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Archive 2017 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom

  
 
Pooschey
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom



Thanks for the guidance. I've thinking of moving to C1 Express and I'm not sure about previously processed images in LR. Looks like it needs to be a clean break and redo old images if I want them in C1 then.

Abbott Schindl wrote:
Yes and no. That's part of what locks one into a particular program. Each program uses its own adjustment algorithms.

The "yes" part: You keep your on-disk images where they are: on a disk, in a folder structure. You can import your LR catalog into C1, which brings most of your library structure and metadata into C1.

The "no" part is that C1 doesn't import your LR adjustments.

If I was migrating from LR to C1, I'd do the above and either:
- Keep LR around so I could reuse the images that were edited in it, or
- Bake the adjustments in by
...Show more




Aug 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


Many of us faced the same sort of dilemma when Apple killed Aperture. While Aperture continues to run (if one downloaded the last update while it was available), it won't work with newer cameras and it's slowly breaking. But like LR, keeping it around Lets you view/print/export adjusted images (via TIFF, JPEG for both programs). Also:
- For images that had a roundtrip to PS or a plug-in, those images' adjustments are already "baked in" because the roundtrip was done as a TIFF/JPEG/PSD. The exception is if you further processed in LR after the external editor, in which case:
- for images that had the last processing done in LR (or Aperture), you could "bake in" the adjustments, export from LR (or Aperture) as TIFF/JPEG/PSD, and then import the result into the library.

So yes, you could do a clean break if you needed to, but there could be work involved if you want to keep your as-adjusted images. Since I broke with Aperture, I haven't missed the images I'd adjusted there, since C1 does so much better of a job. You may not see as much difference moving from LR, but my guess is that for the relatively few images you may want to reuse, you'll be happy reworking them in C1.



Aug 31, 2017 at 10:12 AM
Pooschey
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


Yes, from what I've read, it seems that C1 is better off the mark, with very good conversion from the RAW files.

I'll give it a try. My LR images were done some years back, when I was still learning about RAW files, and so many of them were done with presets.

Abbott Schindl wrote:
Many of us faced the same sort of dilemma when Apple killed Aperture. While Aperture continues to run (if one downloaded the last update while it was available), it won't work with newer cameras and it's slowly breaking. But like LR, keeping it around Lets you view/print/export adjusted images (via TIFF, JPEG for both programs). Also:
- For images that had a roundtrip to PS or a plug-in, those images' adjustments are already "baked in" because the roundtrip was done as a TIFF/JPEG/PSD. The exception is if you further processed in LR after the external editor, in which case:
- for
...Show more






Sep 04, 2017 at 11:09 PM
Wilbus
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


I've never really understood why everybody hates Adobe so much for the subscription plan. I guess everybody has their own reasons.

For me it was great, I was never gonna pay $1000 for it, I don't use it enough. I bought Lightroom 4 and was happy with that but when the subscription plan was introduced it enabled be to have both Lightroom and Photoshop for a year for less money then Lightroom originally cost. Win win for me.

Now, if Adobe raise the price it will be a whole other story as far as value goes.

Having said that, I am moving towards C1 again. Lightroom simply does not bring out the best of the RAW files from my Olympus. C1 brings out much more detail and with better noise reduction. Add to that several other interesting tools and it's more enjoyable to use, faster as well.
Sorting pictures is a mess though... :-/



Sep 05, 2017 at 02:48 PM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom




Wilbus wrote:
I've never really understood why everybody hates Adobe so much for the subscription plan. I guess everybody has their own reasons.


Me too. Though I'd dearly love Canon to hire a couple of guns to fix DPP. If only they could rework the GUI and make it more responsive...



Sep 06, 2017 at 09:09 AM
Wilbus
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


Paul Mo wrote:
Me too. Though I'd dearly love Canon to hire a couple of guns to fix DPP. If only they could rework the GUI and make it more responsive...


I haven't used Canon DPP but I used Nikon NX back in the D700 days and in many ways I liked it. Specially the local adjusment points which made it unique but I'm guessing those are gone now since Nik Software is gone.

I shoot Olympus now and Olympus' software is piss poor. Now I'm not saying it doesn't give good results when working with RAW files. I does. But everything is extremely slow, I'm not using the fastest computer in the world but Capture One runs without any hick ups or any delay, as does Lightroom, Photoshop and Affinity Photo. Olympus Viewer on the other hand does not. So I kind of get what you're saying about Canon DPP.




Sep 06, 2017 at 11:19 AM
gdsf2
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


I think the photographer package from Adobe is great. For $10 a month you always have the latest version of two great pieces of software on up to 2 computers. It is a sweet deal.


Sep 16, 2017 at 07:10 PM
alexjj
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


Don't forget about the free/open source alternatives. e.g. Darktable, RawTherapee, Photivo, Raw Studio, DigiKam/ShowFoto ...

Some may not be built for windows, I'm not sure, but they cost you nothing to try and with open source software there's more feedback/interaction in bug fixing, feature requests and testing.

There are many youtube videos on how to get started with these programs.

A great resource for all this is reddit. It's a sensible subreddit.



Sep 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM
Jayteepix
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


butchM wrote:
While I too, have concerns about long term potential problems with Adobe's subscription licensing model, I also think it is important not to confuse these issues with incorrect comments.

No one ever 'lost' their shots with Ps/Lr CC nor did Adobe ever 'own' your shots. Ever. The situation is no different if you started out with C1, DPP or any other software choice and then moved your workflow to another application.

The CC apps did cease to function in the past if you allowed your subscription to lapse, but your shots were always there. Could the work you performed in Lr or
...Show more

If you stop using C1, yes, any edits are lost if you move to another app, but the original image will always be there.
It is my understanding that Phase One uses a standardised XMP format that could be used to maintain edits via some other app don't know which tho'...



Sep 18, 2017 at 03:56 PM
butchM
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


Jayteepix wrote:
If you stop using C1, yes, any edits are lost if you move to another app, but the original image will always be there.
It is my understanding that Phase One uses a standardised XMP format that could be used to maintain edits via some other app don't know which tho'...


Indeed, the metadata added to your image in C1 (keywords, titles, captions and any user info like name, address, copyright, etc.) can be utilized by other options, but not the actual RAW processing settings applied.

Most all the top popular RAW conversion solutions use a 'standardized XMP format' .... BUT ... if your new software solution doesn't use the same exact RAW processing engine (and it won't), the RAW development settings recorded in the XMP data is of little importance. Actually, most apps ignore any such settings in XMP and apply their own as the develop settings from another solution may actually be proprietary to the former app.

It's easy to see how this works. Simply export the XMP from C1 for a test image and open that RAW file in a trial version of any other app of choice and compare the initial results.



Sep 18, 2017 at 04:35 PM
charlyw
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


I don't get where the hate for the subscription model comes from.

I also don't get why everybody only concentrates on the RAW converter side of LR - LR is much more than that. It is a DAM - and there isn't a tool available that can come close to it's usefulness in this regard. It's also a gateway to collaboration/presentation tools via the cloud services, be it LR mobile or the great web interface that runs in any half way decent browser to the equally useful presentation mode that allows to share a set of images quickly to get customer (group) feedback.

I also don't get why people are spreading so much FUD about "losing their images". It was from day one that Adobe said that your images wouldn't be put anywhere you didn't like, don't like the great advantages the cloud gives you, don't use it, nobody forces you (not from Adobe at least, your customers may be another matter). It was stated a long time ago that all functions in LR would stay available when you decide to take up smoking again - except the ability to change edits. You can still print and export previous results.

So why do you (@OP) shun the subscription model, is your time so cheap that to avoid $10/month is worth spending hours and hours on end to make a sub par, cobbled together solution work for you?



Sep 19, 2017 at 08:07 AM
butchM
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


charlyw wrote:
I don't get where the hate for the subscription model comes from.



So far, as nearly as I can tell ... the only folks who have used the term 'hate' in this thread are the ones who are defending the subscription model and labeling their fellow forum members in a negative fashion. I don't see where anyone who is not in favor of the policy is promoting hatred to any person, company or software. All I have seen in this thread is an open discussion about alternatives and deeper detail of how the CC licensing actually works.

Such words (i.e. hate) should be carefully offered. They are simply overused of late. Often in an attempt to stifle open discussion.

So why do you (@OP) shun the subscription model, is your time so cheap that to avoid $10/month is worth spending hours and hours on end to make a sub par, cobbled together solution work for you?

Making a subjective buying decision based upon differences in the licensing agreement is not quite a 'shun' of a product.

For some folks, the price tag isn't the most important part of the equation. While most anyone could afford $10 a month, not everyone feels the purchase would necessarily meet expectations. In the past, Adobe was quite successful working purely on the merit system. They developed great products that offered increased value. Now they are asking we invest ad infinitum based solely upon blind faith. Not everyone is that trusting. Looking back on the track record for Lr CC 2015 over the past 2.5+ years, I can't say as I blame them.

As I wrote back on page 1 of this thread: (Keep in mind I have perpetual licenses for Ps from v2.0 thru PSCS6 and Lightroom v1-v6 and an active CC Photography Package subscription.)

butchM wrote:
I have no problem paying a fair and reasonable price for my tools (just ask B&H) ... but ... even though the monthly fee is quite low, it's not much of a bargain if Adobe is no longer pushing the envelope to take their offerings to the next level.







Sep 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM
ejmcceney
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


The Lightroom Perpetual License is gone as of Lightroom 6.
You can get Lightroom Classic but you will still pay $10/month.

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/19/adobe-said-offer-standalone-lightroom-indefinitely/

Considering that the initial LR packages were $150 and upgrades were $80 with an upgrade coming out an average of every 1.5 years, you spent $470 for six years ($150 + $80 (year 1.5) + $80 (Year 3) + $80 (year 4.5) + $80 (year 6)), assuming you wanted the upgrade every time.

Under the Adobe CC (cash cow) Lightroom, you will spend $720 for 6 years.

And after those 6 years, you really own nothing.




Oct 28, 2017 at 06:33 PM
charlyw
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


ejmcceney wrote:
Considering that the initial LR packages were $150 and upgrades were $80 with an upgrade coming out an average of every 1.5 years, you spent $470 for six years ($150 + $80 (year 1.5) + $80 (Year 3) + $80 (year 4.5) + $80 (year 6)), assuming you wanted the upgrade every time.

Under the Adobe CC (cash cow) Lightroom, you will spend $720 for 6 years.


And how much would you have paid for Photoshop in that time? And how much would have a cloud storage and the mobile apps cost to acces that storage so that you can use that mobile app to present and edit your images whie those eduts feed back into your library? Sorry, just tallying up the Lightroom cost isn‘t correct by a wide margin! Not even remotely!



Oct 28, 2017 at 07:45 PM
Chris Dees
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


charlyw wrote:
And how much would you have paid for Photoshop in that time? And how much would have a cloud storage and the mobile apps cost to acces that storage so that you can use that mobile app to present and edit your images whie those eduts feed back into your library? Sorry, just tallying up the Lightroom cost isn‘t correct by a wide margin! Not even remotely!


What if I don't care for all those things (wanted to use other words )?
I'm ONLY interested in LR.



Oct 29, 2017 at 03:39 AM
tonyespofoto
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


I would like to point out that while a program is in its infancy, there is a lot of space for large improvements in features, speed, ease of use, etc, etc. Once a program reaches a certain level of maturity (which Photoshop did quite some time ago), there are no great leaps to be made. They have all already been made. So, even at $10.00/month, its not such a bargain anymore. OTOH, as a professional with a lot of work to do, can you really afford the time to take on a giant? Not to mention the fact that any substitute software is just another Adobe in the making. Yes, we all yearn for the old days of Photoshop 2 or 3, when we were a small community, all in it together, on the frontier of digital imaging, but those days are past. We are where we are, like it or not. Look at the bright side - we will soon pass the unimaginable (15 years ago) barrier of 100 Megapixels in a device no larger than a 35mm film camera that costs no more than a Hasselblad of yesteryear, yet exceeds its imaging potential by several orders of magnitude. You can bemoan the politics all you like, but the unalterable fact is that we are in a golden age of imaging.


Oct 30, 2017 at 08:59 AM
charlyw
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


tonyespofoto wrote:
I would like to point out that while a program is in its infancy, there is a lot of space for large improvements in features, speed, ease of use, etc, etc. Once a program reaches a certain level of maturity (which Photoshop did quite some time ago), there are no great leaps to be made. They have all already been made. So, even at $10.00/month, its not such a bargain anymore. OTOH, as a professional with a lot of work to do, can you really afford the time to take on a giant? Not to mention the fact that any
...Show more

I agree with all of your arguments except for the "So, even at $10.00/month, its not such a bargain anymore". Why? Because take it as a service charge, what does $10 in service charge give you in any field? Not much - and how much does one hour of your own services cost? How much value your own time if it's for hobby? Does that $10 still sound so much like a bad deal? Maybe in a third world country where $10 is half a months wages this is different but in industrialized countries this isn't the case.



Oct 30, 2017 at 09:58 AM
tonyespofoto
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


I think that for most people, its not the $10/month cost they object to. As has been mentioned, $10/month is a pittance and is no more than the periodic cost of upgrade under the old system. It is the principle they object to. In the CD days, you bought a piece of software, it was yours to do with as you pleased for as long as you liked. In the new model, you are renting an ever-changing version of the software. You no sooner jump through the hoops of getting it running properly on your own particular platform and it changes again. For me personally, my objections are strong, but I have other things to do with my time than take on a software giant. I pay the $10/month, swallow my objections and go on making photographs.


Nov 01, 2017 at 08:19 AM
chez
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom



tonyespofoto wrote:
I think that for most people, its not the $10/month cost they object to. As has been mentioned, $10/month is a pittance and is no more than the periodic cost of upgrade under the old system. It is the principle they object to. In the CD days, you bought a piece of software, it was yours to do with as you pleased for as long as you liked. In the new model, you are renting an ever-changing version of the software. You no sooner jump through the hoops of getting it running properly on your own particular platform and it
...Show more

I got a huge stack of old CD’s that i’ve accumulated over the past years which are totally useless and cannot be used, including PS which cost me an arm & leg at the time. So your statement that you can used them as long as you like is really only partly true...technology quickly obsoletes things...even if you still can hold them in your hands...they become useless.



Nov 01, 2017 at 09:36 AM
butchM
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Good Alternatives To PhotoShop/Lightroom


chez wrote:
I got a huge stack of old CD’s that i’ve accumulated over the past years which are totally useless and cannot be used, including PS which cost me an arm & leg at the time. So your statement that you can used them as long as you like is really only partly true...technology quickly obsoletes things...even if you still can hold them in your hands...they become useless.



The difference being that it is the end user who determines at what point their purchased software license becomes 'useless' ... not the developer.



Nov 01, 2017 at 12:38 PM
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