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Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?
  
 
charlyw
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Mashuto wrote:
I would take it every time over the need to bracket.


You would rather shoot the midtones of your shot at ISO 1600 with a 8-32 fold decrease in tonal distinction because of the processing needed to make use of the DR - if any manufacturer thinks this would be a viable technique they would offer a setting that shifts exposure and includes processing accordingly so that you could see it on the camera display. The fact that not even Sony with their screwed up priorities (lossy raw file compression, drop downto 12 bit A/D conversion in many shooting modes, stareater pushed in an update to increase image quality) do so...



Aug 08, 2017 at 05:39 AM
Isaacheus
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Jimi3 wrote:
I haven't run my camera off a pack, so I can't make specific recommendations. But I believe there are two options - you can use a USB battery pack through the USB port, or you can get something that connects with a dummy battery if the USB connection is otherwise occupied. Here are some options :
http://briansmith.com/external-battery-sony-a7-a7r-a7s-ii/


I've gotten into timelapse recently so the usb slot will be running the syrp genie controller. The dummy battery looks like a potential solution though.

The petition on one of the sony forums was what brought the lack of resolution of the star eater issue to my attention, I had thought it was resolved (at least for exposures under 30 seconds), so looking to see if there is any response to that

In regards to the midtones acting more like iso 1600 when pushed on the sony sensors, this is far more appealing than the mush that my current 6d turns into when I try more than 2 stop pushes, which often happens in situations where I can't bracket due to movement etc (the timelapses I do are a good example). Working alongside my friend with a nikon d750 has shown just how many situations being able to do this, if needed, can help in.

It's not that I wouldn't blend in situations where I have time, or things aren't moving, but its all the times I haven't been able to recover a shot/haven't even bothered, all because trying to push the corners more than the just the lens corrections has caused more noise than I'd like



Aug 08, 2017 at 07:03 AM
AlexDROP
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


dhachey wrote:
I faced the same dilemma not long ago. I went with the Sony A7R2 with a Metabones V5 adapter. The Sony 42 MP sensor is probably the best out there. I use my Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS for landscapes, and kept the Canon gear for wildlife and nature work.


Sony A7R2 and Metabones V5 reach to 5D4 price tag easily.
If photography is a hobby and you don't sell really large prints, 5D4 is a nice all-round option that is also great for landscapes. If landscapes earn you money, than purchase landscape set up of Sony or Nikon gear for this specific purpose.



Aug 08, 2017 at 07:13 AM
Isaacheus
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


AlexDROP wrote:
Sony A7R2 and Metabones V5 reach to 5D4 price tag easily.
If photography is a hobby and you don't sell really large prints, 5D4 is a nice all-round option that is also great for landscapes. If landscapes earn you money, than purchase landscape set up of Sony or Nikon gear for this specific purpose.


Yep, where I am, the a7r2 and sigma mc-11 get to within $500 of the 5dmk4. It's just a hobby for me, but I figure if I'm going to spend the amount I think I am, I may as well research all the options as best I can. It's really the lack of tilt screen, and the fact the canon has the lowest resolution in the class that makes me hesitate on it.




Aug 08, 2017 at 07:25 AM
charlyw
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Isaacheus wrote:
and the fact the canon has the lowest resolution in the class that makes me hesitate on it.


You could go for the DP-RAW feature of the 5D IV which basically allows quite a bit of trickery because it's a bit of a stereoscopic view of your scene - and it would mean sort of double the nominal resolution that you get to work with in DPP...




Aug 08, 2017 at 08:19 AM
justruss
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Isaacheus wrote:
Yep, where I am, the a7r2 and sigma mc-11 get to within $500 of the 5dmk4. It's just a hobby for me, but I figure if I'm going to spend the amount I think I am, I may as well research all the options as best I can. It's really the lack of tilt screen, and the fact the canon has the lowest resolution in the class that makes me hesitate on it.



That's unfortunate! In the US you can find the A7rII as low as $2100 grey, and below that on the used market. Prices are similar, but in Euros, in much of the EU.

I made a similar switch, from 5D2 to A7rII, shooting them side-by-side for a while. No contest for me: It was the best camera change I've made to date. If landscapes are of interest, DR and resolution go a long way-- helping you print big, crop, or take advantage of down-res advantages at smaller size display. The smaller body and IBIS are a bonus. The worse battery life is offset by the small battery size and ability to use just about any external USB battery packs to charge or shoot from.

You may not want to shoot converted lenses for long, however. It works, and well at times, but it adds some ergonomic bulk/discontinuity, weight, and a layer of abstraction.

























I'm thrilled (stitched panos)
















Aug 08, 2017 at 10:53 AM
dgdg
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


I still have an A7r v1 along with my Canon gear. It was a good deal used and even better deal now.
The A7r v1 is a great walkabout family camera with the kit mid range zoom.
I carry an adapter for my Canon lenses. With wide angle lenses the A7r v1 detail is pretty mind blowing, especially when I used my former 5D3 for comparison. Shutter shock does occur with certain shutter speeds and longer (non wide) focal lengths if supported by the adapter plate. That said, even my 5D4 has 'shutter shock' if I take images at 600mm and 1/4 sec, but I can use mirror lock up which the A7r v1 does not have. The relatively aggressive A7r v1 in camera noise handling (aka star eater) is a real phenomena but for wide field starscapes it still performs quite well. If you primarily do starscapes or use telephoto focal lengths, well, then I would not get it.
The Canon 5D4 does not provide nearly as many shots as earlier models. Live view eats it up even faster. Where before I didn't think twice about a second battery, now I do. Not a big deal, batteries don't take up much space in my pocket.
Every camera has limitations and cost considerations. You just need to decide how it affects you, if at all.
The A7r v1 has produced some fine landscapes and family images for me.

David

There are a lot of samples showing the 'star eater' effect. But it is good to also take a step back from 100% view and see it still captures nice detail.










Aug 08, 2017 at 12:49 PM
drewmey
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


I know selling everything you have can sound really annoying...but let's be honest. Considering what your interests and concerns are, Canon is just not doing it for you right now. That is no bash to Canon, the tools they offer just don't line up well with what you need.

Since the new D850 has been somewhat "announced", the D810 prices are only going to continue to fall. You can already get a used D810 for $2k or less. That is $1.4k cheaper than the new 5DIV you are considering. That extra $1.4k should more than cover cost of selling/buying lenses for a new system if you are ok with buying used bodies and lenses. And realistically, the D810 is probably a better landscape camera for most people than the 6D, 6D II or even the 5DIV.

If you are comfortable buying used and selling your gear, you could probably come out ahead over keeping your 6D and buying a 5DIV but you would obviously only have one body. But importantly one body that is supposedly a killer landscape tool. What you have described doesn't sound like a desire to go mirrorless (smaller, manual focus tools, what you see is what you get, etc.), it sounds like the desire to have a better sensor on a DSLR body.



Aug 08, 2017 at 01:12 PM
Mashuto
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


charlyw wrote:
You would rather shoot the midtones of your shot at ISO 1600 with a 8-32 fold decrease in tonal distinction because of the processing needed to make use of the DR - if any manufacturer thinks this would be a viable technique they would offer a setting that shifts exposure and includes processing accordingly so that you could see it on the camera display. The fact that not even Sony with their screwed up priorities (lossy raw file compression, drop downto 12 bit A/D conversion in many shooting modes, stareater pushed in an update to increase image quality) do so...


What are you even talking about? Im guessing its some kind of Sony bashing?

I have seen your posts and they have all been so ridiculously pro-canon, anti-sony, and super dismissive of people who want certain things that canon has been either slow to add, or not add at all. Why is it so hard for you to accept that even though DR isn't always that important, its important for some? Why are you so threatened that for some people, Sony might be a better choice?

Do you work for Canon?



Aug 08, 2017 at 01:49 PM
justruss
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Mashuto wrote:
What are you even talking about? Im guessing its some kind of Sony bashing?

I have seen your posts and they have all been so ridiculously pro-canon, anti-sony, and super dismissive of people who want certain things that canon has been either slow to add, or not add at all. Why is it so hard for you to accept that even though DR isn't always that important, its important for some? Why are you so threatened that for some people, Sony might be a better choice?

Do you work for Canon?


Best not get too worked up over it-- as he seems to be one of the few here able to snarl through written text. I don't really get it either.

The truth is that Canon does some things so incredibly well-- which is why it's the platform of choice for so many amateurs and pros alike. Sony also does some things incredibly well (and the trend is increasing), but not everything. (Nikon does too, as do Fuji and others...)

Luckily we live in societies where we can mostly choose how to spend our money-- including which brands and platforms we want to use when it comes to photography. There are costs to switching too often (or at all), and there are (photographic opportunity) costs to remaining static in the face of a better personal solution. That's up to us all to balance.

I tend to think that for the OP's situation, Canon is the path of least resistance-- but may not offer enough to compel the OP to upgrade. That said, I think the 5D4 is pretty solid as far as DR increase, and the 5Ds(r) is a MAJOR resolution upgrade (that comes along with some great non-resolution IQ improvements... not necessarily for astro though).

The Sony A7r(2) offers the best all-around package right now, with the option of buying a used AF adaptor and dipping the toes into the system before actually going full-native. The A7r does this at low cost-- OP can keep the 6D. The A7rII is more of a full-replacement, and priced optimally on the used/grey market. Star-eater is something of a problem, but for most people who do "astro" it really won't matter.



Aug 08, 2017 at 02:26 PM
 

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Mashuto
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


justruss wrote:
Best not get too worked up over it-- as he seems to be one of the few here able to snarl through written text. I don't really get it either.

The truth is that Canon does some things so incredibly well-- which is why it's the platform of choice for so many amateurs and pros alike. Sony also does some things incredibly well (and the trend is increasing), but not everything. (Nikon does too, as do Fuji and others...)

Luckily we live in societies where we can mostly choose how to spend our money-- including which brands and platforms we want
...Show more

True, I try not to get worked up, and I didn't mean to come off that way, just that I don't understand why some people seem to care so much about what gear other people use. Some sort of post purchase rationalization? I personally don't need to convince myself that other brands are terrible to get the most from my gear.

Though I find myself in a very similar situation to OP in that I have been shooting with my 6D for four and a half years and there are certain things that would be nice to get upgraded. But considering this is just a hobby and nobody else cares about my images or will ever notice these small details we are discussing here, its just not worth it for me to spend a ton of extra money. The 6D2 for me is still probably the best choice since it will offer some genuine improvements in ergonomics and useability without completely breaking the bank. But with essentially no improvement in IQ (for what I usually shoot)... its just disappointing and doesn't quite seem worth it.

So for now, it just looks like I should continue shooting with the 6D. It hasnt suddenly become terrible and we all know gear is not nearly as important as the person using it. But it would still be nice to think there is a viable upgrade path for me that wont involve waiting 10 years or having to spend significantly more. So, I will keep my hopes up (and my expectations at 0) that canon will decide in a year or two to release a 6DIIs(r), with the same feature set as the 6DII, but a 40MP sensor with the same DR improvements as the 5D4. Oh, and it will be priced right between the 6D2 and 5D4. It will definitely not happen, but I can dream.



Aug 08, 2017 at 02:50 PM
justruss
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Mashuto wrote:
True, I try not to get worked up, and I didn't mean to come off that way, just that I don't understand why some people seem to care so much about what gear other people use. Some sort of post purchase rationalization? I personally don't need to convince myself that other brands are terrible to get the most from my gear.

Though I find myself in a very similar situation to OP in that I have been shooting with my 6D for four and a half years and there are certain things that would be nice to get upgraded. But considering
...Show more

You never know! Cross your fingers.

I can totally empathize with your situation. It's the same one I experienced with my 5D2 in late 2015. And the truth is, if I wasn't doing this for money-- and hadn't had a big project that covered it-- I wouldn't have jumped on an A7rII quite so soon and at such prices.

I also don't care about brand allegiance. As a Canon shooter I ribbed my friends who shot Nikon, as they did me. But we both knew that neither system was truly better. As a Sony shooter these days, I still love seeing the output of my buddies who shoot with 85Ls and 5D4s, and my buddy who produces great stuff with a D750 and a 50mm.



Aug 08, 2017 at 05:04 PM
Isaacheus
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Thanks for all the replies, and that photo is great dgdg

At this point, it looks my best option is to wait for the d850 from Nikon and maybe the a73 from Sony while slowly saving for which ever comes out best for what I want (hoping that sony get the stars under control - the wide shots look pretty good anyway though, less of an issue than I thought it might be)

I've just seen anther review on the 6dmk2 with regards to astrophotography, and with those results, it's totally wrong for what I'm wanting. At least that part is nice and clear, with an extra polishing now



Aug 10, 2017 at 11:57 AM
ericrdreier
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


The 12-24 is supposed to be magical

AlexDROP wrote:
Nikon option of 16-35 is not very positively reviewed. It is more weak on the wide end than Canon as I may judge on samples over internet. Check samples on DPR taken with D810 (and 16-35) in Iceland and review of the lens on slrclub.com
Nikon 18-35/3,5-4,5 is praised more than 16-35 considering price factor.




Sep 28, 2017 at 06:21 AM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


The images over on the nikon forum with the D850 look amazing.

I've picked up both an a7r2 and 5d4 this month and plan on selling my 6d.

The 6d2 whilst an ok camera imo for landscape and astro (iq) is only as step back, a small step for sure but not an improvement.

The 5d4 is better for astro. Its a pretty amazing all round camera really.



Sep 28, 2017 at 06:42 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Full articulating screen options include:
6D2
A99 II

Parial articulating screen options include:
K-1

Tilt only screen options include multiple:
Sony
Nikon

For dedicated max DR for landscape camera, the Pentax K-1 has merit that often gets overlooked. Best I know, it has the most ISO invariant sensor out there, and they skip out on the AA filter totally, without "pre-cooking" files like Sony, either. How the K mount glass fares for astro ... idk, but there is the additional astro mode that the K-1 has in concert with it's pixel shift functionality.

Obviously the Nikon & Pentax options require a different consideration regarding glass in the F / K mounts. Whereas Sony offers the adapter route for EF glass. (SLT requires A mount glass).

I'm with others that Canon's offerings aren't as strong in that regard on a pure, extreme DR play, just not their gig (no need to re-hash), philosophically they seem to target a different agenda.

If I was looking to go that route ... the Pentax K-1 tugs at me (I haven't looked at the 850 yet), but a typically "safe bet" is probably going with one of the Sony E mounts with adapters (ergonomics notwithstanding for tripod work) and Canon's glass. Otherwise, you have to consider your new glass requirements in Nikon or Pentax.




Sep 28, 2017 at 09:28 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


Isaacheus, have you considered just adding a new APS-C to your collection for the DR and flip screen capability you want, along with DPAF for anything else you do? It would be inexpensive to do so, and there are some nice lenses that work for WA work on a crop body.

For example at ISO 100, the SL2 has almost a FULL STOP more DR than the 6D2 and slightly less than 1 stop from the 6D, sitting right in the middle of the gap between the 6D and 5D4. If you want a larger body, the 80D then, and there are some sales right now on the 80D.

This allows you to watch the dust settle from the Nikon side, and then see what Canon is going to offer as a rebuttal this year if anything. There are many documented threads on how well people have acclimated to the 80D for landscapes and its improved DR over the 6D and 6D2 and the SL2 has the same sensor. Couple both your 6D and an APS-C with the newest Sigma 12-24 ART series, and you should have stellar results. For the price of the 6D2, you can get the SL2 and Sigma, for example. The only real downside to the SL2 is its antiquated AF system.



Sep 28, 2017 at 12:50 PM
mikeinctown
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


I'm still here trying to figure out how I've seen two comments now on how switching from a Canon 5D2 to a Sony yielded amazing results. Well yeah the 5D2 is like 10 years old. My 2017 Hyundai is also far more amazing than a 2000 Buick even though it likely cost less than the Buick did 17 years back.

For me switching brands would depend on how many lenses I currently owned. If I had only one or two and could recoup money or make an almost even trade then I would jump ship, but if I had a half dozen lenses then I might save my pennies for another 6 months or so.



Sep 28, 2017 at 01:08 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


mikeinctown wrote:
I'm still here trying to figure out how I've seen two comments now on how switching from a Canon 5D2 to a Sony yielded amazing results. Well yeah the 5D2 is like 10 years old


And on the whole canon sensors are still stuck in the past.

A 5d4 has comparable performance ( or close enough).

The 6D improved things a little, at no gain in resolution, but unless you have 5d4 money or never shoot large dynamic range scenes the sony is a great option.




Sep 28, 2017 at 07:49 PM
AlexDROP
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Landscape upgrade options from the 6d?


I almost forgot I gave an opinion in this thread and was surprised to find it refreshed with newer posts.
The funny side of the dilemma of Isaacheus is that I'm facing the same atm. For two months since 6DII announcement I've been reading reviews of cameras and lenses, downloading raw files from various cameras to evaluate alt systems and upgrading paths.

Here are my findings from a travel photographer's point if somebody is interested (architecture, landscapes, long exposures, nightscapes, a bit of reportage):

1) Nikon: D750, 810 and new 850 are great, no doubt. 16-35 in F mount has two shortcomings: weaker corners at 16 mm and weaker flare resistance compared to Canon pier. 70-200/4 and 50 prime are better than Canons. 24-105 and 24-120 are equal. Pros: DR, built-in flash (excl. 850), 3D-tracking. Cons: weak LV shooting, 1 value AFMA for zooms, "wrong" ergonomics and menu, a bit heavier.

2) Sony E: 7RII, 7II. Pros: DR, lightweight bodies, EVF, cheap manual lenses. Cons: adapters, many spare batteries, pricy native lenses (16-35 and 70-200/4), weird ergonomics and menu, oddly malleable raws with some caveats (stareater, weird noise pattern in recovered shadows).

3) Fuji X: X-T2 or X-E3. Pros: DR at lesser extent than N&S, lightweight bodies and lenses, EVF, quality yet affordable lenses. Fuji X system is great for 2 bodies light travel set-up to change lenses less and be prepared for any FOV shot. Cons: weird noise pattern in recovered shadows, many spare batteries, ISO 200 (for LE shots), Iridient DNG plug-in (works great but costs extra).

4) Canon: 5D4. Pros: native ergonomics, menu, lenses, quite-enough DR, AWB-W, DPAF, weather resistance. Cons: pricy.

I have got a 6D and 3 lenses in EF mount: 16-35/4 L, Sigma 35 Art and ZE 100/2 MP. It is not a great number but it's not a one lens either. Def I could sell all my Canon staff easily If I'd want. My personal decision is to wait for Canon reaction for some months (incl. price drops info on 5D4) and evaluate X-E3 raw IQ. Meanwhile I'm editing my vacation series from Nesebar, Dresden and Berlin, I must admit DR of even 6D is fair enough for my style of shooting and my post-processing technique (!)



Sep 28, 2017 at 09:01 PM
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