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Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?
  
 
cajer
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


I am thinking about getting a Contax G 21mm with the Techart AF adapter, the MTF charts look amazing and I understand allot of the corner smearing issues have been fixed with the front filter solution.

I was wondering what everyone's experience with this lens is? Also I can't seem to find many samples images with this lens and the front end filter. Could someone share some?



Aug 25, 2017 at 01:58 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


I've been using it extensively since 2017. I sold my my Loxia 21 after I used it. No, it's not as strong technically, but it's good with beautiful rendering and colors and tiny. I've made some massive prints with it that held up wonderfully. I have a Nikon g20 that's also collecting dust. I use it on an A7rii. It's my favorite peice of gear in a while.










































Edited on Aug 25, 2017 at 06:26 PM · View previous versions



Aug 25, 2017 at 02:59 AM
cajer
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Those are some great pictures. I really like the picture of the dog and the green cliff.

The corners look pretty sharp, does this have the filter on?



Aug 25, 2017 at 03:06 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


posted my thoughts on it in another recent thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1502139/2#14134109


Aug 25, 2017 at 04:27 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


I find G21 technically very strong, DOF is ultra thin compared to all retrofocus 20-21mm lenses I have ever shoot, while boke is also good. On landscapes it's also very good. As I don't have A7r mkII I don't know how color casts on edges work with that, but with A7, A7r and A7mkII this lens needs FlatField plugin for every photo.

I have shoot the lens with standard cameras (1500mm PCX reversed) and Kolari v2 modified cameras (2000mm PCX). I like it more on Kolari v2, due to better suitability for boke-shooting. For landscapes both seem similar (and unlike nehemiahphoto I have no complain on "technical" side, my copy of G21 with front filters is very sharp and contrast very high).

I had it with me on summer holiday, but I have not yet processed the photos. So I only found 7 photos, shoot during trying to understand the front filter performance, before the summer - I think I have posted all of these in FE thread, at least majority of them:


Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/8.0, 1/15s, A7mkII @ ISO 160, OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM Reversed (I may have used some polarizer as well, not sure - FlatField plugin was not used, should have but didn't)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/5.6, 1/100s, A7mkII @ ISO 125, OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM Reversed (FlatField was also not used for this)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/11.0, 1/640s, A7mkII @ ISO 200, OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM Reversed (FlatField plugin was used)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/2.8, 1/640s, A7mkII @ ISO 80, OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM Reversed (FlatField was used)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/4.0, 1/640s, A7mkII @ ISO 100, OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM Reversed (FlatField plugin was used)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/2.8, 1/200s, A7 (Kolari v2) @ ISO 80, OptoSigma SLB-50-2000PM (This in on Kolari v2 modified camera using 2000mm PCX - I still can't believe how good this lens is with this camera and front filter, I don't know any ultrawide which can have this kind of DOF-separation and boke quality, this kind of performance is the reason why G21 has become my favorite ultrawide of all times. FlatField plugin was used)



Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.8/21 G @ f/2.8, 1/80s, A7 (Kolari v2) @ ISO 80, OptoSigma SLB-50-2000PM (Again with this combo boke/separation is something I find hard to believe this is ultrawide lens. FlatField plugin was used.)


Samuli



Aug 25, 2017 at 04:38 AM
cajer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


The bokeh does look uncommonly good. It feels like there's more bokeh than there should be for a 21mm 2.8 lens. Also I though the reversed filter fixed most of the field curvature and color casting issues. Is that not the case?


Aug 25, 2017 at 01:57 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


cajer wrote:
The bokeh does look uncommonly good. It feels like there's more bokeh than there should be for a 21mm 2.8 lens. Also I though the reversed filter fixed most of the field curvature and color casting issues. Is that not the case?

Yes, I also don't yet understand how boke of G21 works. It seems to depend a lot of focusing distance, and what kind of texture/patterns there are in boke areas, and into which direction the pattern repeats.

Front filter does nothing to color cast issues. The light will still hit in enormous angle to sensor (actually to microlenses and CFA, which direct light to individual pixels) - the "role" of front filter is just to compensate the issues caused by enormous ray angle plus extra piece of thick glass in optical path. In addition to color casts on edges/corners (=where majority of rays will hit in large angle) there is extra vignetting, because microlenses and CFA is not able to steer all the light to sensor.

Color casts and above mentioned vignetting are much improved in A7r mkII. I have been planning to get one more camera body (a7r mkII), and convert it to Kolari Ultra Thin (UT). I have been waiting the prices to drop due to "new toy" A9 in market, but it seems that A7r mkII is still really expensive. I don't care any autofocus features, apps etc. crap or 42Mpix, so I'm really hesitant to pay so much for camera body, just for better "ray angle performance".

Samuli




Aug 25, 2017 at 02:29 PM
Mathieu18
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Samuli, can you share your filter setup for the G21? I have the OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM but it's already mounted in the 46mm - 55 step up and 55-52 step down. What config would I need to put it on the 55mm thread of the G21?


Aug 25, 2017 at 02:37 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Mathieu18 wrote:
Samuli, can you share your filter setup for the G21? I have the OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM but it's already mounted in the 46mm - 55 step up and 55-52 step down. What config would I need to put it on the 55mm thread of the G21?

Matt, I have G21 filter setup build like this:
1. G21 Lens
2. OptoSigma sitting in top of G21 front "plate" (=where it says "Carl Zeiss", "Biogon T* 2.8/21" and serial number)
[not part of stack: short pieces of rubber band to center the OptoSigma in middle of the lens front "plate")]
3. Retention ring from 55mm filter INSIDE empty 55mm Kenko UV-filter frame

I did spend 2 months and 50+ EUR to order all kind of possible 55mm (and 52mm) filters from eBay to get enough retention rings, which will hold the OptoSigma lenses in place. I have 35cmm (13.78inches) pile of 55/52mm filter frames on my desk - BTW. >80% of 55mm filter retention rings have too big inside diameter to hold the OptoSigma, prepare for disappointments if you take this approach...

Samuli



Aug 25, 2017 at 02:59 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Mathieu18 wrote:
Samuli, can you share your filter setup for the G21? I have the OptoSigma SLB-50-1500PM but it's already mounted in the 46mm - 55 step up and 55-52 step down. What config would I need to put it on the 55mm thread of the G21?


you can just take out the 46-55mm step ring from your setup for use on the g21 (that's what i did).



Aug 25, 2017 at 03:32 PM
 

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Mathieu18
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Thanks. Think it would vignette if you used the 55>52 step down ring instead of that retention ring? Otherwise any idea what filter you'd recommend to pull the donor retention ring off of? Or just need to get lucky?

Very tempted to complete my set of G lenses...

Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Matt, I have G21 filter setup build like this:
1. G21 Lens
2. OptoSigma sitting in top of G21 front "plate" (=where it says "Carl Zeiss", "Biogon T* 2.8/21" and serial number)
[not part of stack: short pieces of rubber band to center the OptoSigma in middle of the lens front "plate")]
3. Retention ring from 55mm filter INSIDE empty 55mm Kenko UV-filter frame

I did spend 2 months and 50+ EUR to order all kind of possible 55mm (and 52mm) filters from eBay to get enough retention rings, which will hold the OptoSigma lenses in place. I have 35cmm (13.78inches) pile of 55/52mm
...Show more




Aug 25, 2017 at 03:33 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Mathieu18 wrote:
Thanks. Think it would vignette if you used the 55>52 step down ring instead of that retention ring? Otherwise any idea what filter you'd recommend to pull the donor retention ring off of? Or just need to get lucky?

Yes, 55->52 stepdown is out of the question for hard vignetting - which gets worse if you add step-up ring to 82mm for polarizer (I shoot most of the time with polarizer, unless it's those rare times when there blue sky in picture). And I can't give advice - this far similar looking eBay filters have had huge variance on the inner diameter of retention ring. Also many times eBay photo shows that retention ring is thick (=one would assume based on looks that internal diameter is <50.0mm, but then actual filters come and their retention ring looks thin and retention ring is >51.5mm.

Also had many cases that eBay photo shows that there is front retention ring, but actual filters have retention ring on back. On those cases in theory you can start complaining that item was not like described, but it's a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to explain to non-English cabable Chinese eBay seller that you actually needed only retention ring, and filter is different than in photos "please refund my $0.99"...

On the front filter thread I think I recommended some special item in eBay, but then ordered it again and on the next batch all retention rings were too large. So one really can't trust eBay "quality".

Mathieu18 wrote:
Very tempted to complete my set of G lenses...

I'm really happy to shoot with few "combos", where G-lenses are the key element. My recent favourite has been to put G21 (w/ 2000mm PCX) and G28 (w/2500mm PCX) to Kolari v2 modified A7 bodies, and shoot long end with Loxia 50 and Loxia 85 on non-modified cameras. As a 3 lens compact set G21, ZM2/35 and Loxia 85 is really great combo. Of course "pure" G-series set G21, G28, G45 and G90 is really nice to shoot as well - thou for me it has been slightly problematic as I only have 2 camera bodies with Kolari v2 modification, and 2 bodies have standard thick sensor and for boke shooting also G45 and G90 need Kolari v2 (or front filter correction, but I have not found well working combo - with G45 the 5000mm PCX is not bad, but bare lens with Kolari v2 modifed camera is clearly better).


Samuli



Aug 25, 2017 at 04:30 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?



Mathieu18 wrote:
Thanks. Think it would vignette if you used the 55>52 step down ring instead of that retention ring? Otherwise any idea what filter you'd recommend to pull the donor retention ring off of? Or just need to get lucky?


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Yes, 55->52 stepdown is out of the question for hard vignetting.

Samuli


nah, worked fine more me with no change in vignetting (the step down ring has a 52mm retaining ring in it to hold the filter against the nameplate), and Mathieu is using my old filter + step down ring.




Aug 25, 2017 at 05:25 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


cajer wrote:
Those are some great pictures. I really like the picture of the dog and the green cliff.

The corners look pretty sharp, does this have the filter on?


Thank you--yes this is filtered.

Has anyone tested this for astro?



Aug 25, 2017 at 06:27 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


sebboh wrote:
nah, worked fine more me with no change in vignetting (the step down ring has a 52mm retaining ring in it to hold the filter against the nameplate), and Mathieu is using my old filter + step down ring.

Hmmm, weird. In beginning everyone tried Leica Elpro retention rings - me too. That ring is really thick and inner diameter really small - my memory might mix to that one.

Samuli



Aug 25, 2017 at 07:11 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Hmmm, weird. In beginning everyone tried Leica Elpro retention rings - me too. That ring is really thick and inner diameter really small - my memory might mix to that one.

Samuli


i used the same setup Haruhiko used when he first introduced this to the forum: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1453834/0#13751769



Aug 25, 2017 at 08:24 PM
Mathieu18
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


With code Film08e, KEH has a Black G21 for 679 today. Please someone remove this temptation for me.


Aug 25, 2017 at 08:29 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


sebboh wrote:
i used the same setup Haruhiko used when he first introduced this to the forum: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1453834/0#13751769

Derek, you are right that setup does not vignette. However that setup limits filter usage, because there is barely any filter thread visible and because of that if one could attach step-up ring for filter it will definitely cause hard corner vignetting. For me this is not useful as I shoot 90% of time with polarizer and/or ND-filter.

With 55mm empty filter method I described it's possible to attach 55->82mm step-up and then whatever 82mm filters to that. I have tested with thickest 82mm filters I have (B+W F-Pro polarizer 82mm + Hoya ND400X 82mm) and there is no additional vignetting or hard corner vignetting.

Samuli



Aug 25, 2017 at 08:48 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Derek, you are right that setup does not vignette. However that setup limits filter usage, because there is barely any filter thread visible and because of that if one could attach step-up ring for filter it will definitely cause hard corner vignetting. For me this is not useful as I shoot 90% of time with polarizer and/or ND-filter.

With 55mm empty filter method I described it's possible to attach 55->82mm step-up and then whatever 82mm filters to that. I have tested with thickest 82mm filters I have (B+W F-Pro polarizer 82mm + Hoya ND400X 82mm) and there is no additional
...Show more

you are correct, if you add a filter, even an ultra thin one it will vignette. i pretty much never use filters so it wasn't an issue.





Aug 25, 2017 at 09:12 PM
cajer
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Contax G 21mm Samples/Experience?


What's the best way to get a screw-on polarizer on the lens in addition to the PCX setup?


Aug 25, 2017 at 09:32 PM
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