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Archive 2017 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?

  
 
Johnwocher
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Greetings -
Which is better - Setting a crop setting or engaging the 1.4X on the EF200-400L f/4 on the 5DSR? Or both?
Thank you,
John



Aug 18, 2017 at 02:13 AM
Chimping
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


From my understanding of the crop mode on the camera, you actually give up some DR. I think you'd be better off shooting normally and just engaging the 1.4X on your 200-400, and if you need more reach later then crop in post.

I might be wrong on what you're giving up while shooting in a crop setting, but I thought I read somewhere once that there is a drawback to it.



Aug 18, 2017 at 02:34 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Thanks. I will try to learn more. I know I will lose megapixels.
Most appreciatively,
John



Aug 18, 2017 at 02:36 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Setting crop in camera is no different to getting the shot and cropping it in post processing and I prefer dong it myself because I have much more control over things like framing.
Crop vs teleconverter is an age old discussion and each has its advocates. With the subject relatively large in the frame (I would say approx one third the linear size of the sensor) you have latitude for movement and enough pixels to crop and keep detail. Smaller than that in the frame and I find the number of pixels on the subject becomes important.

As far as I understand it (and I may be wrong), the jpeg output will be cropped but you will still get a full raw image and the crop settings will only be recognised by Canons DPP software (you have a chance to reverse those settings before 'baking them in').



Aug 18, 2017 at 02:41 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Thank you Mikehit -
This is helpful.
John



Aug 18, 2017 at 02:45 AM
johnlg
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


From my (limited) experience doing this with my own - if you shoot raw on the 5DSR then selecting a crop doesn't really do anything - you can still make full use of the full file.

I just shoot full and crop later, I guess it's useful for those shooting JPEG.



Aug 18, 2017 at 03:02 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Thank you johnig,
John



Aug 18, 2017 at 03:09 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


If you have to crop and THEN resize the image back up, an optical extender is almost always superior to a digital upsampling. If you don't have to resize the image up for a large print or whatever, then it could be a wash either way, depending on the light levels. Since the TC adds a stop, you will probably change ISO to be higher to compensate, and end up with a 1 stop noisier image.


Aug 18, 2017 at 05:11 AM
Tapeman
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


If I plan to crop a lot, I use a tripod and full frame. Most often that will be with my 500 and 2X.


Aug 18, 2017 at 11:59 AM
Mike Jacks0n
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


TeamSpeed wrote:
If you have to crop and THEN resize the image back up, an optical extender is almost always superior to a digital upsampling. If you don't have to resize the image up for a large print or whatever, then it could be a wash either way, depending on the light levels. Since the TC adds a stop, you will probably change ISO to be higher to compensate, and end up with a 1 stop noisier image.


I do find when shooting the 5DS, I'll crop before going to the 1.4 TC. I'll use the 1.4 if I think the crop will net less than 15'ish mega pixels.

For the OP, the crop mode is simply an easy way to see what you are going to get. It still shoots a full size image and will allow you to "uncrop" in post IIRC.



Aug 18, 2017 at 03:01 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Good point about the crop in body, you can always take the raw into DPP, for example, and remove the crop that was applied. That is a good compromise in trying to reduce workflow. Get your crop correct as much as possible in camera, and if you make a mistake, or later decide you want a wider view, pull up the raw and remove the crop factor.


Aug 18, 2017 at 03:05 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Johnwocher wrote:
Greetings -
Which is better - Setting a crop setting or engaging the 1.4X on the EF200-400L f/4 on the 5DSR? Or both?
Thank you,
John


1.4x engage is better than cropping. Good glass is better than cropping.

But is an fstop higher.

So I would suggest if you don't have enough light to keep the iso <=iso3200, use cropping. But if you have enough light - use the 1.4x.

Canon would not be able to see 200-400 w 1.4x built in if 1.4x did not have a performance advantage.



Aug 18, 2017 at 05:43 PM
takowasa
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


TeamSpeed wrote:
If you have to crop and THEN resize the image back up, an optical extender is almost always superior to a digital upsampling.


Yep. How much better will depend on a lot of factors, though.

If you don't have to resize the image up for a large print or whatever, then it could be a wash either way, depending on the light levels.

The TC will still be better, regardless of the light.

Since the TC adds a stop, you will probably change ISO to be higher to compensate, and end up with a 1 stop noisier image.

Cropping costs the same stop of light, but you lose the resolution. For example, a photo of a scene at 300mm f/4 1/500 ISO 400 cropped to the same framing as an uncropped photo of the same scene at 420mm f/5.6 1/500 ISO 800 will be made with the same amount of light, and thus the same noise with respect to the light. However, the ISO 800 photo will be slightly *less* noisy than the ISO 400 because higher ISO settings on Canon sensors add in less electronic noise than lower ISO settings. Furthermore, because the photo with the TC will capture more detail, when noise filtering is applied to it to match the detail of the cropped photo, that will only serve to extend the noise advantage of using the TC.

The exception, of course, is if the aberrations in the TC degrade the photo more than the extra pixels help the photo. In this case, the bare lens and cropping will be superior. In addition, the TC made degrade the AF speed/accuracy of the system, and even being a little out of focus will do more harm than the extra pixels will do good.



Aug 18, 2017 at 06:19 PM
evertdoorn
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


I would say shoot the full size raw and use the extender; crop later.

But I don't have either a 5ds or 200-400 . How do you like the quality of the 200-400 with 1.4 extender engaged on the 5Ds?



Aug 19, 2017 at 05:40 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Thanks Everet -
I like the 1.4 extender in good light and stopped down a bit. Image quality is very good. At wide open (f/5.6) in low light, it is less sharp (slightly) but still good quality. The 200-400 is incredibly sharp at f/4 throughout the zoom range.
John



Aug 20, 2017 at 06:43 PM
evertdoorn
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Thanks! I might try to borrow this combination from CPS to try it out; could be a possible replacement for my 100-400 and 300 II w extenders


Aug 21, 2017 at 01:51 AM
fplstudio
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Imho cropping is always better than engaging the TC. As said, if you shoot raw basically it makes no difference if you do in camera, just the cropped viewfinder may be of help for composition and for an idea of the final output


Aug 21, 2017 at 06:14 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


I have a 5DsR, 70-200ii and 100-400ii. If light is low, I always opt for lower ISO and crop. Even one stop from 1600-3200 is so much sharpness / detail lost on this camera. I often shoot ISO400 (800 emergencies) @f/2.8 and crop. This sensor is outrageously good to crop at low ISO. But even ISO200 is better than ISO400 at pixel level.

If ample light (which is rarely the case), glass wins.

Just try it out. You'll see what works best for you.

Kind regards,
Ralph



Aug 21, 2017 at 08:54 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


Canon doesn't have a proper crop mode on their FF bodies. Your best bet would be the 1.4TC, then crop the full frame in PP if you need to go further yet.


Aug 21, 2017 at 11:58 AM
Jeffrey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5DSR Crop Setting To Extend Reach for Wildlife?


I love that phrase 'longer reach' So silly! It's all about the angle of view you need to make the desired image. Cropping is a compositional tool.


Aug 21, 2017 at 12:34 PM





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