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D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?
  
 
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Arka wrote:
This will be an expensive year. Getting a Sony A9 for my Leica lenses (and a few native Sony optics), and a D850 for my Nikkors.


I say get an M 10 for your Leica lenses.



Aug 12, 2017 at 06:36 AM
adamdewilde
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I like OVF cameras but I've completely given up on Canon and Nikon, the A9 sealed it for me and here's why:

1) lens selection is enough for all my work needs
2) I find lenses superior to Canikon offerings
3) Sensor colours are finally good enough for me not to pull out my hair
4) I haven't had to worry about buffer of FPS once (I'm not a machine gun shooter but I did shoot some stop motion waves hitting rocks so far this trip to AU and NZ)
5) The AF is a non-issue, as in, no matter what I do it works day or night. Photo or video it just works.

What do I miss about Canon:

1) sensor colours for skin tones
2) F/1.2 lenses are nice when you need them
3) quick turn around on repairs and etc

What do I miss about Nikon:

1) Body ergonomics (although the D700 was still my favourite DSLR ergo wise)


I don't use ALT lenses much if at all anymore on my work bodies.. I have a small Leica M kit for my travel/fun needs. And I have an SL kit that I'm still on the fence about.. And I use to hate Sony sensors, so it's saying something that I'm on board with the A9 although again I prefer canon colours.


With all that said, if Canon made a mirrorless FF camera w/a full set of lenses (emphasis on compact so like f/2 lenses) I'd probably give it a shot. BUT at this point I don't really know what Nikon could do that would make me switch back from Sony.




Aug 12, 2017 at 07:01 AM
zhangyue
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


adamdewilde wrote:
I like OVF cameras but I've completely given up on Canon and Nikon, the A9 sealed it for me and here's why:

1) lens selection is enough for all my work needs
2) I find lenses superior to Canikon offerings
3) Sensor colours are finally good enough for me not to pull out my hair
4) I haven't had to worry about buffer of FPS once (I'm not a machine gun shooter but I did shoot some stop motion waves hitting rocks so far this trip to AU and NZ)
5) The AF is a non-issue, as in, no matter what I do it works
...Show more

Haha, looks like not much to miss with Nikon. For pro, the lens selection of Nikon is quite good now actually, the latest introduced 28E, 105E, 70-200E are all top. 45M sensor could be a problems for wedding. I think if Nikon get another one at 24-30M with similar spec will get lots of customers.

I am surprised you are so satisfied with Sony. A9 must be really great. I need try it sometimes. Most retailer around me out of business now and I don't want buy it and return it if I don't like it. I like Sony color actually, even slightly better than Nikon.

As for Lens, I don't think Sony is better. Some are nice such as 85GM or 50, some not, just like Nikon or Canon Lens, don't forget Sigma lenses, I tried 35 and 85 art so far, both are very nice.

For travel, Sony is definitely a plus compare to Canikon system if you are not use those huge native lenses. This reason alone will have me keep a Sony body around for a long time until it is fully mature to replace my other systems. (or never)




Aug 12, 2017 at 08:01 AM
charles.K
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


airfrogusmc wrote:
I say get an M 10 for your Leica lenses.


I gave up using Leica M adapted lenses on the A7r/A7s/A7II and A7rII after 18 months even after having converted the A7r with the Kolari modification. The M10 looks to be a superb system and very much tempted




Aug 12, 2017 at 09:20 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


zhangyue wrote:
Haha, looks like not much to miss with Nikon. For pro, the lens selection of Nikon is quite good now actually, the latest introduced 28E, 105E, 70-200E are all top. 45M sensor could be a problems for wedding. I think if Nikon get another one at 24-30M with similar spec will get lots of customers.

I am surprised you are so satisfied with Sony. A9 must be really great. I need try it sometimes. Most retailer around me out of business now and I don't want buy it and return it if I don't like it. I like Sony color
...Show more

Sony lenses are hit and miss. The Loxia 21, ZA 35, ZA 50, ZA 55 and FE 85 1.8 are terrific. The 70-200 F4, 70-200 2.8 GM aren't as good as Canikon. Sony offers no 35 f2/1.8 option and I personally never liked the GM 85 or Batis 85 compared to other great portrait lenses. Loxia 35/50 are mf, need to be stopped down. Like most systems, some superb, some not.

I have an a9 and A7rii, unless I need af, I always reach for the A7rii. You feel the lack of comparative res with most cropping and the DR is worse at base, files feel more fragile in post and noisier. But that AF is blazing and fps are insane.

The d850 will be great--I'd be most excited for that DR/res combo. Nikon files have a certain smoothness to them lacking in my Sonys. Took me a while to process to the strengths on Nikon files. I like both types of IQ though.



Aug 12, 2017 at 11:35 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I have two questions about the D850:
1) Does it have electronic shutter mode? Assume it does. Love that on my 5DSR along with the better LV mode implementation than my D800E.
2) How is the LV mode on d850? Same as D810 or better?
Have been not using my D800E much after getting my 5DSR.
So I am a dinosaur Canikon DSLR shooter with a RX1 if I want to go light. I am pretty happy with my 5DSR right now but will look at this d850 but not in a hurry. May replace my D800E eventually.
Happy with my ZF mount Otus 28 and 55 which need a DSLR to balance well. Who knows, my next camera might be a LF for wet plate photography.
Should be a great camera.



Aug 12, 2017 at 12:18 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I see now from specs mentioned in Nikon forum that it has fully electronic shutter mode. Great!



Aug 12, 2017 at 01:14 PM
retrofocus
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


airfrogusmc wrote:
I say get an M 10 for your Leica lenses.


If there wasn't more than > $2K of price difference between Sony A9 and Leica M10, this option would be the best. But seeing how crazy high Sony's A7 series prices are getting these days, the gap between Leica and Sony more and more narrows. For a smaller difference, you would be better off with a Leica M especially in regard to resale value.



Aug 12, 2017 at 02:52 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


charles.K wrote:
I gave up using Leica M adapted lenses on the A7r/A7s/A7II and A7rII after 18 months even after having converted the A7r with the Kolari modification. The M10 looks to be a superb system and very much tempted



Do it Charles!!! Would you also keep your Fuji kit though?



Aug 12, 2017 at 03:20 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


retrofocus wrote:
If there wasn't more than > $2K of price difference between Sony A9 and Leica M10, this option would be the best. But seeing how crazy high Sony's A7 series prices are getting these days, the gap between Leica and Sony more and more narrows. For a smaller difference, you would be better off with a Leica M especially in regard to resale value.


Not a fan of Sony. Leica is the true rangefinder and that is my tool of choice. I tend to buy Leica not only for what it is but for all the stuff it doesn't have. It is great to be able to look down at the camera and not to have to go to the menu to see ISO, shutter speeds and aperture in a glance. The back of the camera only has 3 buttons and the menu is probably the easiest (even easier that the M 262) digital menu I have ever used. Noting gets in the way of the process. And finally an amazingly responsive, great high ISO, no bigger than an M7 digital M. If you are a Leica M lover and can pick one up do it.



Aug 12, 2017 at 04:18 PM
 

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retrofocus
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


airfrogusmc wrote:
Not a fan of Sony. Leica is the true rangefinder and that is my tool of choice. I tend to buy Leica not only for what it is but for all the stuff it doesn't have. It is great to be able to look down at the camera and not to have to go to the menu to see ISO, shutter speeds and aperture in a glance. The back of the camera only has 3 buttons and the menu is probably the easiest (even easier that the M 262) digital menu I have ever used. Noting gets in the way
...Show more

This discussion is a bit off-topic here, but still want to reply. I love Leica M, but I limit myself to film M versions. The M10 is finally a good digital M - currently the only one I would consider to buy. Problem is: I also shoot Sony and love the 36 MP sensor and its DR. I wish the M10 had this (or a newer version) of this Exmor FF sensor - it would be my dream camera. I don't mind having options in electronic settings - I rather not use them than being limited upfront by not having them. I will continue shooting Leica M for film and Sony A7 series for digital.



Aug 12, 2017 at 04:41 PM
charles.K
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Gary Clennan wrote:
Do it Charles!!! Would you also keep your Fuji kit though?


The Leica M system is superb and fun to use. For now I will keep my Fuji alongside my D850




Aug 12, 2017 at 05:09 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


retrofocus wrote:
This discussion is a bit off-topic here, but still want to reply. I love Leica M, but I limit myself to film M versions. The M10 is finally a good digital M - currently the only one I would consider to buy. Problem is: I also shoot Sony and love the 36 MP sensor and its DR. I wish the M10 had this (or a newer version) of this Exmor FF sensor - it would be my dream camera. I don't mind having options in electronic settings - I rather not use them than being limited upfront by not having
...Show more

The DR from the new M 10 is amazing.. The files out if camera are the best from a color digital M. I will say this is the finest digital camera (135 format or crop format) that I have ever shot with and I have shot with quite a few. I like it better than both Sony or Fuji. (I actually like my 262 better also but this is a good step up from the 262 & 240) I don't use any automation. 40 years of doing it all manual I can surely make faster and better exposure decisions on the way I want my work to look than any computer can. It is a true alternative to everything else out there.



Aug 12, 2017 at 05:35 PM
Arka
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Not a good choice for me. My shooting preferences have evolved away from Leica M cameras, though I still love the tiny M lenses. I would benefit more from fast and reliable WYSIWYG focus aids (focus peaking - my RFs go out of calibration too often and are expensive to recalibrate), fast overall camera performance, possible AF adapters or the occasional reliable AF lens, and video. The M10 gives me none of those things and costs $2000 more than the Sony. It may be that the Leica M will give me better overall performance with Leica lenses, but I usually shoot my Summiluxes wide open, where corner performance isn't a big issue. So I'm saying goodbye to Leica cameras (for now).

airfrogusmc wrote:
I say get an M 10 for your Leica lenses.




Aug 12, 2017 at 07:07 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


Nice to have choices.

I have no need or use for video. If I were to do video I would by a really good video camera. Proper tool and all that. They go out of calibration often? My 5 year old MM has never gone out of calibration. Neither has my M 262 or my M-E either. Fast operation? Good DoF scales and being able to use them is as fast as it gets. No autofocus i the world is faster than being pre focused.

BTW The M 10 has LV and very good focus peaking.



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:16 PM
Arka
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I certainly haven't been shooting RF for as long as you, but I share a lot of your preferences with respect to simplicity in camera UI, and in the need for the camera to "get out of the way" of my process. If I felt Sony A9 was complicating or interfering with or my process, I wouldn't consider it. But using the camera with my Ms and a few of its native lenses persuaded me that it has the potential to both simplify my photography and help me catch the moments I'm missing with my current equipment. The ability to put an M lens on it, MF until the clear focus peaking appears where I want it, and shoot without delay, is really breathtaking. And the camera is smaller and lighter than my M, unlike the solid but ungainly SL.

I've had a love-hate (mostly love, but occasionally passionate hate) relationship with my M240 over the last five years. It is still my favorite and most used camera, but it is also the one that requires the most maintenance and recalibration to keep in perfect functional order (it's been to Solms twice for warranty repairs and CLA'ed once a year). Also, if you ever have to use the rear screen or accessory VF, it's really slow. The Sony A9 banishes all those problems, adds significant but manageable UI complexity, and enables a variety of additional approaches to fulfilling my documentary and artistic ambitions. (The loss of video was really the feature that utterly killed the M10 for me).

We're all different and I know you'll flourish in the M system. I still love the M cameras for a variety of reasons and may get an M11 or M12 some day. But right now, Leica camera offerings don't satisfy me.

airfrogusmc wrote:
Not a fan of Sony. Leica is the true rangefinder and that is my tool of choice. I tend to buy Leica not only for what it is but for all the stuff it doesn't have. It is great to be able to look down at the camera and not to have to go to the menu to see ISO, shutter speeds and aperture in a glance. The back of the camera only has 3 buttons and the menu is probably the easiest (even easier that the M 262) digital menu I have ever used. Noting gets in the way
...Show more



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:28 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


The new M 10s screen and live you is not slow like the M 240. The loss of video was a huge plus for me. I doubt you will ever see an M with it again.

I can't imagine anyone being harder on equipment than I am. I had far more trouble with my Canon gear by the shutter count and time I have had my Ms. I was shooting for NATO here in Chicago in 2012 and had a complete shutter failure. I had problems with all of my Canon bodies by a year and a half in. I have only had the sensor recall for my MM and M-E. Knock on wood no other issues at all.



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:34 PM
Arka
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


You and I will never agree on the video issue. Suffice to say that any camera without video capability is one I won't buy. I'm not making Game of Thrones, for which a professional tool is required. For me, the proper tool is the one I have available, and my M has captured moments on video that I and my family will treasure forever. They would never have been captured by a separate dedicated video camera because I've never had one and never will. I'm a stills shooter who occasionally shots opportunistic video when the moment demands it. Losing that flexibility is, in this day and age, unacceptable to me.

I shoot wide open much of the time. DoF scales works pretty well but not perfectly when DoF is so thin. And it doesn't work very well when subjects move unpredictably towards you at high speeds. I much prefer RF or LV focusing under those conditions.

airfrogusmc wrote:
Nice to have choices.

I have no need or use for video. If I were to do video I would by a really good video camera. Proper tool and all that. They go out of calibration often? My 5 year old MM has never gone out of calibration. Neither has my M 262 or my M-E either. Fast operation? Good DoF scales and being able to use them is as fast as it gets. No autofocus i the world is faster than being pre focused.

BTW The M 10 has LV and very good focus peaking.




Aug 12, 2017 at 07:39 PM
Arka
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


You're lucky, or I'm unlucky. My M has seen the inside of a service center far more frequently than any of my Nikons or Canons ever did.

airfrogusmc wrote:
The new M 10s screen and live you is not slow like the M 240. The loss of video was a huge plus for me. I doubt you will ever see an M with it again.

I can't imagine anyone being harder on equipment than I am. I had far more trouble with my Canon gear by the shutter count and time I have had my Ms. I was shooting for NATO here in Chicago in 2012 and had a complete shutter failure. I had problems with all of my Canon bodies by a year and a half in. I
...Show more



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:43 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · D850, now confirmed spec, what you think?


I have several other friends that are also full time pros that have had similar experiences with their Leica Ms. No or not many issues. The one thing that was great about Canon was CPS. They have a location here in the Chicago area (Itasca) so if I had an issue I would have loaners waiting and even a full shutter failure would be less than a week. I do miss that. There is a rumor that Leica is considering a program like CPS which would be great in my opinion. Nikon has NPS correct?



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:47 PM
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