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D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?
  
 
retrofocus
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


airfrogusmc wrote:
The DR from the new M 10 is amazing.. The files out if camera are the best from a color digital M. I will say this is the finest digital camera (135 format or crop format) that I have ever shot with and I have shot with quite a few. I like it better than both Sony or Fuji. (I actually like my 262 better also but this is a good step up from the 262 & 240) I don't use any automation. 40 years of doing it all manual I can surely make faster and better exposure decisions on
...Show more

I just compared DR of the A7R II, A7R, and M10 using this link:
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Between ISO 100-160 Sony seems a tiny bit better in DR compared to M10, but I am not sure how much of it is practically of use. In the most critical range between ISO 200 and 500 the cameras match the same DR.




Aug 12, 2017 at 09:34 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue - To answer you directly. Eye AF just works in every situation I've put it in so far. And I don't need high MP for wedding work. There are a few REALLY good Sony lenses so that's all I PERSONALLY need for the work I do.
For everything else I could/would use medium format (though now the S system is gone so I need to think on what I'd replace it with if at all) or my M10 which I do like a LOT and have used quite a bit so far this trip.

I won't get too into a M10 vs A9 (Leica vs Sony vs Nikon debate).

What I will say is I'm happy enough with the A9 to not have to go back to DSLR shooting. Primarily my interest is good lenses and fast AF. Because if AF isn't fast, I might as well use my M camera + M lenses as I'm happier using a RF camera for all my needs, and I'm fast at focusing. Secondary for a work system is good colours.. And I say secondary but really it's on par with good AF, but if AF didn't matter I'd use an M because I like the colours and I'm very use to the way the lenses render.

I think the M10 sensor is really good, and I do love the colours. BUT I've also felt this way about the M240 vs all Sony sensors for a long while now, especially in print. I have a feeling this new M10 will produce great prints, although I haven't printed it yet. Though I can say that I'm not unhappy with the A9 so far, though I haven't done any BIG prints.

The reason I bring up Sony sensors is that although Nikon gives them a little tweak, I still see a lot of Sony influence from anything sold by Nikon after the D700. So for me I don't see a big draw to the D850 just like how the 5Ds isn't very interesting for me...

As far as the Nikon lenses go.. They're great, but I feel the Sony lenses (in the focal lengths I use/need) are better. I'd give special consideration to the 85GM and 24-70GM. I just like the rendering from both lenses. BUT the 50ZA FE is amazing and at the right distance to subject the 35ZA FE isn't too bad either. I've shot a ton of video this trip exclusively with the 18 Batis and although it got wonky with a subject at the edge of the frame. The stills and landscape videos I did look great. And I haven't really even gone through them all, but I'm pretty pleased with the 18 Batis for both video and stills... Especially stills.




Aug 13, 2017 at 03:09 PM
LightShow
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Funny how this turned into a Leica M thread...
I highly doubt I'll ever get another dslr, just too much bulk, lack of freedom in adapting lenses is a huge negative point for me.
I'm really interested in what Nikon will do for their next mirrorless experiment, the patent with the adapter that has a built in pellical mirror and AF module points to a short register, which could mean Loxia(very possible) and Batis(less likely) ports to their system.



Aug 14, 2017 at 03:22 AM
zhangyue
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I am lugging my Leica S 35/70/180 and tripod to mountain for 10 miles hike in Sequoia and kings canyon national park. I did the same in Canada rocky. Unless I am doing overnight hike, I don't see this is a problem. Yes, it is heavier, but viewing experience is way better. I miss flip LCD though, especially for tripod work.

I can see many reasons to adapter small lenses on Sony. But once you put Huge SLR lens on it, the advantage disappeared. I did bring A7RII. At high contrast sequoia nation forest, the EVF is totally unpleasant, do any of you guys shooting all WO during travelling under day light? I found most of my shot at least f5.6 for no people and it is almost impossible to miss focusing with SLR body and fast glass for manual focusing. If shoot image with people with WO, I am not a fan of using magnifying. For non moving stuff, at any distance, no time pressure, even shooting fast glass WO, I usually have no problem with that. There is many way you can get in focused image with time.

Sony alpha system meant to be used with native lenses or adapt small lens for landscape or travelling, I think that is reasonable but I failed to see that is the future? Maybe until it offer true analog experience EVF with infinity DR? and at the same time, camera, lenses are smaller cheaper?

Adam, I understand what you say. It make sense at least for your case. Eye AF is great tool for professional at fast pace portrait session but it seems not always working. For example, strong back lit or face turn side, and for the way I use it, (using AF/MF) if it is not work, I have to toggle that to back to AEL to active AF-on, Usually you find that out camera is already on your eyes and ready to shoot. that is a hustle and you will miss the moment.

Nikon actually do have face recognition and using full auto, it can nail focus on EYES as well. It works pretty well with sigma 35mm I have and D810. I can even capture about half of images sharp WO with my son running toward me with pretty short shooting distance, a challenge for any camera system. I can imagine with D5 type AF and 24-70 type of fast AF glass, this will be useful tool for dynamic shooting.

I personally don't use it much as I like fully control on stuff means I want frame and focusing as planed. For A7RII, I always try to use eye AF feature but I find more than half of time, it is not active and I have to revert back to normal focusing. And the AF is noticeable slower than D810, tracking is worse too with 35/55FE. With A7RII, the AF, frame black out and shutter delay is also very noticeable.

As compare to M, it is awesome for street, no better tool for that, (I think flip LCD will helpful for many interest angle street shots as well) but for landscape, it is obviously not as good as any other top offers. NR is PITA for long exposure. and I personally always enjoy SLR shooting experience especially look out with fast glass directly through bright OVF. AS for video, I personally don't use it but I agree why not. There is many way to hide it if you don't want it. It offer value for customers and who know I might want document some short clips someday.

Edited on Aug 15, 2017 at 05:40 PM · View previous versions



Aug 14, 2017 at 06:21 AM
alundeb
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


The specs are great. This is the first CaNikon style DSLR to really combine landscape resolution, wildlife pixel density and wildlife / sports frame rate.

Personally I don't use high frame rate much at all, and if I had Nikon lenses I would be using the D810 already. From there I am not sure if I would upgrade at this step.

The D850 will be a great camera to attract new users to Nikon, and that is a good thing.

As a Canon shooter, I am waiting for the 120 MP FF camera they are developing, and still can do what I want with the 5DSR as my main camera.



Aug 14, 2017 at 07:34 AM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
I am lugging my Leica S 35/70/180 and tripod to mountain for 10 miles hike in sequoial and kings canyon national park. I did the same in Canada rocky. Unless I am doing overnight hike, I don't see this is a problem. Yes, it is heavier, but viewing experience is way better. I miss flip LCD though, especially for tripod work.

I can see many reasons to adapter small lenses on Sony. But once you put Huge SLR lens on it, the advantage disappeared. I did bring A7RII. At high contrast sequoia nation forest, the EVF is totally unpleasant, do
...Show more

The A9 is a far different beast to the A7rII. If you don't need the MPX then I suggest A9 for anything fast. Nothing I've used even comes close.
I'm with you on size, I had no problems with my S-system when I was using it. To me the size is not an issue. Once I commit to taking out a certain tool, I just take it and use it. In fact, I'm quite sad I didn't have it this trip to NZ as there were a few things I would have loved to have the S-system for. BUT I made due with the M10 and am happy with the results.

I would go back to OVF if the S-system was more reliable.



Aug 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM
charles.K
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Arka wrote:
You and I will never agree on the video issue. Suffice to say that any camera without video capability is one I won't buy. I'm not making Game of Thrones, for which a professional tool is required. For me, the proper tool is the one I have available, and my M has captured moments on video that I and my family will treasure forever. They would never have been captured by a separate dedicated video camera because I've never had one and never will. I'm a stills shooter who occasionally shots opportunistic video when the moment demands it. Losing that
...Show more


Yes the M10 is superb but I agree if there is no 4K video minimum with easy readable codecs I am no longer interested. I do surprisingly a lot of short video clips now and having it within the same body is must have feature. In the past video was a add on but it is now an important feature. I must say I like how the video is implemented with the A7rII and A7s.



Aug 14, 2017 at 07:08 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


alundeb wrote:
The specs are great. This is the first CaNikon style DSLR to really combine landscape resolution, wildlife pixel density and wildlife / sports frame rate.

Personally I don't use high frame rate much at all, and if I had Nikon lenses I would be using the D810 already. From there I am not sure if I would upgrade at this step.

The D850 will be a great camera to attract new users to Nikon, and that is a good thing.

As a Canon shooter, I am waiting for the 120 MP FF camera they are developing, and still can do what I want
...Show more

Lens will be detracting starting at f1.2 😂



Aug 14, 2017 at 08:38 PM
philber
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I am impressed with the specification as published. Even though DR and colour depth would be nice to see as well.
Reason being, somewhat perversely, that this is a harbinger of things to come from Sony. Now that they claim to be N2 in the ILC market worldwide, they can't let both Canon and Nikon offer more resolution that they do, especially in the case of Nikon, with a Sony sensor.
This, to me, means that A7III/RIII/SIII, or whatever it is called, will be out shortly. Thank you Nikon!



Aug 14, 2017 at 09:08 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


To me, the d850 is what the A99ii should have been (high res, great IQ, robust AF, ergonomic body, full lens system) but even better cause as Nikon gives this cam full support and IQ will be more polished


Aug 14, 2017 at 10:45 PM
 

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Lee Saxon
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


This thread is so much more levelheaded than the Nikon Forum thread.

This looks like an excellent incremental upgrade. I may well own it.

But the talk about this being a marvel and a revelation and a shock and the key to turning around Nikon's fortunes is just silly.

40-50mp, a couple fps faster, hi-dpi LCD which is now articulated, D5 autofocus, that's exactly what I expected for the next incremental upgrade. The larger OVF is a nice surprise, as are the extra 2 fps with the battery grip, but c'mon.



Aug 15, 2017 at 12:52 AM
JLRII
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Sounds like the FF camera I wish Canon would make. Or wished, I'm in the middle of transitioning from Canon EF to Fuji medium format. But this combination of resolution, frame rate/AF capability, what I'm assuming will be stellar low ISO dynamic range and very decent high ISO IQ, large OVF and articulating touchscreen, on paper it all sounds fairly compelling. I do wonder how fast/accurate the live-view AF will be on this new sensor, not sure that I've read anything about the presence or absence of on-sensor phase-detect AF points. If I had picked Nikon years ago, I'm sure I'd be fairly excited for this camera.


Aug 15, 2017 at 01:26 AM
davewolfs
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I sometimes wonder how Nikon continues to remain in business. For a 100 year anniversary you would think they would finally show the world their mirrorless option.


Aug 15, 2017 at 01:44 AM
Arka
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
How you like your A9 compare to D810? I will have to try it myself before even think about it.

A7RII doesn't meet my expectation on many ways. And my Sony lens perchase experience is very painful. I have to return/exchange a few lenses and finally changed lens from planned 70-200 to 70-300 to get a decent copy.



I don't have a long-term perspective yet. I just sold my M and all of its accoutrements to B&H for what I thought was a fair price given the $500 trade up rebate on the A9... probably about as well as I could have done in private sale, but without the uncertainty or hassle. A9 will be here in a few days along with the TechArt Pro M-mount AF adapter. I will probably also pick up the Sony 85mm f/1.8, as it performs as well or better than the Zeiss Batis and is far smaller.

I've rented the camera and found it to be absolutely stunning. The AF is far superior to anything I've seen in the dSLR world and way better than the D800E I currently use. Don't know how it compares to the D810, but I imagine it's quite favorable. And shooting WYSIWYG on a beautiful EVF without any mirror blackout has to be experienced to be understood, particularly at an insane 20FPS.

I'm taking the A9 with my Leica lenses and the 85mm to Washington and Oregon this weekend, so I expect to have more to report after that.



Aug 15, 2017 at 01:58 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


charles.K wrote:
Yes the M10 is superb but I agree if there is no 4K video minimum with easy readable codecs I am no longer interested. I do surprisingly a lot of short video clips now and having it within the same body is must have feature. In the past video was a add on but it is now an important feature. I must say I like how the video is implemented with the A7rII and A7s.


Not sure why Leica decided to remove the video feature in the M10 - it comes as sort of freebie with LiveView anyway. For simplicity reasons? I have used the video function of my A7R since I own the camera (3 years now) maybe only 3-4 times. Yes, I could also live with a camera without video function, but I rather have at least the option than not having it in the first place. For the price of the M10....Leica should have kept/added the video function IMO.



Aug 15, 2017 at 11:37 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I think most people that shoot with a rangefinder don't use it or want it. I know I don't. Leica M is not about the bells and whistles. I purposely bought the M-E and the M 262 because it didn't have video. I bought the original MM because it didn't have it and it is only B&W. A lot of choices out there that have it. Not many that don't. Nice to have a real choice. Here in the states there is a VERY long waiting list to get one (M 10)so I must not be the only one that feels this way. Lots of choices from other folks if you want video. If I were to shoot video I wouldn't do it with a rangefinder or even a DSLR or mirrorless. In my opinion Leica M isn't and shouldn't be a one size fits all option.


Aug 15, 2017 at 11:48 AM
Arka
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


retrofocus wrote:
Not sure why Leica decided to remove the video feature in the M10 - it comes as sort of freebie with LiveView anyway. For simplicity reasons? I have used the video function of my A7R since I own the camera (3 years now) maybe only 3-4 times. Yes, I could also live with a camera without video function, but I rather have at least the option than not having it in the first place. For the price of the M10....Leica should have kept/added the video function IMO.


I'm in the same boat as Charles - I'm not in the position of needing a dedicated video camera for production work, but have often captured key moments beautifully with a well-implemented and unobtrusive video button on the M. I'm looking forward to seeing how the video performs on the A9.

The removal of this feature from the M10 rendered it a non-starter for me, particularly at the $6500 price point. I'm glad Leica's selling enough to create a wait list, though I won't be stepping in line. That said, perhaps Leica will someday produce something like an interchangeable-lens Q (basically an M without the mechanical RF, and an EVF), and I will find myself owning another Leica camera again. I know I'm going to miss a lot of about my M240, but I won't miss the slow performance and frequent CLAs.



Aug 15, 2017 at 04:40 PM
Arka
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


adamdewilde wrote:
The A9 is a far different beast to the A7rII. If you don't need the MPX then I suggest A9 for anything fast. Nothing I've used even comes close.
I'm with you on size, I had no problems with my S-system when I was using it. To me the size is not an issue. Once I commit to taking out a certain tool, I just take it and use it. In fact, I'm quite sad I didn't have it this trip to NZ as there were a few things I would have loved to have the S-system for. BUT I
...Show more

This is consistent with my limited experience. AF on the A9 is ridiculously accurate on stationary and moving subjects, instantaneous, capable of operating reliably at 20FPS with no mirror blackout, and covers almost the entire frame. I've never seen anything quite like it. It's A7 predecessors are not an accurate benchmark for comparison.



Aug 15, 2017 at 04:46 PM
zhangyue
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
I am lugging my Leica S 35/70/180 and tripod to mountain for 10 miles hike in Sequoia and kings canyon national park. I did the same in Canada rocky. Unless I am doing overnight hike, I don't see this is a problem. Yes, it is heavier, but viewing experience is way better. I miss flip LCD though, especially for tripod work.

I can see many reasons to adapter small lenses on Sony. But once you put Huge SLR lens on it, the advantage disappeared. I did bring A7RII. At high contrast sequoia nation forest, the EVF is totally unpleasant, do
...Show more

Sorry about my tone in my previous post. I was in a hurry with cellphone post. I modify the post make it more clear and correct typo. My intention is not simple turn down one system but boost other.

I certainly value Sony systems during travelling. It is way lighter and smaller with 15VC/, 35/55FE and 90APO. For the similar system with S or Nikon, I need a pelicon 1510 or huge backpack for that. but with Sony, I just need wear a pant with lots of pocket

As for A9, the biggest incentive for me if I get it would be shooting experience of new EVF as well as operating speed and customer manual system. (A7RII is really lacking here such as image review, zoom time etc ) AF would be nice but it is only 2nd consideration for me personally. no 20f/s needed at all

I agree, if A9 is really that good, it will be direct competitor for D850 for anyone consider in this price range. and I think Sony can afford aggressively price it given it has lower manufacture cost and also based on Alpha selling history. Their lens are quite expensive though and not much smaller and QC seems always their big problems, I know it based on my personal experience.

Arka, thanks for explanation about A9 and D800e.



Aug 15, 2017 at 05:31 PM
davewolfs
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Unless you are shooting action why would anyone need 20 FPS? How is it that colors on the A9 are any different then the A7RII or A7II?


Aug 15, 2017 at 05:46 PM
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