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First Sony Impression
  
 
mttran
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · First Sony Impression


johnvanr wrote:
I was talking about the 1DX II and 5D IV, not the 7D II. I don't consider that a new camera anymore.


better but not as good as sony sensor in wider DR shadow lifting, banding still there on latest canon sensor: http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5625/29875765026_0c38d15908_o.jpg


Edited on Aug 24, 2017 at 03:37 PM · View previous versions



Aug 24, 2017 at 03:24 PM
johnvanr
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · First Sony Impression


mttran wrote:
better but not as good as sony sensor in wider DR shadow lifting, banding still there on latest canon sensor: http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8267/29574594383_f4eee32c6e_o.jpg


Sure, but at some point lifting shadows becomes a fix for bad exposure. That's a whole other topic, though.



Aug 24, 2017 at 03:37 PM
brian_f2.8
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · First Sony Impression


Which means the experience.


Aug 24, 2017 at 03:43 PM
mttran
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · First Sony Impression


I found sony shadow is much cleaner than canon regardless lifting or not, so does their IQ.


Aug 24, 2017 at 03:43 PM
chez
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · First Sony Impression


johnvanr wrote:
Sure, but at some point lifting shadows becomes a fix for bad exposure. That's a whole other topic, though.


That is just so wrong.



Aug 24, 2017 at 03:56 PM
mttran
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · First Sony Impression


chez wrote:
That is just so wrong.


Exactly, folks have been nut with canon strategy for years. Glad I am out of it.



Aug 24, 2017 at 04:34 PM
justruss
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · First Sony Impression


I don't know-- I'd take an A7rII over an M10 any day of the week... even if both were the same $2,700 price. Leica (like Fuji) may have a "look." But in terms of straight image quality (not to mention other features)... it's no comparison to me. There was a time, back in the film days, when Leica M was-- again, totally a matter of opinion here-- a serious, robust, hardy tool. Today I absolutely see Leica M as an expensive, cultural object used primarily for the fun of shooting. The A7rII @ $2,700 is an incredible buy imo, and the Leica is not a comparable camera (it has its own purpose for being), notably at $6,900!

The A9 is a different beast than either and isn't comparable. It's a professional sports/wildlife/perhaps wedding camera first and foremost. And it is priced like one!

I like aperture rings for functional reasons. I don't give a hoot about how my cameras look. I care about how they perform.

Shooting experience is 100% subjective. I prefer my A7rII by an order of magnitude over any other camera I've shot professionally in the last decade, and that includes cameras from every single series/line that Canon produces, some fuji, some medium format (film and digital), and view cameras. It felt alien at first, but after 6 months or so it surpassed everything that came before it.. for me.

There are many, many ways to skin a cat. I like skinning it with my A7rII now, and it's paid for itself over and over and over again. A few jobs ago, one of the rare times I wasn't assigned to photograph a story but I took some shots with my Batis 18mm and A7rII for documentation/record-keeping purposes... my photo editors chose my haphazard shots over those produced by someone else with a medium format back and meticulous lighting/composing.

On the other hand, I have a photo essay coming out in a few months in a major glossy mag from a 1-year investigative story I did on rhino poaching on 3 continents. I don't know what the final layout is going to be (~10 page)... but good chance it has photos in it from my past 5D2 and Fuji X-E1, and my current A7rII. Go figure!



Aug 25, 2017 at 10:21 AM
brian_f2.8
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · First Sony Impression


Well I sold my Fuji gear as I needed the money to put towards work gear. I use Nikon for sports. When im ready to buy an every day camera, I'm going to look more into the Sony gear as a I really want full frame. May end up with another Leica.


Sep 09, 2017 at 10:52 PM
brian_f2.8
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · First Sony Impression


Well here is an update. This past weekend I shot the Presidents Cup. Sony Pro services was there lending out gear to anyone who wanted to try it out. I figured why not give it a try. I took out an A9, 70-200 f2.8, 500mm f4 and a 12-24 f2.8. Im going to say that I was very impressed, it did much better than I thought. The AF is insane, its basically filming something and then pulling a frame with real photo resolution. I did use the 20fps but its honestly way too much and fills up memory cards way too quick. Shooting .jpg, the files were 350 dpi.

Overall very good system but I still feel there is room to grow. I will say that the equipment is very very expensive. I dont see a reason for someone to switch systems, YET. The EVF is nice and much smoother than Fuji. However with any EVF, you can't see a thing wearing sunglasses. The 500mm f4 is nice, but for 13k plus the adapter, I dont see anyone switching. Not to mention there is a 6-8 week build time since they are hand built. Also Sony is re-designing this lens to use without the adapter, this will give you the 20 fps, instead of just 10.

The A9 is 4k as opposed to Nikon's D5 at 6500$. What I really liked about the mirrorless system is that you can put an AF point just about anywhere on the sensor. This is really nice for changing your composition. FX DSLR's only allow you to use the center area.

The menu system is very overwhelming, but I guess anything is when its new.

The A9 had a grip, it felt very very good in hand. My fat thumbs, kept hitting the record button as opposed to the AF on button. Since I enabled the silent shutter, maybe Ill only use the shutter button.

You need the latest n greatest SD cards, which I do not have but Sony lent me one.

Surprised that they dont offer the option to use the XQD card.




Oct 02, 2017 at 11:46 PM
sungphoto
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · First Sony Impression


Simply put - because they can. We could speculate that it's in order to recoup manufacturing costs, marketing budget (which I'm sure is pretty massive), etc but it's all guesswork unless anyone here is a sony digital imaging exec

It is unfortunate that Sony doesn't have a lenses comparable to the Canon 85 f1.8, 50 f1.8 STM, 35 f2, 24-70 f4 L IS in terms of price and quality. All exceptionally sharp, very fast focusing, and quite inexpensive lenses. Sony's attempts with a "standard" like the FE 50 f1.8 have been quite disappointing in my experience (I used mine for perhaps 30 mins before chucking it back in the box to return). The fact that the FE 85 f1.8 is considered a "budget" option at about $600 is unfortunate..



Oct 03, 2017 at 06:42 PM
 

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sungphoto
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · First Sony Impression


johnvanr wrote:
Sure, but at some point lifting shadows becomes a fix for bad exposure. That's a whole other topic, though.


Agreed, or just bench testing for the sake of bench testing. I don't see the point underexposing an image by 4+ stops and pushing it in post with 100+ shadow and +4 exposure. If you are under or overexposing by that much enough to need to push them in post that much, then it's an operator issue, not a camera issue.



Oct 03, 2017 at 06:49 PM
chez
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · First Sony Impression


sungphoto wrote:
Agreed, or just bench testing for the sake of bench testing. I don't see the point underexposing an image by 4+ stops and pushing it in post with 100+ shadow and +4 exposure. If you are under or overexposing by that much enough to need to push them in post that much, then it's an operator issue, not a camera issue.


But errors happen.. isnít it nice if your camera doesnít lay an egg in these instances and gives you some leeway when you screw up ...after all we all screw up now and again.



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:02 PM
Mystik
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · First Sony Impression


sungphoto wrote:
Agreed, or just bench testing for the sake of bench testing. I don't see the point underexposing an image by 4+ stops and pushing it in post with 100+ shadow and +4 exposure. If you are under or overexposing by that much enough to need to push them in post that much, then it's an operator issue, not a camera issue.


Ever shoot a backlit scene?

The key to doing so without blowing out the brighter parts of the scene is to expose for the highlights, and push the exposure in post to pull detail out of the shadows. It isn't an operator error, its an intentional technique to preserve as much tonal detail as possible in post.

On a lesser sensor, you simply accept that you're going to blow out the highlights....but this isn't the case on sensors with greater dynamic range.




Oct 03, 2017 at 07:09 PM
mogul
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · First Sony Impression


brian_f2.8 wrote:
Well here is an update. This past weekend I shot the Presidents Cup. Sony Pro services was there lending out gear to anyone who wanted to try it out. I figured why not give it a try. I took out an A9, 70-200 f2.8, 500mm f4 and a 12-24 f2.8. Im going to say that I was very impressed, it did much better than I thought. The AF is insane, its basically filming something and then pulling a frame with real photo resolution. I did use the 20fps but its honestly way too much and fills up memory cards way
...Show more
Interesting comment about the 500....it will have to be a whole new lens, they can't even use the same glass and motors. The E mount is focus by wire while the A mount is mechanical.



Oct 03, 2017 at 07:13 PM
sungphoto
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · First Sony Impression


Mystik wrote:
Ever shoot a backlit scene?

The key to doing so without blowing out the brighter parts of the scene is to expose for the highlights, and push the exposure in post to pull detail out of the shadows. It isn't an operator error, its an intentional technique to preserve as much tonal detail as possible in post.

On a lesser sensor, you simply accept that you're going to blow out the highlights....but this isn't the case on sensors with greater dynamic range.



That's nonsense. There's more than one way to shoot, light, and post process a backlit photo, and there's very little about even an aged sensor in a 7d mk2 for example that would yield a totally acceptable image versus an A7rii with proper technique.

That's fine if underexposing a subject by 2 or more stops is acceptable to you, but people have been taking amazing backlit photos with properly exposed highlights long before the A7rii came out..



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:05 PM
chez
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · First Sony Impression


sungphoto wrote:
That's nonsense. There's more than one way to shoot, light, and post process a backlit photo, and there's very little about even an aged sensor in a 7d mk2 for example that would yield a totally acceptable image versus an A7rii with proper technique.

That's fine if underexposing a subject by 2 or more stops is acceptable to you, but people have been taking amazing backlit photos with properly exposed highlights long before the A7rii came out..


Letís hear your techniques. I know you can use fill flash, but letís just say you cannot in this scenario. How would you expose a backlit image so not to blow out the highlights yet still have a normal looking foreground. Letís say your sensor cannot handle the dynamic range of the scene.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:50 PM
Mystik
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · First Sony Impression


sungphoto wrote:
That's nonsense. There's more than one way to shoot, light, and post process a backlit photo, and there's very little about even an aged sensor in a 7d mk2 for example that would yield a totally acceptable image versus an A7rii with proper technique.

That's fine if underexposing a subject by 2 or more stops is acceptable to you, but people have been taking amazing backlit photos with properly exposed highlights long before the A7rii came out..


Yes but because those cameras sensors have lesser dynamic range, they cannot lift enough detail out of the shadows....so exposing for the highlights meant underexposing important aspects of the scene or introducing a lot of noise. Of course if you expose for the shadows, you blow out the highlights.

Of course there are other methods of getting more tonal detail out of a highly contrasty scene...bracket, artificial lighting, etc. But there are limitations to those methods that we're all aware of and having a higher dynamic range sensor means you don't always need to bracket or lug lighting equipment around. Gear isn't everything of course, but having things like more dynamic range on tap does give you more creative flexibility, and yes it changes your technique because you want to shoot in such a way that leverages the capabilities of the camera.

Underexposing by 2+ stops isn't 'improper'...its pretty normal way of shooting Sony cameras. Hell the a9 has a new metering mode that will meter for the highlights.....which basically means you're expected to be doing some aggressive shadow pulling in post.


Edited on Oct 03, 2017 at 11:34 PM · View previous versions



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:19 PM
sungphoto
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · First Sony Impression


chez wrote:
Letís hear your techniques. I know you can use fill flash, but letís just say you cannot in this scenario. How would you expose a backlit image so not to blow out the highlights yet still have a normal looking foreground. Letís say your sensor cannot handle the dynamic range of the scene.


An assistant holding a $20 reflector panel. Where's my prize



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:26 PM
Mystik
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · First Sony Impression


sungphoto wrote:
An assistant holding a $20 reflector panel. Where's my prize


Awesome. Tell us about your giant landscape sized reflector




Oct 03, 2017 at 11:34 PM
LBJ2
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · First Sony Impression


brian_f2.8 wrote:
Well here is an update. This past weekend I shot the Presidents Cup. Sony Pro services was there lending out gear to anyone who wanted to try it out. I figured why not give it a try. I took out an A9, 70-200 f2.8, 500mm f4 and a 12-24 f2.8. Im going to say that I was very impressed, it did much better than I thought. The AF is insane, its basically filming something and then pulling a frame with real photo resolution. I did use the 20fps but its honestly way too much and fills up memory cards way
...Show more

Hello Brian: You wrote "...Sony is re-designing this lens [500/4]to use without the adapter, this will give you the 20 fps, instead of just 10." Just curious, where did you hear this interesting info?



Oct 03, 2017 at 11:35 PM
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