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Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming
  
 
Desmolicious
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Beating Nikon and Canon to the punch...

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Frns.online%2Fit-and-media%2FV-Rossii-vozobnovyat-proizvodstvo-fotoapparatov-Zenit---2017-08-18%2F&edit-text=



Aug 22, 2017 at 05:54 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Possible - but I would keep my expectations on the lower side at this point. Making a FF mirrorless camera from scratch is not as easy as it might sound. It would be nice to see a competitive and much more affordable FF mirrorless model versus Sony and Leica offerings.

If this rumor really proves to be right in 2018, it might not be the "ideal" FF mirrorless camera but hey - it might be a start. Who thought that the Chinese (7Artisans) were suddenly able to make a 50/1.0 M-mount lens which is not as perfectly built as the competitive Noctilux lens, but it is sold for approx. 1/30th of the Leica price and is still decent.

A bit off-topic, but I am still scratching my head that none of the two big photo companies have issued a FF mirrorless camera yet, neither did Fuji. Fuji even stated that they will abandon the FF mirrorless route - a decision which really surprised me because they theoretically had the best setup and experience to compete with Sony in this market. Canon, okay, here I had low expectations anyway since they have gotten very slow with out-of-the-box developments. And Nikon likely was or still is bound to a contract with Sony to receive Sony sensors but not to compete in the FF mirrorless market (I am speculating here). The niche is still open for #2 in the FF mirrorless market (discounting Leica for a moment here) - a market position which is still good to have to make profits. Other, smaller manufacturers might have realized this.




Aug 22, 2017 at 06:18 PM
George Orwell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


retrofocus wrote:
Possible - but I would keep my expectations on the lower side at this point. Making a FF mirrorless camera from scratch is not as easy as it might sound. It would be nice to see a competitive and much more affordable FF mirrorless model versus Sony and Leica offerings.

If this rumor really proves to be right in 2018, it might not be the "ideal" FF mirrorless camera but hey - it might be a start. Who thought that the Chinese (7Artisans) were suddenly able to make a 50/1.0 M-mount lens which is not as perfectly built as the
...Show more

A Sony A7 is very affordable so I dont see why you need anything cheaper.

Fujifilm makes almost no money from selling cameras so for them to not invest in FF is easy to understand. They operate their camera business just to keep their name in the public eye. Their profits, if they have any, are a rounding error to their balance sheet. Fuji still makes the vast majority if their imaging profits from film processing and instax film.




Aug 22, 2017 at 10:54 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


retrofocus wrote:
Possible - but I would keep my expectations on the lower side at this point. Making a FF mirrorless camera from scratch is not as easy as it might sound. It would be nice to see a competitive and much more affordable FF mirrorless model versus Sony and Leica offerings.

If this rumor really proves to be right in 2018, it might not be the "ideal" FF mirrorless camera but hey - it might be a start. Who thought that the Chinese (7Artisans) were suddenly able to make a 50/1.0 M-mount lens which is not as perfectly built as the
...Show more

Apparently Zenit is partnering with an 'experienced' manufacturer who will produce at least some of the camera.

Re: Canikon slow to FF mirrorless. Sure, they've got DSLR systems that work as well or better for the time being. At least with Canon's current generation of DSLRs, they're all pretty much mirrorless cameras in DSLR housings already anyway. Go to live view and you've got excellent DPAF. The lack of EVF and the shot to shot blackout are the only aspects that need to be addressed.

As for Fuji, it makes sense what they're doing. Sony wants FF and to compete head to head with Canikon. Let them. Fuji addresses a more affordable price point with similar performance and leapfrogged FF with their mini-MF system.



Aug 23, 2017 at 01:34 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


George Orwell wrote:
A Sony A7 is very affordable so I dont see why you need anything cheaper.

Fujifilm makes almost no money from selling cameras so for them to not invest in FF is easy to understand. They operate their camera business just to keep their name in the public eye. Their profits, if they have any, are a rounding error to their balance sheet. Fuji still makes the vast majority if their imaging profits from film processing and instax film.



The latest series of Sony A7 is cheap? Seriously? Please.....

Regarding Fuji, the information is different, too: http://www.photoscala.de/2017/08/15/fujifilm-bleibt-in-der-erfolgsspur/


Edited on Aug 23, 2017 at 11:42 AM · View previous versions



Aug 23, 2017 at 11:22 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


rscheffler wrote:
Apparently Zenit is partnering with an 'experienced' manufacturer who will produce at least some of the camera.

Re: Canikon slow to FF mirrorless. Sure, they've got DSLR systems that work as well or better for the time being. At least with Canon's current generation of DSLRs, they're all pretty much mirrorless cameras in DSLR housings already anyway. Go to live view and you've got excellent DPAF. The lack of EVF and the shot to shot blackout are the only aspects that need to be addressed.

As for Fuji, it makes sense what they're doing. Sony wants FF and to compete head to
...Show more

Well, if it would be such an easy thing for Canon to get mirrorless started, why do they face such a hard time with even their current APS-C based mirrorless cameras - some of them turned into big market flops because for the same price point better competitive cameras were long out in the market. I am afraid it won't get much better with any kind of FF mirrorless development they might do - at least not in the next future.

Not sure about the Fuji mini-MF system either - how many are really going to buy into this? I can't imagine that this market is bigger compared to FF mirrorless.



Aug 23, 2017 at 11:26 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


George Orwell wrote:
A Sony A7 is very affordable so I dont see why you need anything cheaper.


retrofocus wrote:
The latest series of Sony A7 is cheap? Seriously? Please.....


the a7 is super cheap, who needs the latest thing? if you want all the newest gadgets and most megapixels the cameras going to be expensive no matter who makes it. if you just a want a cheap FF mirrorless, the a7 will do (unrelated, i shot the a9 and liked the image quality of the a7 better at low iso).

i would like a smaller form factor FF mirrorless with better ergonomics though...




Aug 23, 2017 at 05:55 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


The sensor reflections with the original A7 killed it for me.

I'm actively using a Zenit 12SD film camera, and the way they could not get the very very simple electronics in that to work properly (two leds for the light meter) really gives me the warm fuzzies for a digital camera from them...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it's going to be a first gen Sony A7 dressed up like a battle tank to make it look like a Zenit.



Aug 23, 2017 at 06:12 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Desmolicious wrote:
The sensor reflections with the original A7 killed it for me.


+1. Yes, A7 and A7R can be obtained now for good deals as used cameras. I personally would never go with the A7 due to the starburst reflection issue. A7R is good (and I am still using it myself!) if you can cope with the loud shutter and some vibration issues in specific situations. For some 3rd party MF lenses used with adapter for E-mount, the A7R might still be the best deal.



Aug 23, 2017 at 06:25 PM
ZhanMing12
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Call me cynical, but I'd bet that it's a skinned A7II in Sony-blad fashion.

I would guess skinned Leica M, but that throws the "affordable" part out of the window...



Aug 23, 2017 at 06:36 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



retrofocus
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


ZhanMing12 wrote:
Call me cynical, but I'd bet that it's a skinned A7II in Sony-blad fashion.

I would guess skinned Leica M, but that throws the "affordable" part out of the window...


Pure speculation, but I would expect to see the Zenit with a Leica M series form factor made of painted metal (maybe sort of M3 retro look), a mediocre-good/decent FF sensor and image processor, very limited electronic features compared to Sony, M-mount. Price could be around $1K. Then I might consider!



Aug 23, 2017 at 06:49 PM
George Orwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


retrofocus wrote:
The latest series of Sony A7 is cheap? Seriously? Please.....

Regarding Fuji, the information is different, too: http://www.photoscala.de/2017/08/15/fujifilm-bleibt-in-der-erfolgsspur/


B & H has the Sony A7 with a lens for $1098. That's much less than a Fuji XT-2 without a lens and it's a far better camera.

If you cant afford $1098 then whining about cameras is about all you can do I suppose.




Aug 23, 2017 at 09:49 PM
George Orwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


sebboh wrote:
the a7 is super cheap, who needs the latest thing? if you want all the newest gadgets and most megapixels the cameras going to be expensive no matter who makes it. if you just a want a cheap FF mirrorless, the a7 will do (unrelated, i shot the a9 and liked the image quality of the a7 better at low iso).

i would like a smaller form factor FF mirrorless with better ergonomics though...



Well said. These boards are full of people who want all the latest specs but dont want to pay for it. No wonder the camera industry is dying.




Aug 23, 2017 at 09:50 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


George Orwell wrote:
B & H has the Sony A7 with a lens for $1098. That's much less than a Fuji XT-2 without a lens and it's a far better camera.

If you cant afford $1098 then whining about cameras is about all you can do I suppose.



I understood your first comment that you related to the A7 series pointing towards the latest generation. Sound like you referred just to the A7 itself - the earliest entry-level A7 FF mirrorless camera. In my earlier comment I already stated that the A7 itself can be obtained as USED model for good deals - but current A7 models are way over the edge regarding pricing that a third party manufacturer potentially sees an opportunity there.



Aug 23, 2017 at 10:08 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


retrofocus wrote:
+1. Yes, A7 and A7R can be obtained now for good deals as used cameras. I personally would never go with the A7 due to the starburst reflection issue. A7R is good (and I am still using it myself!) if you can cope with the loud shutter and some vibration issues in specific situations. For some 3rd party MF lenses used with adapter for E-mount, the A7R might still be the best deal.


i've been using the a7 as my main camera for a few years now and i can't say that the sensor reflection issue has ruined any pictures that would have been keepers without it (but then i've never much cared for sun stars). the loud slow shutter of the a7r annoyed me much more.



Aug 23, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


The original A series (A7, A7R, A7S) just feel so crappy in the hands. The size is nice but ergonomics is terrible. Image quality is still very nice though and they are indeed a bargain if you are on a budget....


Aug 25, 2017 at 04:16 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Gary Clennan wrote:
The original A series (A7, A7R, A7S) just feel so crappy in the hands. The size is nice but ergonomics is terrible. Image quality is still very nice though and they are indeed a bargain if you are on a budget....


after 3 years one of the dials broke on me too! luckily i only use one dial, so i just switched which one i use.



Aug 25, 2017 at 04:23 AM
Snopchenko
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


So, about the Zenit thingy...
I think it's going to be in E mount - the company had shown some new E mount lenses last year (or in early 2017, can't remember now) so this should be an indication. I don't have high hopes (patriotism aside), nor really any practical interest, but it'd be nice to see how it pans out - especially in the light of the country regaining some of the industries that were killed off 25 years ago (it's a pity that those who were calling the shots back then are mostly dead so there's no way to try and prosecute them, but I digress). I hope they can pull off the electronic part - instead of jumping on the absurd pseudo-retro stone age bandwagon. Heck, maybe they can buy the camera tech from Samsung who has no use for it now after exiting the camera market.



Aug 25, 2017 at 07:43 AM
WhyFi
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


rscheffler wrote:
Re: Canikon slow to FF mirrorless. Sure, they've got DSLR systems that work as well or better for the time being. At least with Canon's current generation of DSLRs, they're all pretty much mirrorless cameras in DSLR housings already anyway. Go to live view and you've got excellent DPAF. The lack of EVF and the shot to shot blackout are the only aspects that need to be addressed.


I would expect that, for many Alt regulars, the mirror/register/lens compatibility issue makes them a non-starter.




Aug 25, 2017 at 12:17 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Zenit is back! FF digital mirrorless coming


Gary Clennan wrote:
The original A series (A7, A7R, A7S) just feel so crappy in the hands. The size is nice but ergonomics is terrible. Image quality is still very nice though and they are indeed a bargain if you are on a budget....


Okay, this is very subjective, but I feel the A7R better in ergonomics compared to its successor. I find the A7R II too bulky with its shutter release button much too far out on the top of the enlarged grip. Much easier to reach everything with a few finders on a single hand with the first gen of cameras. When mounting adapters, the bigger grip also makes it harder to release the adapter. The A7R II has benefits in its technology compared to the A7R, but I find ergonomics is not one of them.



Aug 25, 2017 at 03:28 PM







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