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Nikon D850 officially announced!
  
 
Lee Saxon
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


CanadaMark wrote:
You are not getting any more data shooting uncompressed vs. lossless compressed - there is no reason whatsoever to do that unless you have an editing program that can't read normal RAWs. They are literally, mathematically, bit for bit identical. Absolutely nothing is lost by shooting lossless compressed so you might as well enjoy the space savings.


I've always wondered if there wouldn't be a performance difference in opening them, however. Like, one less decompression algorithm to run, even if the file overall is bigger? I have plenty of computing horsepower so I've never looked into it much myself.




Aug 30, 2017 at 11:18 PM
ffstory
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Lossless compressed is actually faster to process than uncompressed. Huffman encoding takes no time to process for even the slowest CPU and is easily offset by having to transfer slightly less data from the storage.

Since there is no software (10 years or newer) that can't read lossless compressed NEFs the uncompressed option is a relict of the past. I bet Nikon includes it to deliberately confuse people.




Aug 30, 2017 at 11:31 PM
jhinkey
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


CanadaMark wrote:
Interesting, it sounds like they don't actually know since they haven't answered either of your questions very clearly.


Yep, no direct answer to the questions means the person answering does not either understand the question and/or doesn't know the answer.




Aug 31, 2017 at 01:29 AM
Dj R
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


@CanadaMark
more from nikon


















Aug 31, 2017 at 04:35 AM
Ai_Print
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


wjmeyer wrote:
My first DSLR was a Canon 1D Mark II and my first CF card was a Sandisk 2GB (that's right - two gigabyte) that I paid just over $400 back in 2004 if I remember correctly.


My first DSLR was a Kodak / AP NC2000 1.3MP camera that used a 105MB Maxtor PCMCIA hard drive. The cameras cost our paper $16,400 each and the drives were about $400 in 1994. When the battery died in the camera, you could not remove it, you had to connect the whole camera to a charger. The storage being a hard drive got corrupted far too often so when flash memory arrived the following year, it really helped my sanity.

Maybe that is why I love printing black and white film in my darkroom more than ever, having shot digital for over 23 years, !




Aug 31, 2017 at 05:35 AM
Dj R
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


For nps folks. I fell there's a chance nikon is pre-drop shipping based on this language. Thoughts?

Once you confirm, our team will reach out to ADORAMA INC and let them know your camera will ship from Nikon and arrive sometime between September 7-14, 2017. Please feel free to communicate to the retailer in regards to your order.



Aug 31, 2017 at 08:09 AM
wjmeyer
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Ai_Print wrote:
My first DSLR was a Kodak / AP NC2000 1.3MP camera that used a 105MB Maxtor PCMCIA hard drive. The cameras cost our paper $16,400 each and the drives were about $400 in 1994. When the battery died in the camera, you could not remove it, you had to connect the whole camera to a charger. The storage being a hard drive got corrupted far too often so when flash memory arrived the following year, it really helped my sanity.

Maybe that is why I love printing black and white film in my darkroom more than ever, having shot digital for
...Show more

My old company had one of those Kodak's, it was revolutionary for its time but I had no idea they cost that much. They ended up closing down the photo department and when they did so they liquidated a bunch of gear and I recall seeing that Kodak among it all. Thankfully, the guy selling all the gear had no idea its value and I ended up getting a killer deal on a whole bunch of Hasselblad and Zeiss equipment. It was at that time that Denis Reggie convinced me to go digital, previously I had swore I would never go digital because I did not think it would ever match the quality of film, but the Canon 1D Mark II proved me wrong and I became a believer pretty quickly. Still shot B&W on film for a while though but never did my own darkroom work, always had my pro lab do that, now I've become quite proficient in the digital darkroom which I think was a difficult transition for many photographers through that era.

Part of my excitement with the new Nikon D850 is the ES-2 adapter and built in Negative Digitizer mode. I have thousands of slides and negatives from the pre-digital era that I've always pondered getting scanned and I really hope the D850 can do an amazing job at converting them because I'd love to scan all the negatives from my own wedding and finally give my wife the album she's always wanted



Aug 31, 2017 at 02:18 PM
Dj R
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Dj R wrote:
For nps folks. I fell there's a chance nikon is pre-drop shipping based on this language. Thoughts?

Once you confirm, our team will reach out to ADORAMA INC and let them know your camera will ship from Nikon and arrive sometime between September 7-14, 2017. Please feel free to communicate to the retailer in regards to your order.



fwiw I asked NPS and they declined to answer.
no big deal. just wanted you to know, don't bother asking.
the dealer may know and not worry about disclosing that answer, though.



Aug 31, 2017 at 03:25 PM
CanadaMark
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Lee Saxon wrote:
I've always wondered if there wouldn't be a performance difference in opening them, however. Like, one less decompression algorithm to run, even if the file overall is bigger? I have plenty of computing horsepower so I've never looked into it much myself.



My lossless compressed D810 NEFs open pretty well instantly, I can't even recall if I ever have tried with an uncompressed NEF because the file sizes are ridiculous and there is no reason to ever shoot uncompressed aside from the very specific scenarios previously mentioned. If there are speed gains while opening (which I very much doubt there are), they still would not outweigh having much smaller file sizes. Huge TIFF files much larger than an uncompressed NEF open very quickly too - I am guessing the difference between the files as far as opening speed is not even noticeable.



Aug 31, 2017 at 04:08 PM
carlitos
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


cvrle59 wrote:
If you're one of those, who think that bits are bits in digital music playback, I've got no much to discus about, sorry. Music is about timing, noise and tons of other things. I spent too much time experimenting with different computers, players, DEC's, cables and so on. Some enthusiasts wrote some minimalist players with minimum code in it, proving, how things matter and how they make the difference, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Theoretically, it's the same information, but one has to be unpacked on fly, and the other one does not, and that makes the difference.
...Show more

+1, and use non-rotating media, and battery source power supply, and you got something, again, altogether different.




Aug 31, 2017 at 04:28 PM
 

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cvrle59
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


carlitos wrote:
+1, and use non-rotating media, and battery source power supply, and you got something, again, altogether different.


This is completely off the topic, sorry, but I will not continue with the music no more, promising..
Yes, my "music" computer is carefully assembled, powered up with 3 separate batteries, 2 to motherboard, one to the special USB out[put card, plus , my DAC is powered by a battery too, 4 in total...
The player is a Linux custom written, and computer boots up from the USB stick under Linux.





Aug 31, 2017 at 04:35 PM
Ai_Print
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


wjmeyer wrote:
Part of my excitement with the new Nikon D850 is the ES-2 adapter and built in Negative Digitizer mode. I have thousands of slides and negatives from the pre-digital era that I've always pondered getting scanned and I really hope the D850 can do an amazing job at converting them because I'd love to scan all the negatives from my own wedding and finally give my wife the album she's always wanted



Once you do that, consider sending the negs off to Blue Moon Camera and Machine for real optical color prints, they are about the only ones who do it anymore.



Aug 31, 2017 at 05:12 PM
aut0maticdan
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


rick2906 wrote:
14 bit Uncompressed raw for the d850 should be around 100 mb but 14 bit Losless compress is the way to go imo.
Do you see a difference between flac and wav, it is the same for losless compress and uncompressed raw


actually, not the best analogy because there are potential differences between a wav and flac that, in theory, could change the experience... bit depth and sample rate. The better analogy would be can you hear the difference between a wav file and the same wav file that has been gzipped and ungzipped.

The bit depth between lossless compressed and lossless are identical and there is no such thing as sample rate (monitor frequency?).

edit: in other news, I'm very excited about the d850. it is basically all that I wanted. I hope that my call to Crutchfield to get on the preorder list had enough of a barrier that I'll be in on the first batch. It is the first time I've ever preordered a camera.



Aug 31, 2017 at 06:56 PM
wjmeyer
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Nikon lists the different crop modes and file sizes as follows:
1.2x - 31.5MP
DX (1.5x) - 19.4MP
5:4 - 37.8MP
1:1 - 30.2MP

In the live panel discussions they mentioned that the viewfinder actually blocks out the rest of the FF image to show only the crop area, this was mentioned specifically for the 5:4 and the 1:1 square mode, but I wonder if it does it for 1.2x and 1.5x as well.

In DX mode at 19.4MP that is about 1MP less than my D500, I wonder how the DX images from the D850 will compare to my D500. Oh, and they say the buffer when shooting RAW DX mode increases from 51 frames (in FF mode) to 200 frames just like the D500!

Edited on Aug 31, 2017 at 08:05 PM · View previous versions



Aug 31, 2017 at 07:41 PM
CanadaMark
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


wjmeyer wrote:
Nikon lists the different crop modes and file sizes as follows:
1.2x - 31.5MP
DX (1.5x) - 19.4MP
5:4 - 37.8MP
1:1 - 30.2MP

In the live panel discussions they mentioned that the viewfinder actually blocks out the rest of the FF image to show only the crop area, this was mentioned specifically for the 5:4 and the 1:1 square mode, but I wonder if it does it for 1.2x and 1.5x as well.

In DX mode at 19.4MP that is about 1MP less than my D500, I wonder how the DX images from the D850 will compare to my D500.


Even the D700 could mask the viewfinder like that, but you had to turn off AF point illumination. Not sure if the D850 has improved on this or not.

Personally I prefer the box to the mask (which you get if you leave AF point illumination on), in case I need to anticipate movement - certainly this is subjective.

The D850 sensor is not an exact scale of the D500 sensor. The Nikon DX crop factor is actually 1.53x, which would put it it closer to 49MP in FF terms. The D850 has larger pixels than the D500 as well. They do share some manufacturing similarities and technologies though, like dual gain and copper wire. I would expect the D850 IQ in DX to be slightly better than the D500 all things considered, but I'm sure they will be very similar.



Aug 31, 2017 at 07:56 PM
wjmeyer
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


CanadaMark wrote:
Even the D700 could mask the viewfinder like that, but you had to turn off AF point illumination. Not sure if the D850 has improved on this or not.

Personally I prefer the box to the mask (which you get if you leave AF point illumination on), in case I need to anticipate movement - certainly this is subjective.

The D850 sensor is not an exact scale of the D500 sensor. The Nikon DX crop factor is actually 1.53x, which would put it it closer to 49MP in FF terms. The D850 has larger pixels than the D500 as well. They do
...Show more

If I recall from the live panel they did mentioned that even when masked the AF points still worked, but I am not certain as they may have been referring to something else.

That was my hope, the images would be very similar with a slight edge to the 850. Ever since I sold my D700's and D3s I have "missed" FF but I never thought of the D800/810 as an ample replacement for the D700 whereas the D850 is not only a replacement but a giant step forward in just about every way. This may be the camera that gets me back into FF for good.



Aug 31, 2017 at 08:49 PM
kaplah
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


CanadaMark wrote:
[...]
Personally I prefer the box to the mask (which you get if you leave AF point illumination on), in case I need to anticipate movement - certainly this is subjective.
[...]


The 850 mask is transparent - it's like having an ND filter around the edges. So one can still see things happening.



Aug 31, 2017 at 09:20 PM
charles.K
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


This is an excellent more long term review

https://www.richardpeters.co.uk/nikon-d850-review-the-best-wildlife-photography-camera-ever-made/

No translation issue here



Sep 01, 2017 at 12:58 AM
mysh
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p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


charles.K wrote:
This is an excellent more long term review

https://www.richardpeters.co.uk/nikon-d850-review-the-best-wildlife-photography-camera-ever-made/

No translation issue here


This is the most impressive comparison of ISO I have seen so far. I am amazed how clean the 25600 owl shot is and the crop.



Sep 01, 2017 at 07:14 AM
mysh
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p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · Nikon D850 officially announced!


Now I just hope ISO 64 is the same as the D810. Everything about the 850 I am excited about but I am worried about this one factor. If it is atleast equal at 64 I will be thrilled.


Sep 01, 2017 at 07:50 AM
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