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Archive 2017 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.

  
 
bs kite
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Won't these two files be identical ?

If you say they will not be identical ....... then please state your reasons why.

Robert










Edited on Aug 22, 2017 at 11:20 AM · View previous versions



Aug 22, 2017 at 06:32 AM
pburke
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


The only real difference in selecting the DX crop will be that the camera is faster in DX. I shoot the D810 in 1.2 crop just to get that extra FPS when using long lenses. On the other hand, I find 1.5x crop is too much on the D810 (16mpx?), plus I don't like to work with that crop in the viewfinder. I much prefer just shooting the D500 when I need the reach, since with that body you get what you see.




Aug 22, 2017 at 06:53 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


^ +1 My M.O., exactly!


Aug 22, 2017 at 07:14 AM
Stoffer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


bs kite wrote:
Won't these two files be identical ?

If you say they will not be identical ....... then please state your reasons why.

Robert



Even if we think we know the resolution of the D850, we don't know anything about the image quality of sensor beyond that, so I'm afraid it is a bit prematurely to speculate on that.



Aug 22, 2017 at 07:35 AM
bs kite
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Stoffer wrote:
Even if we think we know the resolution of the D850, we don't know anything about the image quality of sensor beyond that, so I'm afraid it is a bit prematurely to speculate on that.


Premature ?

In the OP scenario, the cropped file comes from the same sensor as the 46 mpx file.

No, my question is not premature. So could we please stay focused on the question?

Thank you for the interesting feedback so far ..... and hoping for more.



Aug 22, 2017 at 08:06 AM
Stoffer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


bs kite wrote:
Premature ?

In the OP scenario, the cropped file comes from the same sensor as the 46 mpx file.

No, my question is not premature. So could we please stay focused on the question?

Thank you for the interesting feedback so far ..... and hoping for more.


Aaah, sorry... I read too fast and was thinking you were comparing D500 and D850 in DX crop. Sorry!



Aug 22, 2017 at 08:21 AM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Hard to say if it will be identical or not. We know that the ISO range is different, so the sensor may be tweaked for better low ISO performance (and I would expect a cropped shot at ISO 64 to beat a D500 shot at ISO 100 regardless). But with a lower high ISO cap it's possible that the D850 will start to fall apart faster and the D500 might have a slight edge.

Also, larger sensors tend to generate more heat and other random interference, so that may slightly reduce performance on a per-pixel level. We can see this when comparing the 5DSR vs the 7DII - despite having the same pixel pitch, the 7DII has a slight edge over cropped 5DSR images.

Then again, Nikon will have had some time to improve their tech, so maybe they can equal the D500 with cropped D850 files. I wouldn't expect it at all ISOs though, I think the D500 will probably still win at ISO 12800 and up, maybe even sooner.

But regardless, I doubt the difference will really be noticeable at any ISO.



Aug 22, 2017 at 08:53 AM
bs kite
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Stoffer wrote:
Aaah, sorry... I read too fast and was thinking you were comparing D500 and D850 in DX crop. Sorry!


Thank you for your good attitude.



Aug 22, 2017 at 09:22 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


We don't actually know that the FPS will increase with DX mode, but historically it has. There is zero info on that to date.

Whatever the IQ of the D850, DX crop is exactly the same as taking a FF image and cropping after the fact. It doesn't matter what the IQ is because that will be true regardless. The main advantages of shooting in DX mode however are:

1) Possibly faster FPS (yet to be seen)
2) Easier framing and tracking (you can see the subject before it enters the DX area of the viewfinder)
3) Smaller file size / more room on your memory cards
4) 100% AF coverage as it relates to the image size

Another possibility of that port/switch on the side of the D850's viewfinder could be to mask the viewfinder for crop modes, but it wasn't labeled with anything so it's just as likely to be a port.






Aug 22, 2017 at 09:32 AM
prosumerhacks
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/undrestanding-crop-factor/


Aug 22, 2017 at 10:09 AM
bs kite
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.



The OP asks for input on two different file options from the D850 only.... not from the D500 or any other "crop factor" DSLR

I wonder if rewording the title would help.

Should I reword the title ?

PBurke, Trenchmonkey and CanadaMark responses give a better understanding of question posed in the OP.

It might be interesting to have more responses.

Am I confused about any of this?

I have so little knowledge of this subject that it may be me who is accidentally short-circuiting the theme.

Thank you.








Aug 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Your OP and title are clear and does not need editing in my opinion. There isn't much to it...

The answer is equally as simple, and it doesn't matter what the D850's IQ ends up being. DX mode on any FF sensor is exactly the same in all respects as cropping after the fact. All advantages to shooting in crop mode are not IQ related but rather process related.

On the D810 I use 1.2 crop mode a lot, and if the D850 has an even better implementation of this, that will be fantastic.



Aug 22, 2017 at 11:46 AM
bs kite
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


CanadaMark wrote:
Your OP and title are clear and does not need editing in my opinion. There isn't much to it...

The answer is equally as simple, and it doesn't matter what the D850's IQ ends up being. DX mode on any FF sensor is exactly the same in all respects as cropping after the fact. All advantages to shooting in crop mode are not IQ related but rather process related.

On the D810 I use 1.2 crop mode a lot, and if the D850 has an even better implementation of this, that will be fantastic.


thank you.

also a late NR: https://nikonrumors.com/



Aug 22, 2017 at 11:54 AM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Heh, whoops, looks like I read it wrong. Yeah, as Mark says, cropping in post or cropping in camera will be 100% identical in terms of quality.

But by waiting to crop in post you can crop to a different aspect ratio and get more resolution, so unless in camera crop offers more fps or you need to save file space I'd just shoot full frame.



Aug 22, 2017 at 05:40 PM
Photozack81
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Lauchlan Toal wrote:
Heh, whoops, looks like I read it wrong. Yeah, as Mark says, cropping in post or cropping in camera will be 100% identical in terms of quality.

But by waiting to crop in post you can crop to a different aspect ratio and get more resolution, so unless in camera crop offers more fps or you need to save file space I'd just shoot full frame.




This is correct.

Sometimes running in a crop mode offers a performance benefit. It does not offer any IQ benefits. It actually presents some IQ drawbacks, as you're giving up the full frame advantage.

You should run in FX mode unless you specifically need the speed boost (if it applies)



Aug 22, 2017 at 05:50 PM
bs kite
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Good job! Team work! Thank you.

I am clear on this now. Anyone would be

I do have one sidebar that just popped up:

It is for Lachlan Toal: You just said.....

............"But by waiting to crop in post you can crop to a different aspect ratio and get more resolution."

I do not know what this means. I do understand the aspect ratio part; i.e. crop in any ratio of vertical to horizontal one wants.

But I do not understand the resolution part. How would one get more resolution by choosing their own crop ?

Would you explain? Thank you.

Robert



Aug 22, 2017 at 08:06 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


bs kite wrote:
Good job! Team work! Thank you.

I am clear on this now. Anyone would be

I do have one sidebar that just popped up:

It is for Lachlan Toal: You just said.....

............"But by waiting to crop in post you can crop to a different aspect ratio and get more resolution."

I do not know what this means. I do understand the aspect ratio part; i.e. crop in any ratio of vertical to horizontal one wants.

But I do not understand the resolution part. How would one get more resolution by choosing their own crop ?

Would you explain? Thank
...Show more

That's just like if you decide to crop it at 5568 x 4400 or something instead of 5568 × 3712. Or you could almost get a vertical DX crop from a horizontal FX image, with 3712 x 5504 (which isn't more resolution, but it's cool so I thought I'd mention it).

This might not matter if you know that you'll shoot at a 3x2 aspect ratio, or can crop in from there, but if you're not sure what composition will be best it gives better flexibility. It's also good if you're shooting with crop sensor lenses - the lens will generally cover more than the DX image circle, so you might be able to squeeze out a 30MP image from a DX lens by cropping yourself rather than using the built-in 20MP crop.



Aug 22, 2017 at 10:57 PM
bs kite
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Thanks

Looks there's just the wait now.




Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


Well the card will fill up less quickly with DX mode but unless DX mode allows higher fps no other benefit at all. If shooting speed is the same I prefer cropping in post as I can place subject how I like in the crop frame. DX mode will require more careful positioning o subject to get it where you like, and sometimes you haven't got time to worry about framing, just getting the shot is all that matters. But if you could get an extra 1-2fps there are plenty of situations framing is not important, so speed is more useful. Hopefully we have the cake, knife and spoons as well.


Aug 23, 2017 at 01:08 AM
henry albert
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D850's 20+ mpx DX option vs its 46 mpx file, cropped to DX.


bs kite wrote:
Won't these two files be identical ?

If you say they will not be identical ....... then please state your reasons why.

Robert





Yes, they will be the same.



Aug 23, 2017 at 08:50 AM
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