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Archive 2017 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?

  
 
rscheffler
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p.14 #1 · p.14 #1 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Steve, I agree. Canon and particularly Nikon still have work to do. I don't think the EVF aspect is such a hurdle. As you stated, it's sensor speed that will be the major factor whether or not their mirrorless cameras will offer sufficient performance. Maybe rather than a direct a9 competitor they'll instead go laterally with a 5D type camera, since their top-end DSLRs are currently still competitive with the a9. That said, I'd rather see a 1DX style mirrorless than a slower offering.

I wonder what frequency the 1DXII sensor operates at, considering it can do 4K/60P (though only from a cropped portion)?



Sep 02, 2017 at 11:20 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.14 #2 · p.14 #2 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Steve Spencer wrote:
They have achieved a lot. It seems they have a pretty good to excellent perhaps sensor based AF system. That is a huge deal and one of the main challenges of mirrorless.


Yeah I'm real concerned Nikon still isn't with the on-sensor PDAF.

Steve Spencer wrote:
It seems more likely they would need multiple adapters and only the E lenses would adapt well. This obviously would be less than ideal in the short run, but probably not a long term problem.


Certainly the E would be simper and cheaper, and yeah they might want to do a separate more expensive G-and-earlier adapter for that reason (and risk market confusion). But I don't think that second adapter would be a big problem. They've got TC's that work just fine with G and D lenses, right?

On the other hand, if it is a problem, I think it might be a bigger one than you say. I theorize that they don't have a shot in mirrorless unless they leverage their legacy lens ownership advantage. I also theorize that they can't hold off on mirrorless until the majority of that ownership is in E glass.



Sep 04, 2017 at 09:44 PM
zhangyue
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p.14 #3 · p.14 #3 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Looks like pre-order for this Nikon is quite overwhelming. There were lots of talk that first batch can only be enough to support NPS members. Mine was ordered about 10 mins after BH and Adorama link were up. I saw some people claim 4 min over he is on the list of 350 or below

I got my D800e first batch at that time, It was suppose a hot one as well, I don't feel it was as hot as now. Maybe Nikon own its users too much.....Well, Good products will sell. I still Love D700, none of digital camera get my emotion this much.

I hope I can get one before Oct Trip.

BTW, I know Charles will get one soon Hope he can share with us some nice images and thoughts.



Sep 06, 2017 at 03:40 PM
zhangyue
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p.14 #4 · p.14 #4 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Apparently, I can't get mine from first batch I will patently wait 2nd batch.

Looks like Nikon doesn't have Silent shutter Dynamic range penalty that Sony A7RII does.

From video here Tony Northrup did some test to address one of my biggest concerns about whole LV thing.



at around 16min. It seems no noise penalty for electronic shutter at base ISO which is more relevant to my use for this feature.

From Video, I am also surprised D850 offer almost comparable high ISO performance to A7RII. This is unexpected based on what I got from Bill Claff's result.

In the Video, D850 also show noticeable DR advantage to D810 both at ISO64, another surprise.

In the mean time, Irental, a similar rental company in China like lensrental here also did some technical test about D850. It rank only 2nd behind Phase IQ3100 in Dynamic Range test.

http://thumbnail.xitek.com/pics/201709/95756/9575686/9575686_1504342799.jpg!w640.jpg

You can ignore the score, but their testing are very good(technical) based on my past experience, no matter Lens or Camera, definitely best in China.

Here is one for High ISO performance (equivalent resolution at high ISO)

http://forum.xitek.com/pics/201709/21114/2111447/2111447_1504399875.jpg

And here is the dynamic range comparison between D850(native resolution and down sample to 36M) and D810 at 1/60S. I don't understand this result compare to Tony's Video though this seems match Bill Claff's DR curve.

http://forum.xitek.com/pics/201709/21114/2111447/2111447_1504399909.jpg

I am putting effort to collect some information here in Alt forum so people can know more information about other side in additional to MILC as I don't think Alt forum should be equivalent to MILC forum.




Sep 07, 2017 at 11:58 PM
Mark K
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p.14 #5 · p.14 #5 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


just another great camera Nikon makes...and time to retire my D800 now


Sep 17, 2017 at 05:37 PM
Stoffer
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p.14 #6 · p.14 #6 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


With all the tests, images and impressions that I have read to date, there is no doubt in my mind that the Nikon D850 is is absolute stellar camera! If I had Nikon glas, or was starting out from scratch, I would get this camera, no questions asked.

However, having to sell all of my Sony system (and the excellent Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II) would be a big and costly move, so I'm going to kill the GAS off for now and see what Sony have in store with the A7rIII / A9r first. I can't afford to support two systems.

The A9 is still a remote possibility too, but I guess the main reason for staying put right now is that a) mirrorless is probably the future for me anyway, or b) Sony could still surprise us with the A7r2 replacement being faster and more responsive that I assuming.

So, I will need to warm up to my A7r2 for the time being. Could be worse.



Sep 18, 2017 at 05:52 AM
zhangyue
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p.14 #7 · p.14 #7 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Stoffer wrote:
With all the tests, images and impressions that I have read to date, there is no doubt in my mind that the Nikon D850 is is absolute stellar camera! If I had Nikon glas, or was starting out from scratch, I would get this camera, no questions asked.

However, having to sell all of my Sony system (and the excellent Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II) would be a big and costly move, so I'm going to kill the GAS off for now and see what Sony have in store with the A7rIII / A9r first. I can't afford to support
...Show more

Glad you have this figure out. Buying D850 is mainly for buying into the system.If you are not comfortable with that commitment I think you made a good decision to wait for A7RIII. It was a very easy choice for me. The problem is when I can get one.



Sep 18, 2017 at 11:31 AM
Stoffer
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p.14 #8 · p.14 #8 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
Glad you have this figure out. Buying D850 is mainly for buying into the system.If you are not comfortable with that commitment I think you made a good decision to wait for A7RIII. It was a very easy choice for me. The problem is when I can get one.


Yeah, and if A7rIII is going to be a slow mega MP monster, the D850 will still be available! I certainly haven't written it off, Sony just need to show they hand first.



Sep 18, 2017 at 12:06 PM
zhangyue
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p.14 #9 · p.14 #9 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Finally, got the camera. I spend 20 mins to set it up as I wanted and shoot a few tens of frame testing AF and low light file and also LCD. Make it simple: 'home run'.

I will not post here but join Nikon forum later (given that talk SLR seems no one care now ). This is a last post to conclude this thread.

A short summary:

If you come from D810, you won't feel as 'WOW' as from lower model from Nikon or any MILC I have used. Otherwise, be prepare to be shocked

1. VF is definitely nicer but not significantly so compare to DF I have on hand. No comparison to Leica S. (no more D810). I will attach DK17 magnifying eyepiece later. It is double edge sword though from my past experience, it also reduce contrast.
2. AF can see in the dark. and extreme accurate on all the point tested even with 'Sigma art'. AF-C is pretty awesome at night with 50G and 85G.
3. Skin tone from JPG, I am pretty sure it was improved compare to D810, especially orange yellow, more uniform less blotch under artificial light. I need play raw to draw full conclusion. but for now, I can conclude it is the best out of last generation Nikon. (pretty sure) keep in mind, this is personal.
4. LV is super good, I tested in almost full darkness, I still can focus. This is a huge improvement compare to D810. I am pretty sure this will make star shooting feasible.
5. low light high ISO color cast is gone, this is huge to me. the benefit can be seen along the way from ISO3200 up to ISO25600. Compare to D810, I'd say DR at low light might more than 1 stop visually. seems this is not reflected on Bill's sensor measurement compare to D810. But purple color cast is gone make file look way nicer. For night shooting, you always need push shadow somewhat if you have foreground. Noise is fine for most case but not color cast. So I would say this is at least a stop better night camera than D810 in real world.
6. green point focus aid. This is important feature for me. At the time I got D800e, I report right away that I don't feel it improve upon D700. So was D810 and DF. but this time, I can say it improved by using OTUS and Sigma art 85mm around house. The focus range is much tight for green dot on. AND it can focus almost full darkness. NICE!. I wasn't able to test it at long distance outdoor yet. So stay tuned.
7. LCD is best I have used for viewing during LV or image review (instant, and can be set 50% upto 200%), and you can use it like iphone to zoom in and scroll around, there is no lag, NO LAG. double tap will bring you zoom as you desired in your setting, and double tap again will bring you back to full image. Focus on LV, you have the option to focus and shoot at the same time. pretty handy. the option is on screen, you don't need dig dig dig into manual.
8. Control and ergonomics, I don't have complain for D810, this one is even better by adding all way button for focus point and having ISO to right side is big plus to me. They also as fn button for me use it to bring up customer manual. (I use AEL before which is gone, no big deal. I never use that AEL button than bring customer manual )

Any cons? Sure:

1. it is heavy with the lenses I tried. (OTUS and Art) well, what you can expect.
2. There is no noticeable build difference compare to D810. not a bad thing but definitely not as good as D700 or D3/4/5. I can appreciate 200~300g weight reduction though. so no complain. The grip handle is deeper but not wider, I still prefer holding D700's fat grip.
3. Manual system get more complicated after each revision with added feature. This definitely indicate there is always market for DF2 if they do things right. 90% is unnecessary. They can learn something from Leica here. Though after 10 mins setup and with customer manual, I am sure I don't need surf into manual ever. but for first time Nikon user, this could be overwhelming.
4. use touch scree for manual scroll is not very good. it is not icon based but drop down list so flip pg is not as intuitive as smart phone device. but no big deal, I just use old way and I seldom need go to manual for Nikon system.

As you can see there is no much to say about its flaw. That is exact as I expected in the beginning of this thread.

BTW, there is almost no difference in term of shutter sound and damp compare to D810. A big release for me.

Edited on Sep 21, 2017 at 12:56 PM · View previous versions



Sep 20, 2017 at 02:04 PM
uscmatt99
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p.14 #10 · p.14 #10 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Excellent post! I have a few Zeiss and CV lenses in F-mount that I adapt to my A7II, but I miss the ergonomics of the Nikon bodies I used to shoot with. The news regarding live-view and the green focus dot is great. I'll have to try out my lenses at the local shop when they get a demo D850 in stock.

zhangyue wrote:
Finally, got the camera. I spend 20 mins to set it up as I wanted and shoot a few tens of frame testing AF and low light file and also LCD. Make it simple: 'home run'.

I will not post here but join Nikon forum later (given that talk SLR seems no one care now ). This is a last post to conclude this thread.

A short summary:

If you come from D810, you won't feel as 'WOW' as from lower model from Nikon or any MILC I have used. Otherwise, be prepare to be shocked

1. VF is definitely
...Show more




Sep 20, 2017 at 05:11 PM
charles.K
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p.14 #11 · p.14 #11 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
Finally, got the camera. I spend 20 mins to set it up as I wanted and shoot a few tens of frame testing AF and low light file and also LCD. Make it simple: 'home run'.

I will not post here but join Nikon forum later (given that talk SLR seems no one care now ). This is a last post to conclude this thread.

A short summary:

If you come from D810, you won't feel as 'WOW' as from lower model from Nikon or any MILC I have used. Otherwise, be prepare to be shocked

1. VF is definitely
...Show more

Great summary Michael The D850 is truly an amazing camera and in spite of being the dinosaur DSLR, I love taking shots with this camera. It is a lot of fun and more so when you see the IQ that is possible. I was completely set on acquiring the Fuji GFX 50s but I feel no need now as the difference in IQ is more defined by the available lenses and fast AF that will ensure sharp images.

For those who know me, I came from SLR/DSLR's back in 2009 to Leica and vowed never to go back DSLR for the size and weight alone. At the time 5DII AF I found very frustrating and felt MF with the Leica M9/M240 was much better and loved the Leica ergonomics and superb lenses albeit at a different price level. Sony A7r/A7s/A7II and A7rII was superb too for 4 years but never fully gelled with me.

I have almost done a full circle now with Nikon and the Fuji XT2 as my MILC. Best of both. I am surprised how many people have picked my D850 and love it in spite of being larger/heavier than their MILC's.

Don't get me wrong, choose the system that suits but for now I am loving the D850




Sep 20, 2017 at 05:53 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.14 #12 · p.14 #12 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Interesting post in Lloyd Chamber's blog about flange distance off which causes manual focus lens to not focus properly. Infinity focus is not at infinity mark like on previous cameras D800, D810.
Is this a QC blunder?



Oct 01, 2017 at 11:58 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.14 #13 · p.14 #13 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Yeah he got a camera that was well out of the tolerance range they ought to be letting out of the factory.

My problem is: things happen. He wrote about it as soon as he discovered it in a way that I feel would only be appropriate if/when either Nikon refused to fix/replace it and/or the issue turned out to be widespread.



Oct 01, 2017 at 12:12 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.14 #14 · p.14 #14 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Yeah, saw that he posted reports from other owners of the same problem. Wondering how wide spread this is?


Oct 01, 2017 at 12:15 PM
zhangyue
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p.14 #15 · p.14 #15 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


BTW, a DXO score just come here
New king arises Kidding.

Now,with more time use it, I'd say shutter shock indeed feel a little more on hand holding than D810, extra care needed compare to D810.

The multi way button location is not very natural location during shooting. I don't use it much in the end. I think I will if it isn't in the awkward location.

The silent LV touch shutter with program delay is so damn nice in field with tripod shooting. The sensor is insane good. I played a few RAW i captured in REDWOOD forest and beach in C1 pro, so damn nice, I look forward for LR support.

I do feel the weight when I put OTUS and sigma art on it, expected but in some situation I really wish I can shoot Leica or Sony. Well, a trade off is trade off. No wonder people said SLR are dinosaurs. I'd say there is no much saving in terms of weight compare D850 setup and Leica S, D850 has lots of useful feature during shooting but S files and Lenses are gorgeous.

The green(now yellow actually ) dot focus confirmation is confirmed improved and is very usable under all condition I tried. They definitely change the algorithm, with Lens like 55OTUS and 85/135Art, the confirmation window is very narrow and solid under almost all distance, and it keep blink with 80lux under all condition as well . I prefer this to peaking before, now I prefer it even more, simple and elegant without disturbing during shooting.

I find I personally like shooting back light with high DR scene. OVF is a must for me in this case so that I can aware of shadow stuff in my composition. Yesterday, I shoot M 1.5 hour before sunset, the golden harsh light was gorgeous. I turn on the LV of M240 for focus checking(only for very narrow DOF stuff) and sunstar checking, but always use OVF to shoot. I realize Leica M actually is the best implementation for MILC that I can have both at the same time. Turn on LV with M240, the shutter is much quieter compare to only RF shooting. another incentive. (I can hold 1/30s with 90APO) For D850, unfortunately either LV or OVF. I wish a 36M Leica without mandatory NR in the future. I have zero need for AF or eye AF etc.......

If you are still use ZF/ZE or R, or plan to get OTUS etc, there is no better machine than D850 right now IMHO. If you think a split image focus screen is better than focus confirmation, think twice. I have it installed on my S, not very useful IMO. (very slow to focus and no better accuracy than focus confirmation) I am thinking to pick MP100 or Zeiss18/21 for D850 to complete a landscape setup. The new Milvus 35 is so nice though another brick in size. The current trend of SLR (size and weight) with SLR lens (size and weight) is really MF of 30 years ago, they will be niche and niche-er in the future.

Though I will always be a niche user. (proudly admit it.)



Oct 06, 2017 at 01:06 PM
davewolfs
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p.14 #16 · p.14 #16 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Last time I tried focus dot was with a D700 and it was always terrible. The tolerance and range was way too high. I appreciate your feedback. I’d really have to try it out and see. That is great news if it’s actually accurate.


Oct 07, 2017 at 10:25 PM
Hillrg`
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p.14 #17 · p.14 #17 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
The green(now yellow actually ) dot focus confirmation is confirmed improved and is very usable under all condition I tried. They definitely change the algorithm, with Lens like 55OTUS and 85/135Art, the confirmation window is very narrow and solid under almost all distance, and it keep blink with 80lux under all condition as well . I prefer this to peaking before, now I prefer it even more, simple and elegant without disturbing during shooting.


You are talking about the focus dot on the lower left side in the viewfinder? It is white in my D850 and still has a wider confirmation window than critical focus. When I dot tune I see a range of 10 steps where there is only the solid dot with no arrows or blinking.




Oct 07, 2017 at 11:07 PM
zhangyue
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p.14 #18 · p.14 #18 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


What lens? For OTUS 55 I only fine tune -6 for my copy. Even plus minus 2 will light up arrow if you LV focus before. For rest of my R lens, I dont have the fine tune available. It will not make difference. But when focus from MFD to infinity, whenever it stop blink it is the location of focus point. It works every single time for me.

I find it looks hard to explain how to use this in writing but the concept is extreamly easy if users use some brain to figure out how to use it? Why it fail? How it fail? Is it front or back focus? The camera has to figure out when is acceptable sharpness reached? Once the tolerance tighter, you get better results but it is still need you funderemntally understand the concepts of focusing.

TBH, I don't have problem even with D700, DF and D810 before. And for D850, the difference is all I need for it to perfect usable.

Light blue, light yellow or light green, Whatever you call it. It is not white though. I don't know why I say it's green before, maybe because DF, for D810, they maybe the same always. I no longer have D700 and D810 on hand to check but for DF it is green.

Hillrg` wrote:
You are talking about the focus dot on the lower left side in the viewfinder? It is white in my D850 and still has a wider confirmation window than critical focus. When I dot tune I see a range of 10 steps where there is only the solid dot with no arrows or blinking.





Oct 07, 2017 at 11:54 PM
davewolfs
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p.14 #19 · p.14 #19 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


My vision is fairly poor so if it’s similar to the D700 it is a no go. I had the Katz eye before along with some very nice Zeiss lenses and my hit rate was poor, so much so that I just sold anything that was manual and stuck with AF lenses.

If a lot of my shots were Tripod/landscape style the D850 would be my tool of choice. For now I just shoot for fun with some Loxia lenses.

I still think the Nikon 35G has a beautiful rendering. Would like to see an E version or test drive the Sigma ART.



Oct 08, 2017 at 12:06 AM
Hillrg`
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p.14 #20 · p.14 #20 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
What lens? For OTUS 55 I only fine tune -6 for my copy. Even plus minus 2 will light up arrow if you LV focus before. For rest of my R lens, I dont have the fine tune available. It will not make difference. But when focus from MFD to infinity, whenever it stop blink it is the location of focus point. It works every single time for me.

I find it looks hard to explain how to use this in writing but the concept is extreamly easy if users use some brain to figure out how to use it?
...Show more

I'm getting a fine-tune range of around 10 for the Nikon 85/1.4, 300VR and 500VR lenses. I'm just saying my experience is different than yours Michael. I don't think this is a matter of brains either. :*) I'm an experienced photographer and I thoroughly understand the Nikon system and how focus works - that's why I'm interested in your claims as they are different than my experience. I do agree the focus dot window is more accurate than the D810. And check the colour of the dot on your D850. :*)



Oct 08, 2017 at 12:09 AM
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