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Canon to Fuji and back to Canon
  
 
Pfisch907
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


In the eyes of the internet and it's amazing ability to paint everything as black or white, it seems, right now, Fuji is the greatest thing ever and Canon is dog shit. Speaking from my own experience, I recently bought into the hype and switched out my 5D Mark III for an X-T2 along with a 56 1.2 and 23 1.4. Amazing lenses, amazing camera, amazing images, but they don't hold a candle to the image quality of full frame. It's just a fact. Yes, in terms of technical features the Fuji is way ahead of my old Mark III, probably even the Mark IV, but when it comes to flexibility to create an image with excellent quality in any condition a full frame DSLR still can't be beat. Yes, medium format shooters will laugh at the idea of best IQ from full frame (let's not even get into large format shooters), but in terms of IQ, handling and speed nothing nails that intersection better than full frame.

Needless to say I sold the X-T2 and lenses after two months along with my 5D and picked up a 5DS. This camera took a lot of shit when it was new and no it doesn't check all the boxes, but it works for me and the IQ is out of this world. My question is, does anybody think that Canon eventually gives into this idea that new things make everything that came before it garbage and release a 5D (or something else) with all the latest tech just to satisfy these vocal critics? Or are they comfortable just to ride it out as the market leader and keep on their steady pace of modest but reliable upgrades?



Aug 29, 2017 at 06:44 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


This was exactly the reson why I never bought into the Fuji mirrorless system - I made my experience with APS-C cropped sensors when starting off with digital DSLR in 2005, and I was so glad to switch to FF with the arrival of the 5D MkII. Since then I never had any intent to go back to a cropped sensor based camera. Unfortunately regarding FF mirrorless, you currently have only two options - Leica or Sony. Leica is still in a different price range, but Sony gets closer with every new A7 version to this high margin due to their monopoly in this segment. I switched mostly to FF mirrorless with the arrival of the A7 series and never looked back.

Too bad that Fuji made the decision not to go after FF mirrorless - a mystery to me regarding the success Sony has with the A7 series.



Aug 29, 2017 at 07:02 PM
artificialyello
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


retrofocus wrote:
This was exactly the reson why I never bought into the Fuji mirrorless system - I made my experience with APS-C cropped sensors when starting off with digital DSLR in 2005, and I was so glad to switch to FF with the arrival of the 5D MkII. Since then I never had any intent to go back to a cropped sensor based camera. Unfortunately regarding FF mirrorless, you currently have only two options - Leica or Sony. Leica is still in a different price range, but Sony gets closer with every new A7 version to this high margin due to
...Show more

The GFX sensor is 43.8 32.9mm and that ain't that much bigger than the 24 x 36mm of a 35mm full frame. 70% larger!!! If that was FF than FF would be half frame! Crop factor 0.79... Took me twice to get that right!! :-p No need for FF! :-))

http://shuttermuse.com/fujifilm-gfx-crop-factor-and-gf-lens-35mm-full-frame-equivalent-focal-lengths/



Aug 29, 2017 at 07:21 PM
drewmey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


As a now Fuji shooter, not trying to bash anyone, but I never understood why people thought or claimed that the X-T2 would be better then modern FF cameras. If they had some magic sauce, what is keeping the other manufacturer's from copying it? Dumb marketing and not so smart purchasing decisions being made by some folks.

You buy into the Fuji X system for several reasons:
1. Size/weight. I use my camera 3-4 times more now that I have sold my 6D for an X-T2 (I am also a better photographer having practiced more...due to having my camera more...)
2. Superior feature set (EVF/WYSIWYG, face detection, eye detection, 4k video, zebras, focus peaking, built in intervolometer, auto bracketing of up to 9 exposures with any EV, etc.)
3. "Superior" controls (I find them superior, others don't. Note: superior does NOT have to mean faster, maybe more fluid, more logical, more customizeable). Joy stick, aperture on lenses, SS dial, ISO dial, more FN buttons or at least buttons that can be customized even if they aren't actually FN buttons.
4. Money (Sometimes...doesn't hold true with Fuji flagship but does the lower models. I personally feel the X-E/X-T20 line is better value than Rebel/Dxx00 lines due to far superior lenses.

And finally my favorite that everyone on a gear forum hates to hear...
5. You realized that you don't need FF...99% of people who read this (me included) would be perfectly fine with APS-C. Top commenters on FM are not the typical people...we have budgets! Your money is better spent on having a lens that you couldn't otherwise afford with FF, a better tripod, more lighting, internet tutorial videos and books, etc. Look in a mirror and tell yourself that a FF body and expensive set of lenses is the best way to invest in your hobby...I couldn't. When I master composition/lighting/technique/post work, I'll take a look at FF again.

Buying into Fuji because you expect it's quality to be better than your full frame setup is just, ....(won't say to be nice). My opinion after trying it out for a while is that it is probably as good or better than any other APS-C lines (due to lenses). A comparison to APS-H might be warranted.


Edited on Aug 29, 2017 at 08:05 PM · View previous versions



Aug 29, 2017 at 07:33 PM
gregfountain
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


I think for some of us, it's really about what you need vs what you want. I love my Canon gear, but I decided to sell it and go Fuji; perhaps for different reasons as you. While I've made money selling prints in the past, I don't make a living as a photographer, so my need for absolute reliability isn't there - which is one of Canon's greatest attributes. The main attraction for me is, now that Fuji seems to have fixed their focusing issues and allows me to adjust aperture and shutter speed via the command dials, is the drop in weight and bulk.

As for Canon's plan...who knows? They have a loyal base, an incredible lens line up, and for the most part, solid cameras used by a lot of pros. So perhaps they don't feel the need to rush anything out to match the technical advances made by others. Sony's are great, but they have a long way to go to build their lens catalog, and pretty much the same goes for Fuji, who seems to be targeting the crop and MF niches.

Anyway, I hope I made the right decision, but now that most of my gear is sold, I'll have to live with it.

Edited on Aug 29, 2017 at 09:48 PM · View previous versions



Aug 29, 2017 at 07:47 PM
Pfisch907
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


I think we pretty much agree. I never really expected the image quality to be better than a FF setup, but I'm trying to understand the never ending slew of YouTube videos and blog posts stating "I switched from Canon to Fuji and I'm never going back." I also don't think most of those videos/posts are being made solely to get clicks/views, which sometimes works better than we'd like to admit. Photography is a small part of my 9-5 and I do one or two side gigs a month, but I work with a lot of full-time, this-puts-food-on-my-table shooters and for the most part they're still on 5D Mk IIIs. I think most of the noise like "6D Mk II no 4K!!??" is coming from the enthusiast market. I just wonder if eventually that crowd becomes vocal enough to the point that Canon is like, OK we have to address this and slowly veers away from the pro market. And, if you think that can't happen, look at a company like Apple for whom two thirds of its existence relied heavily on the pro market and now it's been how long now since they released a truly "pro" computer?


Aug 29, 2017 at 08:20 PM
Pfisch907
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Apple for whom two thirds of its existence relied heavily on the pro market and now it's been how long now since they released a truly "pro" computer?

The more I think about it, this isn't a great analogy. Apple ditched the pro market because the consumer market made them into the biggest company ever. Whereas for Canon the consumer market cratered and now pros/enthusiasts are all they have left really.



Aug 29, 2017 at 08:35 PM
Mikehit
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Pfisch907 wrote:
Whereas for Canon the consumer market cratered and now pros/enthusiasts are all they have left really.


Really? You believe that Canon are the biggest ILC manufacturer with 50% of the market based on the enthusiast.pro sectors?




Aug 29, 2017 at 08:52 PM
drewmey
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Mikehit wrote:
Really? You believe that Canon are the biggest ILC manufacturer with 50% of the market based on the enthusiast.pro sectors?



I would say the consumer market has decreased in size due to finding cell phones, etc "good enough" 0 but the ones who are still buying are often choosing Canon. The enthusiasts are somewhat flocking other places a little.



Aug 29, 2017 at 08:58 PM
Pfisch907
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Really? You believe that Canon are the biggest ILC manufacturer with 50% of the market based on the enthusiast.pro sectors?

No, but the consumer market for standalone cameras is certainly not growing. Hasn't been for years.



Aug 29, 2017 at 09:41 PM
 

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George Orwell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Pfisch907 wrote:
In the eyes of the internet and it's amazing ability to paint everything as black or white, it seems, right now, Fuji is the greatest thing ever ....


Yes and it is quite sickening at times.





Aug 29, 2017 at 10:01 PM
George Orwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


drewmey wrote:
As a now Fuji shooter, not trying to bash anyone, but I never understood why people thought or claimed that the X-T2 would be better then modern FF cameras. If they had some magic sauce, what is keeping the other manufacturer's from copying it?


Why? Because Fujifilm early on stated that their X-Trans APS-C sensor was equal to a FF sensor. Their marketing materials were full of claims like this. Of course it's nonsense and in recent times those claims have fallen by the wayside. But early on when the X cameras were just getting off the ground, all one heard was the relentless droning from the Fujihadeen that FF cameras were on the way out and APS-C was the future.




Aug 29, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Pfisch907 wrote:
In the eyes of the internet and it's amazing ability to paint everything as black or white, it seems, right now, Fuji is the greatest thing ever and Canon is dog shit. Speaking from my own experience, I recently bought into the hype


George Orwell wrote:
Yes and it is quite sickening at times.


GeoO: Right ... physically sickening ... internet blather. Man up. Willingly suspending responsibility for one's own gear decisions in favor of internet chatter in place of one's own hands-on, physical assessment is the sad thing, not the existence of internet hyperbole. Your reaction is misplaced. You don't like Fuji and its support base? Don't follow it. No need to read it. Perhaps you'll feel better.

OP: Fuji's "amazing" you say, so FF must be "amazing-er." I get your point. You like that 5Ds. I like my 5Ds too, but when I put an X-T1 in my littlest bag as a daily carry, I'm glad I have it.

Re Canon's pace of camera body upgrades, I view it in the context of their entire product line, especially the range of glass they offer, and I'm happy to wait on them. That new range of ts-e lenses looks phenomenal, and the new 85/1.4L is priced pretty well, just to cite two recent examples of excellent product development.



Aug 29, 2017 at 10:24 PM
Pfisch907
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


Fuji's "amazing" you say, so FF must be "amazing-er." I get your point. So, when are you going back to that 5D, Canon glass, and FF goodness?

I think you're making my point... it's ok to think two things are "amazing" and have one suit you better. And I did mention that I am back to Canon. 5DS to be exact. A camera that didn't deserve half the flack it received, but that's ok because there's a ton of low price/low shutter count ones available second hand



Aug 29, 2017 at 10:52 PM
molson
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


I liked a lot of things about the Fuji system, but not this...





Rainbow Flare

  X-T1    XF10-24mmF4 R OIS lens    10mm    f/22.0    1/45s    200 ISO    -1.0 EV  




Aug 29, 2017 at 11:11 PM
drewmey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


George Orwell wrote:
Why? Because Fujifilm early on stated that their X-Trans APS-C sensor was equal to a FF sensor. Their marketing materials were full of claims like this. Of course it's nonsense and in recent times those claims have fallen by the wayside. But early on when the X cameras were just getting off the ground, all one heard was the relentless droning from the Fujihadeen that FF cameras were on the way out and APS-C was the future.



Thank you for selectively choosing where to end my quote. Notice how I stated "dumb marketing" and not intelligent purchasing decisions. Who cares what any manufacturer says about anything? Their sole purpose and goal is to get you to buy their products. That is their purpose. I only believe what 3rd party tests, personal experience and results show...not someone who is trying to sell me something.

FF will always be better than APS-C. A sensor array isn't going to change this because you could always have a FF X-Trans in theory. It is the need for the difference between the two that drops every year and will continue to do so whether it be fast or slow.



Aug 30, 2017 at 01:12 AM
artificialyello
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


The success of the Fuji X-Trans cameras shows that there is a demand for rugged half frame systems. To bad that Canon has yet to fill that gap. Would be easy with a sealed M7 and some ditto lenses... :-))


Aug 30, 2017 at 05:49 AM
justruss
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


George Orwell wrote:
Yes and it is quite sickening at times.



Time to step away from the keyboard, youtube, and the forums. Other people getting excited/enthusiastic about their other gear/purchases makes you sick? The problem isn't them...

molson wrote:
I liked a lot of things about the Fuji system, but not this...


To be fair-- there's a lot of things about a lot of systems that you don't like that you do like complaining about.

I went 5D2 -> 5D2 + X-E1 -> 5D2 + X-E1 + A7rII -> A7rII.

The Fuji was great, but never replaced my Canon. My Sony replaced both. I never advocate wholesale system changes in place of overlap and evaluation over weeks or months. There are just too many factors-- far more than APS-C vs FF. For many, Canon DSLR to Sony A7rII would be a mistake. And the Sony has the IQ advantage by a country mile. It's a complicated process, dependent on many factors only a photographer can figure out for herself.



Aug 30, 2017 at 07:54 AM
charlyw
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


drewmey wrote:
You buy into the Fuji X system for several reasons:
...


And you don't buy it for two reasons:

A) Lying and cooniving marketing department that is deceiving customers with their outlandish and easily dis-proven claims...
B) X-trans sensor - and that's not even the first total and utter erratic development they provided and which fell far short of what A) claimed!

I once fell for them too, back in the early 2000's when their weird explanations why SCCD were all the rage and why they would be the magic sauce every manufacturer will eventually go for... And now x-trans sensors are the same all over again - with their claims again totally outrageous and totally bonkers to someone who knows even just a little bit of physics. But as you say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice - well Fuji doesn't get a chance to do just that...



Aug 30, 2017 at 11:31 AM
CMcG01
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon to Fuji and back to Canon


I never bought into Fuji marketing, just the products.

I have Canon and Fuji and mostly use my Fuji. They each have their place.



Aug 30, 2017 at 11:50 AM
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