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Archive 2017 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???

  
 
jwpstl
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


GabrielPhoto wrote:
I dont see why you need a good tripod at 600mm to be honest. I had one for 2 weeks and at 600mm handheld is very easy as its IBS. The only thing I didnt like is that there is a delay for the stabilization to kick in...I am used to my A7Rii I guess


The stabilization in the RX10 III is excellent. I don't feel the need for a tripod unless I plan to drop down below 1/60th frequently.



Aug 16, 2017 at 02:39 PM
chiron
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


MedicineMan404 wrote:
1. Ken Rockwell says the 24-240 gets 10fps on the a9 I can't find that on the compatibility chart
at Sony. Exaggerating again?
2. I had the 24-240mm. Regret selling it but am in the same decision process of 24-240 vs RX10iv, yep
I'm waiting out the mk IV because I enjoy the RX100V and know when the sensor in the V and the
AF-tracking of the RX100V is ported over to the RX10iii then the greatest bridge camera ever made
will be ours....just hope they leave that wonderful lens alone!
3. Assuming you are shooting on a A7Rii why
...Show more

I'll be interested to see what you find on the weight comparisons. I have an a6500, so I could use that.

The sensor in the RX10 III is upgraded, I believe from the RX10 II. The III, I believe, has the BSI sensor.




Aug 16, 2017 at 02:45 PM
farfisa
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


I've seen some great results here from the RX10 III, but now that the RX100 V has the PDAF the next RX10 will likely get that as well, right?

I had the 24-240 on the original A7 and it was quite a capable lens, though not for pixel peepers.

Was it as good as primes? No, Ken. No, it wasn't.

Edited on Aug 16, 2017 at 03:35 PM · View previous versions



Aug 16, 2017 at 03:29 PM
maestrofilms
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


The RX10 III is brilliant. If I take a trip or go on an outing where I want an all in one solution, that's what I grab without a second thought. The lens is sharp and lovely edge to edge throughout the entire focal range.


Aug 16, 2017 at 03:35 PM
MedicineMan404
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


farfisa wrote:
I've seen some great results here from the RX10 III, but now that the RX100 V has the PDAF the next RX10 will likely get that as well, right?

I had the 24-240 on the original A7 and it was quite a capable lens, though not for pixel peepers.

Was it as good as primes? No, Ken. No, it wasn't.


Farlisa that is what I'm thinking, then the RX10iv will be easily BIF capable, I'm sure it is possible now but when the latest AF module is ported to it then it will be a big improvement.

Both 24-240 and RX100iii offer huge convenience in now having to interchange....seems it would be hard to go wrong with either choice until you need to do some really now light imaging....the 1 inch sensor is fantastic but I doubt many would choose that over FF when the ISO has to be cranked.

Hey, I don't have either one so my 0.02 is not really even worth that!



Aug 16, 2017 at 03:45 PM
jharter
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


GabrielPhoto wrote:
I dont see why you need a good tripod at 600mm to be honest. I had one for 2 weeks and at 600mm handheld is very easy as its IBS. The only thing I didnt like is that there is a delay for the stabilization to kick in...I am used to my A7Rii I guess


I have not used the latest version of the RX10 so I can't comment on its stabilization, although for making larger prints and critical sharpness I would be reluctant to handhold 600 in any case. I am sure it can work well enough, but for my photos I would likely be using a tripod. I should have said: If using a tripod, make sure it is solid. An unstable tripod at 600 might be worse than handholding 600 with stabilization.



Aug 17, 2017 at 08:09 AM
MikeEvangelist
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


chiron wrote:
I have an a6500, so I could use that.


I pondered this combo as well, but putting that lens on the 6500 gives 36-360mm equivalent, which isn't wide enough for me. That's the real beauty of the RX10iii, the incredible zoom range.



Aug 17, 2017 at 08:57 AM
GabrielPhoto
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


jharter wrote:
I have not used the latest version of the RX10 so I can't comment on its stabilization,


I have used it and stabilization works great and very easy to handhold even at lower shutter speeds.





Aug 17, 2017 at 09:20 AM
kimknapp
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Here is an example:
First two are from our RX10m3, taken by wife with Auto Focus. First one is the original image. It was RAW and the only thing I did to it was use LR to output it to a 1.4m max file-size jpeg, resized to 900 pixels on long edge.

The second one is a crop. For this one, I did not resize it, but it is converted by LR to jpeg, 1.4M max size.

Keep in mind that birds with black eyes surrounded with black feathers do need some post processing, no matter what camera you use.

The third and fourth ones, for reference, is from my M43 Oly EM1-2 with 300mm Pro. (Still only 1 1/3", but might be a nice comparison). To get this sharp image, I HAD to manually focus. I do notice that I get better contrast of the beak and eyes, but I suspect this was because I was at a different angle than my wife and the bird was facing better with respect to the sun (I like her angle better :-) ).
Again, cropped and exported at full resolution, but converted by LR to max size 1.4M jpeg

Both images were at 600mm FF equivalent.

The point is, the RX10m3 is a worthy travel camera, IMHO. Also, when wide open, DOF and bokeh are not too bad.

Kim



© Kim Knapp 2017

RX10 iii 600mm (FF Equiv) 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 ISO 100 -0.7EV





© Kim Knapp 2017

Full resolution crop of first image.





© Kim Knapp 2017

EM-1.2 300mm Pro (600mm FF Equiv) 1/1250 sec @ f/6.3 ISO 200 -0.3EV





© Kim Knapp 2017

Full resolution crop of third image.




Aug 17, 2017 at 09:40 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Hi Chiron -- I can't help regarding the small sensor camera, as I have that format covered by cameras of different brand, and almost never use them or take them on trips anymore.

Regarding the 24-240 IQ, I own the 28-70 kit lens, have borrowed the 24-240, own the Zony 24-70, and have borrowed the 24-70GM. Here are my rankings of IQ, from lowest to highest:

28-70 -- Very poor overall, low contrast, veiling flare, poor color and fair overall sharpness. Best at f/8 and beyond, but not worth taking on any important trips and absolutely no professional work.

24-240 -- Terrific focal range, but suffers from the same IQ problems throughout its range, and worse for low contrast at longer lengths. Better overall than the kit lens, and much more versatile, but just makes the cut as an all-in-one travel lens. (Personally, I rather take one prime like the Loxia 35 and leave the 24-240 alone, concentrating on images appropriate to the focal length or shoot 2-3 shot panos.) Not for professional work, but okay as a tourist lens -- way better than nothing!

Zony 24-70/4 -- Used these sell for almost the same price as 24-240, but the IQ is far better. Granted this lens is weak in the sides at all apertures below f/9, but the color and contrast are definitely Zeiss inspired. Center is ourstanding in sharpness, even wide open. Certainly more limited in zoom range than the 24-240, but a different league as far as overall "look". Capable of professional work, with attention to subject position and image borders.

24-70/2.8GM -- A truly outstanding lens at almost all settings. Approximately equivalent to Canon's latest 24-70/2.8L II, but in a slightly smaller package. Certainly expensive, and that's why I don't own either of those lenses -- yet. The Sony is on my list for next major purchase. Certainly a top professional lens.

*****************

Canon 24-105/4L IS -- certainly not up to the Sony GM, and not having the Zony 24-70/4's impressive color and contrast without more PP, I prefer to carry this Canon zoom with Sigma MC-11 for general touristy outings if not taking the Zony. Mine is a newer copy and far better than the 24-240 in all imaging characteristics I am interested in. Useable for many professional assignments from events to cityscapes. I'd rate it as a tie with the Zony 24-70/4 overall. In other words, on a budget, those two zooms would be preferable to the 24-240 for most people's needs.

*******************

My advice is to look for (or post a "Wanted") on the B&S for a good copy of the Zony 24-70 or Canon 24-105L. Used prices should run just under $700 for the 24-70 and as low as $500 for the Canon (a really great deal if you already have the MC-11 adapter!). If you really want the 24-240, and that wouldn't be an awful choice!, again check the B&S and reputable members here for prices down to around that same price range as the Zony -- just under $700. Those would be the order of my three choices for a trip zoom I wouldn't have to worry about, or event-type photography.

Good luck on your choices with FF vs 1".

PS -- I also enjoy KR's reviews as "practical usage" tests and results. I enjoy his wit and snarkiness too! At least he gets out and takes pictures with what he reviews, and pretty darned good graphic/editorial images at that!



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM
Charlie N
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Gunzorro wrote:
Hi Chiron -- I can't help regarding the small sensor camera, as I have that format covered by cameras of different brand, and almost never use them or take them on trips anymore.

Regarding the 24-240 IQ, I own the 28-70 kit lens, have borrowed the 24-240, own the Zony 24-70, and have borrowed the 24-70GM. Here are my rankings of IQ, from lowest to highest:

28-70 -- Very poor overall, low contrast, veiling flare, poor color and fair overall sharpness. Best at f/8 and beyond, but not worth taking on any important trips and absolutely no professional work.

24-240 -- Terrific
...Show more

firstly, the 24-70 and the 28-70 are very close in IQ, and the 24-240 really sits in between them on the wide end.

When it comes to the long end, the 24-240 is clearly sharper than both 24-70 and 28-70.

The 24-105 is a solid lens for sure, but it's not a whole lot stronger than the 24-240 stopped down a tick, and AF cannot match, even if a faster lens. When comparing to the rx10iii which does 600mm, 105 certainly feels short!

generally, the color rendition is best with the 24-70 then 24-105, however with raw files, less of an issue.

when you shoot with the 24-240, you have to make a mental note that the really long end, you should stop down for acceptable sharpness.

Dxo's measurement on the lens pretty much mirrors my experience with it, as I was shooting with the 24-105 for a while as well.







Aug 17, 2017 at 11:54 AM
chiron
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


kimknapp wrote:
Here is an example:
First two are from our RX10m3, taken by wife with Auto Focus. First one is the original image. It was RAW and the only thing I did to it was use LR to output it to a 1.4m max file-size jpeg, resized to 900 pixels on long edge.

The second one is a crop. For this one, I did not resize it, but it is converted by LR to jpeg, 1.4M max size.

Keep in mind that birds with black eyes surrounded with black feathers do need some post processing, no matter what camera you use.

The third and fourth
...Show more

Thank you for such an interesting and useful set of images. I do like the Oly image more. Some of that may be the angle toward the sun, but there does seem to be more detail in the feathers at the top of the head and on the chest. But it is hard to draw firm conclusions from one example.

This does show a good example of what the RX10III can do and what its limitations may be. I would love to see some more images if you would like to share more!

And it is good that you prefer your wife's angle! ;-))



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:05 PM
chiron
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Gunzorro wrote:
Hi Chiron -- I can't help regarding the small sensor camera, as I have that format covered by cameras of different brand, and almost never use them or take them on trips anymore.

Regarding the 24-240 IQ, I own the 28-70 kit lens, have borrowed the 24-240, own the Zony 24-70, and have borrowed the 24-70GM. Here are my rankings of IQ, from lowest to highest:

28-70 -- Very poor overall, low contrast, veiling flare, poor color and fair overall sharpness. Best at f/8 and beyond, but not worth taking on any important trips and absolutely no professional work.

24-240 -- Terrific
...Show more

Terrific analysis, Gunzorro. And i appreciate your grading of the lens options and the buying advice. i wish you had experience of the RX10III or other small sensor. It is interesting to see your experience with the relative trade-offs across optical characteristics with each lens. Thank you for taking the tie to provide the detail. I think it may be useful to many people.



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:08 PM
chiron
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Charlie N wrote:
firstly, the 24-70 and the 28-70 are very close in IQ, and the 24-240 really sits in between them on the wide end.

When it comes to the long end, the 24-240 is clearly sharper than both 24-70 and 28-70.

The 24-105 is a solid lens for sure, but it's not a whole lot stronger than the 24-240 stopped down a tick, and AF cannot match, even if a faster lens. When comparing to the rx10iii which does 600mm, 105 certainly feels short!

generally, the color rendition is best with the 24-70 then 24-105, however with raw files, less of an issue.

when
...Show more

Charlie--

Thank you for all the effort and experienced judgement in your post--it is enormously helpful. It mirrors what the poster over at dpreview said in his comparison of the 24-240 to the 24-70 based on DXO's maps, and it is very useful to hear this is reflected in your own experience with the lenses.

Based ont the input I have gotten here, I should tomorrow evening have used and returnable copies of the DX10III and of the 24-240 in my hands and i will do a little bit of testing. I leave for eclispse land on Sunday morning, so I don't have much time to make a decision for this trip.

Your advice to close down a bit with the 24-240 when long seems like a critical adjustment to make, and is likely to be possible in the way that i envision using this lens: out of doors and not on fast moving objects.

Thank you for your analysis!



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:17 PM
chiron
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Charlie N wrote:
I've tested similar landscape scenes with the 24-240

the 24-70 slightly better IQ at 24mm corners (and it's pretty bad in that regards)
24-240 has good IQ from 28-105 stopped down, maybe even further. At the longer end, you want to stick to F8 or deeper if possible so you dont run into DOF issues. One of my longer shots posted above and even the wave shot below, I do have DOF issues, but since the background are fairly insignificant buildings or nothingness, slight blur is perfectly ok.

EDIT: dont think I did any sharpening to the images below, mostly other adjustments.
...Show more

These are very lovely images, very much in the travel/photojournalistic mode.



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:19 PM
chiron
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


Charlie N wrote:
I've tested similar landscape scenes with the 24-240

the 24-70 slightly better IQ at 24mm corners (and it's pretty bad in that regards)
24-240 has good IQ from 28-105 stopped down, maybe even further. At the longer end, you want to stick to F8 or deeper if possible so you dont run into DOF issues. One of my longer shots posted above and even the wave shot below, I do have DOF issues, but since the background are fairly insignificant buildings or nothingness, slight blur is perfectly ok.

EDIT: dont think I did any sharpening to the images below, mostly other adjustments.
...Show more

These are very lovely images, very much in the travel/photojournalistic mode.



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:19 PM
chiron
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


ebookman wrote:
I have used the 24-240 a lot at the same time my wife used the RX100 with the 1 inch sensor. I don't think there is any comparison when it comes time for post processing RAW images. The larger image wins every time. If on the other hand you are shooting JPEGS I don't think it makes as much difference. The FE 24-240 is better than the critics would have you believe. Take the time to make good development profiles and you will be rewarded.


Thank you for the comparison, right on point.

The question I have is whether there was as much effort expended on post-processing your wife's images with the RX10III as was spent by you on your own images with the 24-240? Would your wife's images have gotten comparably better as your own did with more PP?



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:24 PM
SoundHound
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


I took two APS C cameras and the RX100 MKIII on an European vacation. After the 1st day I left the C sensored cameras locked up in the Hotel for the whole trip. I own a RX10 MKIII and it will will make shots no other camera will.

Hand held at 600mm F4.0 wide open with good DOF. Silent, and small eniugh to shoot in any venue without fuss or muss. Out of doors the extra light really makes the 1" sensor shine. I would suggest adding the RX100 MKIII-MKV to the RX19 MKIII.



Aug 18, 2017 at 03:22 AM
ebookman
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


chiron wrote:
Thank you for the comparison, right on point.

The question I have is whether there was as much effort expended on post-processing your wife's images with the RX10III as was spent by you on your own images with the 24-240? Would your wife's images have gotten comparably better as your own did with more PP?


No amount of PP can make up for the smaller data set on the 1 inch sensor. You will not notice it so much in a 4x6 or 8x10 full frame image or print. You will notice it however in larger prints and large screen projection, or when you alter your composition with cropping or attempt to pull a lot of detail out of shadows or recover data from highlights. You are just working in a narrower range of capabilities on the smaller sensor. My wife, preferring the compact camera, refused to acknowledged the difference until she joined a camera club with monthly competitions. Then she saw the difference at every competition, She couldn't process her images to match her creative goals. There really is no substitute for the raw data. By the way, she now shoots with an A7RII and the 24-240 is her favorite lens.

For me, photography is my creative outlet and interest, more than a simple recording of the events in my life. It is an expensive difference in perspective. I would be very happy with any of the 1 inch sensor products for family documentary. They are great products.



Aug 18, 2017 at 09:09 AM
GabrielPhoto
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 24-240 Lens or Sony DSC-RX10 III? Which one lens travel solution???


I guess the best way I can express my feelings of the 24-240 vs the RX10 III is this...

As a Pixel peeper... I owned the 24-240 briefly and had the RX10 iii for 2 weeks (rental).
Right now, I miss having the RX10 iii for when I want one single yet capable camera. Sure the 1" sensor is no match for my A7Rii but the lens is fantastic. So the only reason I am not getting one yet is because I am waiting to see what IV brings to the table.
As for the 24-240...I have zero plans to buy it again nor miss it one bit.



Aug 18, 2017 at 11:59 AM
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