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rico
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Mac users of C1


I'm about to commit some time to Capture One and need to purchase a suitably powerful Mac of some kind because my 2013 MPB 13" isn't going to cut it. Would be interesting to hear what FMers are using, be it laptop, iMac, or even Mac mini. Despite its age, the Mac Pro is looking like the top contender due to its GPU resources which I understand are employed by C1.


Aug 10, 2017 at 02:17 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Mac users of C1


I just got a new 27" 5K iMac i7 with the faster processor. When they were introduced two months ago there was a choice of video cards but now you can only get the better one with 8 gb of vram. 64 gb of ram from OWC. I'm still waiting on other peripherals but the processing time in C1 for a 5DSR raw file dropped from 14 sec in my old old Mac Pro tower to just over 1 second with this new iMac. Over ten times faster. Crazy. Capture One 10 auto configured for the GPU and it seems pretty great.


Aug 10, 2017 at 02:40 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Mac users of C1


I'm still using old 2012 machines: Mac Pro (main machine with dual NEC PA27's) and maxxed out 15" MacBook Pro. The MP's finally starting to feel slow as my library's approached 40k images. C1 slows down as the library grows. Editing images continues to be extremely fast on both machines. The problem is the way C1 loads. Phase One really needs to work on the underlying database, which has been a performance bottleneck for a long time. Load time, both when initially launching the program and when switching among "collections". Once launched and loaded, culling, editing and other operations proceed very quickly.

Yes, C1 uses the GPU. However, you'll get more bang for the buck with faster GHz on your processor, fast SSD, and more RAM (in that order). For me, the biggest advantage of a "current 2013 MP" is the lack of a shiny Apple monitor, so you can pick up [what for me are] more work-friendly non-glare monitors and wider gamut monitors with nicer controls, such as the current NEC PA 2xx line, and more expensive Eizos.



Aug 10, 2017 at 04:06 PM
rico
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Mac users of C1


Thanks, guys. I'll peruse the iMac offerings even though I don't need the monitor (already having a color-managed 27" Eizo).


Aug 11, 2017 at 01:43 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Mac users of C1


rico wrote:
Thanks, guys. I'll peruse the iMac offerings even though I don't need the monitor (already having a color-managed 27" Eizo).



it will make for a nice 2 screen setup though



Aug 11, 2017 at 08:21 AM
Pavel
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Mac users of C1


I use a 2012 iMac and a 2012 MacBook pro 15" and both fly with C1. I've been using C1 since v3 and though I've dabbled with others, nothing comes close to the IQ of Capture One imho, especially for Fuji files. (I've got Nikon, Olympus and Fuji kits, but the Fuji and C1 combo with C1 v 10.1 is the sweeeeeetest look I know.)

Both now use GPU acceleration as of version 10, btw.



Aug 12, 2017 at 12:46 AM
rico
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Mac users of C1


I just pulled the trigger on a shiny new Mac Pro from B&H ($2K for the entry-level 4 core), and will be diving into C1 tomorrow. Am excited for integrated raw conversion and deeper color channels. Gimp is sadly deficient in both areas and, after a decade, I don't care to wait any longer. The "trash can" is more easily upgraded by the owner than Apple will admit: I expect to swap the CPU in short order.


Aug 15, 2017 at 02:24 PM
Pavel
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Mac users of C1


Abbott Schindl wrote:
I'm still using old 2012 machines: Mac Pro (main machine with dual NEC PA27's) and maxxed out 15" MacBook Pro. The MP's finally starting to feel slow as my library's approached 40k images. C1 slows down as the library grows. Editing images continues to be extremely fast on both machines. The problem is the way C1 loads. Phase One really needs to work on the underlying database, which has been a performance bottleneck for a long time. Load time, both when initially launching the program and when switching among "collections". Once launched and loaded, culling, editing and other operations
...Show more

Abbott what you say makes intuitive sense but a few days ago I logged back onto the Phase one forum as I'm testing out C1 v10 to see if I want to upgrade one of my older licenses. By chance I came upon a thread there where someone was asking basically the same question as we are here, what to stuff into a new mac in order to get the best performance boost in C1.

This is the cut and paste answer provided - by an employee of Phase One:

"In addition to Ben's comment, remember that OpenCL (GPU acceleration) will give you a lot of bang for the buck. However, everything depends on each other, and in different ways.
If you have a very fast GPU and a slow CPU, the CPU cannot feed the GPU fast enough.
If your disk isn't fast enough, either in read or write, CPU or GPU performance won't matter, as the bottleneck is the disk.
etc, etc..

Obviously, buy as fast hardware as you can afford.
On pre-built platforms like iMac's and MBP's, I would personally go for a quicker GPU option, and go down on the CPU instead, as the CPU is usually still fast enough anyhow."



Aug 18, 2017 at 04:16 AM
Pavel
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Mac users of C1


I should also point out that C1 v 10 is much much faster on my lame ol' hardware than either v 9 or v 8. The performance gains are huge especially on Fuji files as Phase one has said. I'm on a Mac mini just now so I went in C1 and processed out a file just to see about how fast it went (which I normally don't care about since I make my edits, throw it in the cue and then when I'm done I process the whole cue and leave the machine to do do other things)

On this Mac Mini from 2012, with a lousy video card, ten gigs of ram and two SSD's - the 16 gb file took about a second to process.

I've got a trial of v 10 going right now and own two licenses, one for v 9 and the other for v 8 (for a total of six seats ) I think I'll run an experiment in the next little while and take a batch of about 60 files and see how fast they process out on the three versions on my two macs and then for good measure on my two PC's.

It's funny, but both my workstations are built up far more high end ( Xeon four core 3.2, 24 Gb registered memory and four SSD's in a raid 1+0 plus two data drives)-=- and I still use my five year old macs for editing, every time.



Aug 18, 2017 at 04:30 AM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Mac users of C1


Pavel,

Other than his last comment about prioritizing GPU speed over CPU because CPUs are fast enough anyway, I don't see a conflict between what he says—particularly if you read the final advice in the context of his "in addition to Ben's comment..." and what I did. Also, I recall a similar thread on the Mac C1 10 forum where a P1 employee gave his thoughts for prioritizing CPU, GPU and disk, and if I remember correctly, his advice was similar to mine. The thread was fairly early this year.

What I see is:
- All of the current Macs seem to have a fast enough data buss to deliver data to not be the main bottleneck. Besides, I don't know whether Apple changes the data buss speed (bandwidth) for Mac Pros vs iMacs, so it's not something you can base a purchase decision on.

- Yes, all CPUs are "fast enough", but more GHz/core is faster than fewer GHz/core, and more "real" (as opposed to virtual) cores are better than fewer.

- Yes, OpenCl gives a boost, but with C1 as with other "GPU-benefitting" programs, I haven't found that GPU helps nearly as much as developers would like us to believe. I've easily demonstrated this to myself with C1 by turning graphics acceleration on/off in C1's preferences (there have historically been problems with either C1's implementation, or the APIs or whatever that Apple provides to developers. While I see improvements while OpenCL's turned on, I definitely wouldn't prioritize GPU over CPU as long as the GPU I had was powerful enough to drive the monitor(s) I'm using.

- The P1 employee gave the sage advice I'd expect from any developer or user: buy the most machine you can afford. I've heard similar things from Adobe and MS developers over the year. Basically the line is, "we design for hardware that's expected to be current when our application ships and optimize it for those platforms—therefore it may run less-well on older machines."

When I look at my machines as they run C1 (using iStat Menus), I can see that most of the time the CPU's waiting for data to load (i.e. disk + data buss speeds). During preview creation and when making adjustments, all CPU real cores are working fairly hard, the virtual cores work reasonably hard, and there's still a lot of disk activity (I've come to believe that C1 writes everything it does to disk real-time). When I turn OpenCL off, it takes a LITTLE longer for some things to happen, such as having mask-drawing keep up with my motions on a Wacom tablet, and a LITTLE longer to navigate among images when I'm editing. A LITTLE longer. And I'm using two NEC PA272 monitors, which consume a lot of GPU power just to paint their screens.

Hence my recommendations.

In a way it's too bad that we can't conveniently and affordably rent computer setups like we can camera gear...



Aug 18, 2017 at 04:14 PM
 

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Pavel
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Mac users of C1


Just one last thing to add. I used to not have hardware acceleration on either of my Macs nor on my Main PC, despite having cards that should have worked. Now with v10, I have it on the Macs, though I have not checked it on the PC.

I disagree with buying on the top end. I find buing behind the bleeding edge helps keep incompatibilities from ruining one's day with new drivers etc and the difference between a two year old top end machine or todays lower end versus todays surcharged "best" is minimal in performance. Sort of like going from a 21 to 24 megapixel sensor is for the 95% of high end users. One raw file takes a second to export with a low end five year old Mini.

So many stories on the same forum about how the latest Machine, just bought is having problems. I've been watching that dance for thirteen years now with C1 and have learned to stay off the edge. It's saved me money better spent on glass and a mountain of Tylenol. (especially with Windows) But I get that some need the latest.

Speaking of window, Windows 10 just now when I started it foisted another update on me, and I'm in windows hell. Everything is re-aranged and locked down now. I can't even remove this garbage from my start bar. Surely there must be a way, and I'm not just not seeing it, right.

So now I have to check if Which C1 versions run on Windows 8.1 or be done with the PC side of things. That will save me one of my Capture One license updates, I guess, is the silver lining.



Aug 18, 2017 at 05:42 PM
rico
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Mac users of C1


Still configuring my Mac Pro (4 core, 3.7GHz 12GB, El Capitan, PCIe SSD), but it clearly kicks butt. It animates my 27" 30-bit Eizo without breaking a sweat, and my CPU benchmarking fails to elevate fan speed at all. Will install CO10 this evening: bandwidth isn't going to be an issue.

As for filesystem traffic, if C1 writes out everything it does, then I'll try to direct it to a ramdisk. Gimp also writes more than necessary, so I configure its temporary directory to /dev/shm (Linux ramdisk).



Aug 18, 2017 at 07:22 PM
Pavel
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Mac users of C1


Rico, do you find that Gimp sometimes take a long time to launch. I mean times like 20 minutes? That happens once in a while for me and I tracked down the problem - but have now completely forgotten how I fixed it.

I use Gimp for one task only and that is to do a channel swap on my IR camera. It works ok, but in a sort of 1989 sort of way. Maybe I should learn script-fu, and automate things, but I haven't had the energy or enthusiasm and I"m cautiously optimistic about version 3 being released in my lifetime and making my life fabulous beyond my wildest expectations.

Must be nice setting up a brand new Mac Pro. I don't even want to think about that and get all green.



Aug 18, 2017 at 07:42 PM
rico
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Mac users of C1


@Pavel, As an experiment, I installed Gimp on my little MBP (13", 4GB) and it runs like a dog: I can see the screen update tile-by-tile. Startup time is fine. I suspect a superficial port to OS X but I don't care to explore further. My real Gimp sessions run on my monster Linux machine (dual-socket Xeon, 16 cores, 128GB RAM, Quadra) and don't see any delays ever, for any number of layers or images. I should learn Script-fu, but I prefer bulk-processing with ImageMagick.


Aug 18, 2017 at 08:07 PM
Pavel
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Mac users of C1


Ahh, so you've embraced to lonely road of a Linux Zen Master. I bow. I suspect you are right about the port aspect of it. A while ago I read the interview with the maintainer and was sort of shaken how much it's a few person project of love, this gimp.

And in the other corner ... weighing in at too high to measure - Adobe-Zilla! Now make this a clean fight, keep all api's above the belt, and come out swinging - money!



Aug 18, 2017 at 08:35 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Mac users of C1


Have diddled with C1, but it hasn't stuck. Speaking of stuck, I think I, and probably a lot of us, suffer from battered user syndrome. You know, the software you know that sux big ones is better than the one you don't know cause it will take a lot of work to learn. Currently no known therapy.

I've been looking at the - now reasonably priced - old/new MacPro. Really loved my 2010 and miss the flexibility. Currently running the last gen back iMac loaded full up. Other than Adobe's reticence to use modern programing techniques, it runs everything well.

The old saying from the dawn of PC time is still true. "Your processor can never be too fast, nor can you ever have too much memory." The price difference between pretty good and the top is a relatively small step compared to the total investment. When it's time to upgrade, I suck it up, knock over a 7-11, and buy the best available.



Aug 18, 2017 at 09:05 PM
Pavel
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Mac users of C1


OntheRez wrote:
Have diddled with C1, but it hasn't stuck. Speaking of stuck, I think I, and probably a lot of us, suffer from battered user syndrome. You know, the software you know that sux big ones is better than the one you don't know cause it will take a lot of work to learn. Currently no known therapy.

I've been looking at the - now reasonably priced - old/new MacPro. Really loved my 2010 and miss the flexibility. Currently running the last gen back iMac loaded full up. Other than Adobe's reticence to use modern programing techniques, it runs everything well.

The
...Show more

Where's the "completely love that post" button, when you finally need it.




Aug 18, 2017 at 10:50 PM
rico
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Mac users of C1


OntheRez wrote:
I've been looking at the - now reasonably priced - old/new MacPro. Really loved my 2010 and miss the flexibility.

I will always enjoy the giant-box style of pedestal case, but now understand the nMP design rationale. The top priority was quiet operation, and it succeeds brilliantly. To add compute power quietly required a ground-up rethink of the airflow. The cylinder is defined by one large fan that cools everything. To prevent overheating, all expansion is external and can include PCIe cards in a suitable enclosure. The six Thunderbolt ports provide huge bandwidth to the desktop. This approach to expansion was common in earlier eras (original IBM PC, Macintosh classic, Amiga). Such modularity has higher cost but the machine can then be smaller and enjoy tighter engineering.



Aug 19, 2017 at 12:44 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Mac users of C1


rico wrote:
I will always enjoy the giant-box style of pedestal case, but now understand the nMP design rationale. The top priority was quiet operation, and it succeeds brilliantly. To add compute power quietly required a ground-up rethink of the airflow. The cylinder is defined by one large fan that cools everything. To prevent overheating, all expansion is external and can include PCIe cards in a suitable enclosure. The six Thunderbolt ports provide huge bandwidth to the desktop. This approach to expansion was common in earlier eras (original IBM PC, Macintosh classic, Amiga). Such modularity has higher cost but the machine can
...Show more

I was a little sceptical when they were released and i saw the pictures, but once i saw one in the flesh i was impressed. The trashcan design is really impressive engineering which distills the idea of a powerful standalone workstation for doing local processing of large datasets that are archived on a fast network share. Unfortunately i think at the point it was released this idea was perhaps a little ahead of it's time for most potential buyers outside the video editing industry. The price was also high, and for people who wanted local storage there were too few options for TB accessories. It would appear that Apple shot themselves in the foot a little with the design too, as it obviously wasn't trivial to re-engineer it for the later gen Xeons. Which is a shame.

Just out of interest, why the move to C1 (and concurrent shift from Linux) ?

And did you not consider turning one of your Xeons into a Hackintosh ? I think the Sandy Bridge era stuff is quite "Hackintoshable".



Aug 19, 2017 at 08:30 AM
rico
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Mac users of C1


@15Bit, I just solved a thermal problem for a friend (dead case fan), I have a motherboard swap to perform for another, and I want to upgrade the Xeons on my own box, so no time for Hackintosh projects. Apple makes it really easy to bring a new machine online, and there's some UNIX under the hood. As for C1, it seems like a serious tool. My wallet and I decided not to join the Adobe minions. Linux remains my main OS but advanced photo tools are in short supply.


Aug 19, 2017 at 12:26 PM
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