, 2018 at 12:38 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


suteetat wrote:
[...] it would be nice if D850 has bigger AF coverage area.
The AF system of DSLRs works nothing like a mirrorless system, so thats not a request thats too easy to fulfill.

One could remove the second mirror completely and do sensor based autofocus, just like a mirrorless. In the long term thats likely to happen since sensor based autofocus is getting better and better.

Right now though I think we're stuck with only getting the central section.


Pixel shift mode is really useful in the right situation.
Like an extremely sturdy tripod (or otherwise absolutely fixed position) and a completely static subject. Even many landscapes dont really apply if they have both trees (or other plants) and wind.

I'm sorry but thats very gimmick-y. I think we can easily leave that one to companies like Olympus and Pentax. Especially since those companies have IBIS and Nikon so far doesnt and for pixelshift, you kind of need an IBIS like assembly for your sensor.


[...] hybrid viewfinder would be nice
Agreed.



Jan 02, 2018 at 09:14 AM
chez
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


jhinkey wrote:
Hmm . . . I've never seen a comment suggesting that the best reason to have an EVF is to see the final image.

Actually and OVF and EVF are different versions of the world (the world being the image that the lens is projecting onto the image sensor) and you can pick which camera has which kind of viewfinder to view the world either of those ways.
An OVF clearly does not let you see the world "as it is" since your eye adjusts to light levels and compensates for color casts that make it through the OVF. Also an
...Show more

Yes...an OVF might let you see the world closer to what it looks like...but it sure does not let you see how your sensor see the world...which is where the EVF excels. Personally, I'd rather view how my sensor see's the scene which quite often is totally different than how the OVF sees the scene.



Jan 02, 2018 at 03:29 PM
CanadaMark
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


suteetat wrote:
In comparison to A7r iii, it would be nice if D850 has bigger AF coverage area. I don't really like to recompose after locking AF especially when I am at f1.4 .


There are numerous parts of the camera that would have to change physically as well as many current lenses to improve focus spread significantly, so it's not going to happen with current designs.

First, the entire optical path from the smaller secondary mirror to the AF sensor, including the AF sensor itself, would need to be enlarged significantly, which would be difficult and likely pose many new engineering problems on the bodies we're used to. The entire camera would have to be redesigned. If you could just slap in a larger AF sensor everyone would be doing that.

Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, if the AF spread were much wider, some lenses would simply render outside AF points useless. The AF sensors are positioned in line with the lens' exit pupil. On some lenses (mostly slower ones), the lens barrel would block those AF sensors from seeing through the necessary spot of the exit pupil and you would lose functionality of that AF point completely. Some lenses could accommodate a larger AF sensor spread (like fast primes), but many other lenses would not play nicely with such a design and Nikon would never release a high profile DSLR body with significantly limited lens/AF compatibility.



Jan 02, 2018 at 03:35 PM
wjmeyer
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Speaking of a hybrid viewfinder, another feature that would be nice with future Nikon bodies would be the ability to record video WITHOUT using the rear panel, as sometimes I don't want the panel to light up in certain situations (like low light, some churches, etc), simply seeing the minutes and seconds on the top LCD or viewfinder with a flashing light is sufficient, especially when shooting video on a tripod with a stationary subject where it doesn't matter if the OVF is blacked out.


Jan 02, 2018 at 03:37 PM
CanadaMark
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


wjmeyer wrote:
Speaking of a hybrid viewfinder, another feature that would be nice with future Nikon bodies would be the ability to record video WITHOUT using the rear panel, as sometimes I don't want the panel to light up in certain situations (like low light, some churches, etc), simply seeing the minutes and seconds on the top LCD or viewfinder with a flashing light is sufficient, especially when shooting video on a tripod with a stationary subject where it doesn't matter if the OVF is blacked out.


You can buy hoods with eye pieces that basically turn the rear LCD into a large viewfinder - not sure if something like that would help you for your particular usage, but it solves the problem. You can also buy shades if it's just the light you want to mitigate.














Jan 02, 2018 at 03:56 PM
suteetat
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
There are numerous parts of the camera that would have to change physically as well as many current lenses to improve focus spread significantly, so it's not going to happen with current designs.

First, the entire optical path from the smaller secondary mirror to the AF sensor, including the AF sensor itself, would need to be enlarged significantly, which would be difficult and likely pose many new engineering problems on the bodies we're used to. The entire camera would have to be redesigned. If you could just slap in a larger AF sensor everyone would be doing that.

Secondly, and perhaps most
...Show more

This would be where hybrid viewfinder with CDAF/PDAF on sensor become handy so you could switch between OVF/EVF depending on your need, I supposed.





Jan 03, 2018 at 12:41 AM
 

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charles.K
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


I agree a hybrid viewfinder maybe a great intermediary step before fully MILC. I suspect many would prefer this and still be able to use the full array of lenses without adapting.


Jan 03, 2018 at 12:44 AM
MDJAK
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


I sold my Canon gear, 1Dx2, etc, thinking I was getting out of the hobby. I then succumbed and bought the A7r3 and couple of lenses. Well, for all the good it has going for it, itís not for me. I want the D850. And I want it now.


Jan 03, 2018 at 01:35 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


No viewfinder will ever be WYSIWYG.

That would require the ability to predict the future. No technology will ever manage that.

Namely an EVF isnt color graded, doesnt have the dynamic range of the sensor, doesnt have the same shutter speed (unless it happends to be 1/60 or whatever frequency the EVF is running at), has lag, has problems with artificial light, has rolling shutter/yello, etc etc etc etc.

All the EVF offers in this respect over an OVF is that the framing will always be 100% precise and if white balance is really off, you can see that.



CanadaMark wrote:
Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, if the AF spread were much wider, some lenses would simply render outside AF points useless. The AF sensors are positioned in line with the lens' exit pupil. On some lenses (mostly slower ones), the lens barrel would block those AF sensors from seeing through the necessary spot of the exit pupil and you would lose functionality of that AF point completely. Some lenses could accommodate a larger AF sensor spread (like fast primes), but many other lenses would not play nicely with such a design and Nikon would never release a high profile DSLR
...Show more
Doesnt compile.

If this was true, please explain the Nikon D500. Nikon had no issue to cover almost the complete sensor with AF points.

And yes you need f2.8 for using all AF sensors. Thats how it has always been. Nothing new there. Doesnt stop anyone from putting AF points into the outer parts of the image.



Jan 03, 2018 at 08:00 AM
kaplah
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Sauseschritt wrote:
[...]
If this was true, please explain the Nikon D500.
[...]

It's a crop sensor. My understanding is the full coverage with the F-mount on a full-frame can't be done.




Jan 03, 2018 at 02:49 PM
chez
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Sauseschritt wrote:
No viewfinder will ever be WYSIWYG.

That would require the ability to predict the future. No technology will ever manage that.

Namely an EVF isnt color graded, doesnt have the dynamic range of the sensor, doesnt have the same shutter speed (unless it happends to be 1/60 or whatever frequency the EVF is running at), has lag, has problems with artificial light, has rolling shutter/yello, etc etc etc etc.

All the EVF offers in this respect over an OVF is that the framing will always be 100% precise and if white balance is really off, you can see that.



There are many more advantages to an EVF than judt 100% coverage. Manual focus using either focus peaking or zoomed focusing makes it much easier to do than with an OVF. By setting up the jpeg parameters, you can judge exposure much better than with an OVF...not exact but much more accurate than what is available with an OVF. I can set up my EVF to give me better ETTR metering than what I could using an OVF with the exposure histogram. Using the feedback from the EVF, I can more accurately compensate exposre than what I ever could using OVF's.

Bottom line, I don't chimp anymore as I can see what I'll get before I press the shutter. I still see many...almost all photographers chomping with their OVF...because you don't know what the shot will look like until after you press the shutter.



Jan 03, 2018 at 03:15 PM
CanadaMark
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Sauseschritt wrote:
Doesnt compile.

If this was true, please explain the Nikon D500. Nikon had no issue to cover almost the complete sensor with AF points.

And yes you need f2.8 for using all AF sensors. Thats how it has always been. Nothing new there. Doesnt stop anyone from putting AF points into the outer parts of the image.


The D500 is a crop sensor, the AF coverage is identical to the D5/D850. That AF module on a smaller sensor will of course cover almost 100%, and on a larger sensor cover much less. Think of it like if you had a 8'X10' rug that you wanted to put in a room. If you put that rug in a 9'X11' room it would cover almost all of the floor, but if you put it in a larger room it would obviously cover much less area and look much smaller, but the rug's size does not change.

You cannot increase the AF coverage area of a FF camera significantly from where it is now for the reasons described above without changing the physical design of the camera.

You do not need F2.8 to use all AF sensors, Nikon's AF module looks at roughly a F5.6 area. You have never needed F2.8 glass to access all the AF sensors on Nikon cameras.



Jan 03, 2018 at 03:39 PM
Mark_L
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


chez wrote:
There are many more advantages to an EVF than judt 100% coverage. Manual focus using either focus peaking or zoomed focusing makes it much easier to do than with an OVF. By setting up the jpeg parameters, you can judge exposure much better than with an OVF...not exact but much more accurate than what is available with an OVF. I can set up my EVF to give me better ETTR metering than what I could using an OVF with the exposure histogram. Using the feedback from the EVF, I can more accurately compensate exposre than what I ever could using
...Show more

Yeah, the potential for EVFs is huge, just look at any video monitor which has focus peaking, false colour modes, live histograms etc. not to mention the size and no VF blackout. The SLR design is a dead end but mature.



Jan 03, 2018 at 04:51 PM
Vcook
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


in body IS is what we need.


Jan 03, 2018 at 05:19 PM
wjmeyer
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


CanadaMark wrote:
You can buy hoods with eye pieces that basically turn the rear LCD into a large viewfinder - not sure if something like that would help you for your particular usage, but it solves the problem. You can also buy shades if it's just the light you want to mitigate.

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1spRMRXXXXXXpapXXq6xXFXXXL/LCD-Screen-Protector-Pop-up-sun-Shade-lcd-Hood-Shield-Cover-for-Nikon-D810-D800-D810A.jpg_220x220.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NbIRjsKgL.jpg


It's not shading the LCD screen that is the issue, it is the distraction during certain events, would just like to be able to turn it off. I suppose I could use an external monitor, that is probably my best choice for these situations.



Jan 03, 2018 at 06:00 PM
CanadaMark
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Nikon D850 What more do you need?


Vcook wrote:
in body IS is what we need.


I don't think you will ever see them do that with a traditional DSLR. It adds too much complexity to the body, especially with regards to how PDAF and metering work. Lens stabilization is much more effective. As focal length gets longer, IBIS becomes exponentially less effective. IBIS also does not stabilize the viewfinder which is a huge advantage of lens-based systems. Lens stabilization can also be tuned specifically for each individual lens and each application (i.e. macro or shooting from a moving platform).

For legacy shooters (film), their only option for stabilization is also lens-based.

The IBIS advantage of course is it would work with older, shorter focal length lenses (where it is still appreciated but overall less important) but more and more lenses these days of all focal lengths are getting stabilization anyway.



Jan 03, 2018 at 06:29 PM
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