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D850 has my attention
  
 
Colin F
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D850 has my attention


As some of you may recall, I recently sold my Canon 500 f/4 IS, and I'm in a ďtesting modeĒ to see if I can be happy with the Tamron 150-600 G2 in consort with the 5D4. Bolted to this newer, higher MP FF body, it seems to be doing quite well, whereas the 7DII requires really good light. I have to say that I'm enjoying very much the:

- Smaller package

- Lighter weight

- Much shorter Minimum Focus Distance

- Hand-hold-ability, especially not feeling beat after walking around with it

- Having some zoom capability.

Iím so much more agile with this lens, that Iím actually getting more shots overall, as I donít have to attempt to quickly move a big, heavy, gangly tripod. Itís been so refreshing, that I actually donít see myself buying another big prime, although I could change my mind on that in the future. You know how it goes.

But now with the Nikon D850 on the stage, Iím starting to wonder if that body with the Nikon 200-500 (or Tamron 150-600 G2) might be quite a deadly setup, due to both the added MP (even more than 5D4), and especially the absence of an AA filter. I also like the faster QXD card, and 9 FPS (with battery grip). All together, it seems very alluring.

So for those of you who are familiar with the Nikon world, what do you think of that combo for birds? Seems like it might be a great way to go if one didnít want to own & use a big prime. I keep hearing about the AF of the Nikon being inferior to Canonís Dual Pixel AF, but can someone explain to me how exactly it's inferior in real world shooting? (I donít do video).

Given that Iím now ďless marriedĒ or invested in the Canon world with the sale of my 500, I would only have 5 Canon lenses to sell, although letting go of the 50mm f/1.2 would be tough.

Any thoughts/opinions/advice?


Thanks



Edited on Sep 04, 2017 at 11:11 PM · View previous versions



Aug 30, 2017 at 01:27 PM
ggreene
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D850 has my attention


At this point Canon doesn't have equivalents to either the D850 or the 200-500/5.6 so there really isn't much to say. You either wait and hope a 5DSRmk2 ups the FPS and the mythical 200-600 arrives or switch to Nikon if your GAS is high.

As far as DPAF is concerned isn't that a video AF mode? If you don't do video there is no advantage.

I think Nikon is in the lead for AF. At least from my D500/7D2 comparison, especially in 3D mode.



Aug 30, 2017 at 01:44 PM
rattlebonez
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D850 has my attention


Good to see Nikon creating a serious camera that meets the needs of a wide range of photographers

in late 2017 the D850 lacks a GPS !
WTF was Nikon thinking when this would be a popular landscape camera?

I also don't understand the $400+ add on battery to go from 7 fps to 9 fps. That should have been integrated

Yes, lets hope this spurs Canon to up the game on the 5DS/5DSR replacement

I use the GP-E2 GPS with the 5DS and it works fine. no issue. But any new release camera should have a GPS
I find the Image Quality of the 5DS to be fine and have no reason to consider the D850




Aug 30, 2017 at 03:55 PM
Colin F
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D850 has my attention


rattlebonez wrote:
In late 2017 the D850 lacks a GPS !
WTF was Nikon thinking when this would be a popular landscape camera?


That might be true for many landscape photographers, but not for me, I've never used battery-killing GPS.



I also don't understand the $400+ add on battery to go from 7 fps to 9 fps. That should have been integrated

Agreed. One has to buy the battery grip (battery not included); battery; charger. In Canada, this will be about $1000.00 extra.


I find the Image Quality of the 5DS to be fine and have no reason to consider the D850

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that the higher ISO capabilities of the 5DS are quite poor (same as 7DII) by comparison to the 850?




Aug 30, 2017 at 04:02 PM
scalesusa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D850 has my attention


ggreene wrote:
As far as DPAF is concerned isn't that a video AF mode? If you don't do video there is no advantage.

.


Wrong.

DPAF is for stills and for video. Don't spread false information, if you don't know, why advertise it?




Aug 30, 2017 at 04:23 PM
NCAndy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D850 has my attention


Sometime within the next year I expect Canon will update the 5Ds(r) and I would think improve the low ISO dynamic range as well as add some pixels. Whether they choose to up the FPS is unknown but I would think it would stay on the low end. My interest in the Nikon D850 is that it ups the competition and that can't be bad.

Here is a chart comparing the dynamic range of the 5Ds, 7D2, and D850.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205DS%20R,Canon%20EOS%207D%20Mark%20II,Nikon%20D850



Aug 30, 2017 at 04:43 PM
rattlebonez
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D850 has my attention


No, it would be false to say the 5DS/5DSR higher ISO capabilities are poor. If I expose correctly and process with DXO Optics Pro Elite 11 and prime noise reduction the images come out with good image quality.

The point is to get out and take real world photographs exposed correctly and processed correctly.
Not look at theoretical charts on the net and make assumptions about cameras having poor ISO.

If you have GAS and need the latest tech buy the D850



Aug 30, 2017 at 04:55 PM
Colin F
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D850 has my attention


^^^ I guess I was referring to shooting birds, where often high ISO settings are required to achieve a high shutter speed. I dare not go over 1600 with the 7DII, but can go much higher with 5D4.

Edited on Aug 30, 2017 at 05:15 PM · View previous versions



Aug 30, 2017 at 05:01 PM
Mark K
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D850 has my attention


I had the similar thoughts in 2012 when D800 was launched. Paid some 4K for the body and only too late to find out all my old D lenses were made for the film only.
What attracted me at that time was the crop mode available in D800, that said 1.2x, 1.5x which are very convenient for wild life shooting. Later, I continued to invest in F mount optics, cameras including D750, D500mm and those usual f2.8 zooms, telephoto lenses including 150-600S, 600f4

Image quality is great. With their great dynamic range, Nikon makes use of the best sensors they can source and make them even better.
Lenses are not as easy to choose as EF mount. I have to say I my 150-600S is better built and sharper than my buddy's Nikon's 200-500..and the 800f5.6 is far more expensive than Canon's 800. Similar rules apply to other telephoto lenses.
So it is always safer to stay with Canon with better camera build quality, better lens build quality and relatively lower prices.



Aug 30, 2017 at 05:10 PM
ZachOly
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D850 has my attention


The D850 is cool. But you've got to imagine Canon is going to update the 5DsR to match it.

Add in the cool sensor tech from the 5D4 and the differences between the two will be a wash (again).

Also bank on a new 50L 1.4 IS for 2018 and the Canon lens lineup will be looking pretty unbeatable.



Aug 30, 2017 at 05:41 PM
 

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rscheffler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D850 has my attention


rattlebonez wrote:
In late 2017 the D850 lacks a GPS !

I also don't understand the $400+ add on battery to go from 7 fps to 9 fps. That should have been integrated


Colin F wrote:
Agreed. One has to buy the battery grip (battery not included); battery; charger. In Canada, this will be about $1000.00 extra.


There's probably a technical reason unless one is cynical and thinks it's just a ploy to sell more stuff (which might be possible).

If you consider the primary buyer of the D850 is already shooting Nikon and may also own the D5, therefore already has the battery and charger, it would be looked upon as a bonus being able to use already existing kit and not having to carry two different battery and charger types. It also makes sense for Nikon to use an existing battery type that is capable of delivering the required power.

And if one doesn't already own the D5, the added cost closes the gap and makes the extra expense of the D5 a bit less of a leap, should one be favoring higher fps capability over higher MP.

Anyway, there are aspects of the D850 that interest me as a Canon user, but not enough for a purchase or a system switch. I'd definitely like to see a higher frame rate approaching 10fps from the 5DS series, along with much deeper buffer. Or a ~40MP 1DX series.



Aug 30, 2017 at 05:47 PM
molson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D850 has my attention


Colin F wrote:
That might be true for many landscape photographers, but not for me, I've never used battery-killing GPS.



If you had, you would know it has no noticeable effect on battery life in the current cameras like the 5D IV - and if that isn't enough, Canon also offers a separate GP-E2 unit which runs off its own battery (and doesn't block the cable release socket like on the Nikons).



Aug 30, 2017 at 06:01 PM
Colin F
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D850 has my attention


rscheffler wrote:
There's probably a technical reason unless one is cynical and thinks it's just a ploy to sell more stuff (which might be possible).

If you consider the primary buyer of the D850 is already shooting Nikon and may also own the D5, therefore already has the battery and charger, it would be looked upon as a bonus being able to use already existing kit and not having to carry two different battery and charger types. It also makes sense for Nikon to use an existing battery type that is capable of delivering the required power.

And if one doesn't already own the
...Show more


Good points. I just remember coming from the ~20 MP of a 6D and 7DII to the 30 MP of the 5D4 and was surprised at what that gave, so the ~47 MP of the 850, combined with the absence of the AA filter somehow seems like it would be considerably "better".




Aug 30, 2017 at 06:02 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D850 has my attention


ZachOly wrote:
The D850 is cool. But you've got to imagine Canon is going to update the 5DsR to match it.

Add in the cool sensor tech from the 5D4 and the differences between the two will be a wash (again).

Also bank on a new 50L 1.4 IS for 2018 and the Canon lens lineup will be looking pretty unbeatable.


I do not think they will match it because of how Canon protects the 1-series. Already they protect it to the point that they exclude features found in $400 cameras from all other bodies. The D850 has the exact same AF and dedicated back-end processing as the D5. Canon will never put 1-series AF in a cheaper camera unless they completely change their policy (which I hope they do, but I don't expect). My guess is that the 5DSR successor continues the strategy of being the highest MP camera, because that gives Canon a key specification to hang on to while they hold back other features like AF, competitive low ISO DR, FPS, etc.



Aug 30, 2017 at 08:36 PM
ZachOly
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D850 has my attention


A 50MP 5D4 with a flip screen, slap a 5DsRII badge on it and call it a day.


Aug 30, 2017 at 09:03 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D850 has my attention


Colin, I will say that I am considering the D850 to go with my 200-500 and it would be to replace my D500. But I'm only interested at 9FPS to almost match the 10FPS in the D500. This of course brings up the additional cost you mentioned for grip, battery, charger and end cap (don't forget that overpriced 25c piece of plastic selling for $29) This cost of entry is why I have yet to order one and continue to mull over the decision.

DPAF is for LV stills and video. No affect on regular through the VF shooting. Nikon's new AF system (D5, D500, D850) is very good. I really like using it. However, it isn't noticeably better than the 5D4 you shoot with now. Some things are a bit better on the AF of the Nikon and some things a bit better on the AF of the Canon.

As to the 5DSR2, If Canon ups the MP count I can't see it going more than 6FPS and likely will stay at 5FPS. If they don't up the MPs and just give it the better DR sensor and newer processing (maybe a faster card slot also) then I could see maximum 7FPS. Canon would be very unlikely to give a 9FPS option with a grip or with a DX crop as they have never done so in the past with any body.

Therefore I think a future 5DSR2 will likely satisfy people after landscapes and max resolution and will have DR to match the D850 down to ISO 100 (but still lack the ISO 64 improvement). It won't ever be a "do it all" camera like the D850 because it won't have the higher FPS option.



Aug 30, 2017 at 10:10 PM
takowasa
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D850 has my attention


arbitrage wrote:
Therefore I think a future 5DSR2 will likely satisfy people after landscapes and max resolution and will have DR to match the D850 down to ISO 100 (but still lack the ISO 64 improvement). It won't ever be a "do it all" camera like the D850 because it won't have the higher FPS option.


The 5DSR is $3700 whereas the D850 is $3300. What might a 5DSR2 come in at?



Aug 30, 2017 at 11:33 PM
IndyFab
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D850 has my attention


I have a 7DII and Sig C150-600 and 5DIV with the 500II. For me the 5DIV combination is lighter than the 7DII combination. You must of haved the 500 MK I which is considerably heaver than the 500II

I always said, I cant wait to see what the new 5Dsr II features, specs, and improved sensor will bring...

However the D850 and 200-500 is interesting, just depends on the actual specs of the camera

Also as ggreen mentioned " You either wait and hope a 5DSRmk2 ups the FPS and the mythical 200-600"



Aug 30, 2017 at 11:43 PM
Colin F
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D850 has my attention


IndyFab wrote:
I have a 7DII and Sig C150-600 and 5DIV with the 500II. For me the 5DIV combination is lighter than the 7DII combination. You must of haved the 500 MK I which is considerably heaver than the 500II


Yes, I had the "previous" IS version (8.5 lb), but your weight claims don't quite make sense.

7DII @ 2 lb + Sigma 150-600 C @ 4.3 lb = 6.3 lb

5D4 @ 1.96 lb + Canon 500 f/4 II @ 7 lb = a hair under 9 lb




Also as ggreen mentioned "You either wait and hope a 5DSRmk2 ups the FPS and the mythical 200-600"

I can't see them uping the FPS much on the 5DS, besides, the ISO performance isn't good enough for me. Yes, if I jump ship and then Canon releases the 200-600, I'll be frosted.




Aug 31, 2017 at 01:33 AM
Jim Turner
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D850 has my attention


My local camera store salesman told me the D850 would be a very poor handheld camera because of the number of MP's. I don't see where he is coming from. What's the reaction of the forum?



Aug 31, 2017 at 02:16 AM
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