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Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6
  
 
DavidBM
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


bjornthun wrote:
What makes the Contax 100-300 especially prone to developing haze in the rear group?


This is just guesses based on other lenses and what we have heard here.
The haze we are told is in the cement used to glue the rear, cemented group.

So the question is, why do some go hazy and not others?

Possibilities

(1) they all will with time, and it's the oldest ones that have
(2) the glue was faulty (short lived) in some batches
(3) they all will if in the right (wrong) environments (temperature or humidity?)



Aug 17, 2017 at 02:42 AM
philip_pj
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


David, who really knows? CZ may be candid if asked, but people choose for themselves. Cement tech was not new in 1996. Might be a case of internet hyperama too. Few pipe up with positive messages, most enjoy a good complaint session. Mine is producing glorious images, come what may. It sat in David Llado's workshop for a year, awaiting a full A mount conversion. Not sure of batch/age variation, CZ production data indicate just one batch, from memory. One of the last CY lenses, 1996. Too many people knock lenses around, I believe. Store incorrectly, knocks, drops, rough handle, etc. It's always the lens's fault, even after 20 years of (ab)use.


Aug 17, 2017 at 11:16 AM
DavidBM
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


philip_pj wrote:
David, who really knows? CZ may be candid if asked, but people choose for themselves. Cement tech was not new in 1996. Might be a case of internet hyperama too. Few pipe up with positive messages, most enjoy a good complaint session. Mine is producing glorious images, come what may. It sat in David Llado's workshop for a year, awaiting a full A mount conversion. Not sure of batch/age variation, CZ production data indicate just one batch, from memory. One of the last CY lenses, 1996. Too many people knock lenses around, I believe. Store incorrectly, knocks, drops, rough handle,
...Show more

Maybe it's hype but whether people report when they look for copies of this it matches my experience over the years too: you search eBay, and most the cheaper ones report haze on rear element. No other fault crops up even a tenth as often. So in every other respect it has stood up well to all those knocks, drops, poor storage etc (and re storage, fungus comes up much less often)

This is not a complaint; the lens in most respects seems to have lasted well, especially given the complexity.
And I have no evidence that if you get a good one it'll go hazy (though that might weigh on my mind a bit if I got one)

But it does seem that there is something about that glued element. Of course cement tech was not new; but people are always trying different cement formulations so it's perfectly possible the cement on those elements responds to certain poor storage practices by hazing over after many years.



Aug 17, 2017 at 11:49 AM
bjornthun
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


DavidBM wrote:
Maybe it's hype but whether people report when they look for copies of this it matches my experience over the years too: you search eBay, and most the cheaper ones report haze on rear element. No other fault crops up even a tenth as often. So in every other respect it has stood up well to all those knocks, drops, poor storage etc (and re storage, fungus comes up much less often)

This is not a complaint; the lens in most respects seems to have lasted well, especially given the complexity.
And I have no evidence that if you get a good
...Show more

The haze issue weighted on my mind at least. I have ordered a Contax/Zeiss 80-200/4 instead. That gives me a Zeiss telezoom and I can afford to keep my Sony 70-200/4 alongside it. In order to get a haze free Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6, it seems one has to search for a long time and pay a quite high price. The latter scares me a bit, since it will be difficult, if at all possible to get the Contax 100-300 serviced.

A bit OT: While I was at it, I also ordered a Contax/Zeiss 100/2.8 Makro Planar, which should do while we wait and see, if there will be a Loxia or Batis Makro Planar. I did not get the ZF/ZE 100/2 MP, since that one suffers from LoCA, which I expect will be the case also for the Contax 100/2.8 MP. Also this allows me to stick to one adapter only, the Novoflex Contax/Nex adapter. Again, I keep my Sony 90/2.8 G macro, which is well corrected in the LoCA department. Now I'm getting to have a rather nice Zeiss setup, when combined with my other Zeiss lenses, while keeping my nice Sony G lenses.



Aug 17, 2017 at 01:34 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


This is the first time I heard of systematic haze issues. I think I got lucky. Got mine here at the buy and sell board an it's haze and dust free.
That's good info for those shopping for a copy.



Aug 17, 2017 at 02:31 PM
DavidBM
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Fred Miranda wrote:
This is the first time I heard of systematic haze issues. I think I got lucky. Got mine here at the buy and sell board an it's haze and dust free.
That's good info for those shopping for a copy.


It's not that haze free copies are all that rare; and the more reputable Japanese sellers will disclose.
But the boy and sell board would be a good safe place to ge one....



Aug 17, 2017 at 09:00 PM
kaioyang
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Thanks for the haze information. Just checked my copy (I got it from a Japanese ebay seller) and happy to say there is no haze ;-)
More reasons not to get the 100-400.



Aug 17, 2017 at 09:35 PM
 

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PEKA62
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I have researched a little deeper what causes this haze problem on some lenses and not on others.
I have a contact with a former Kyocera employee, he was working at Kyocera for 25 years before his retirement, and he obviously has deep knowledge about the production of those lenses made in the early nineties.
He also is the seller of this lens sold in Germany last week, that was serviced @ ZEISS before he offered it, read 1 or 2 pages back...
That's what I've learned:
ZEISS was using up to 30 (!) different glass formulas for their lens element production those time, and the glass blanks came from Schott and Hoya. They were experimenting with different glass ingredients to get special characteristics of the lenses made with different sorts of glass. Especially refractive index and dispersion were different. The lens elements that were delivered for the lens production were not constantly the same. Due to different refractive indexes of the glass used, they had to use different types of glue for putting the lenses together. Obviously this is the reason why some are hazy and others are not.



Aug 17, 2017 at 10:01 PM
Jannik Peters
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Guys, you are really giving me a headache.. My CY 100-300 looks great but it is also in mint condition so it has probably not seen that much light and wear.. I have to put that risk into my equation, maybe I'll change it for the 100-400 when the price comes down and before the 100-300 gets the haze.


Aug 18, 2017 at 06:16 AM
KlausJH
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Oh, you too, damn; who got it? Confess now...
...
Samuli


OK, I confess, I bought it. I'm glad I did and I'm glad I was the only bidder.
Looking for some time now, the offers from (mostly) Japan had either haze and/or fungus. Although, the price looks rather steep compared to all others in ebay, this one was in a great condition as promised and expected. It came directly from Zeiss in Oberkochen. When traveling, it will replace my Minolta AF 300mm F4 Apo and the FE 70-200 F4 in many cases.
The first pictures look promising. However, the Contax to E-mount adapter needs some improvements, it's too shiny inside. The Techart Pro adapter works when the lens gets some support and there is not too much load on the mount of the adapter. But I found it much easier to focus manually with focus peaking.
The pictures were taken wide open at around 250 to 280 mm freehand.
Klaus





















Aug 18, 2017 at 08:59 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


KlausJH wrote:
OK, I confess, I bought it. I'm glad I did and I'm glad I was the only bidder.

Klaus, congrats for the lens.

KlausJH wrote:
The first pictures look promising. However, the Contax to E-mount adapter needs some improvements, it's too shiny inside.

In 2013 when A7 was new we had lots of discussions about this. I posted my finding to this page (link is to one post, but if you scroll down there is other post describing "masking method" which is very effective):
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247655/184#12244659
Also there was this thread:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1287740

Masking takes quite a lot of time (I do them iteratively; add material, test, add material test...), and adapters will become lens specific, and they may cause weirdly cut boke highlights in corners/edges. Generally I'm too lazy for that, so later in 2014 I got hint of this product from carstenw:
www.micro-tools.de/en/Camera-Restauration/Light-Baffle.html
Since then I have applied this material to all new adapters I have got. I does improve adapter flaring issues a little, but does not solve other Sony specific issues - masking definitely is more efficient. I have not found negative aspects using this light baffle material (some people were worried of "felt" in material ending up to sensor, but this light baffle is designed to use inside cameras and optical devices, and material doesn't seem to cause any "dust like" stuff appearing to sensor more than usual).

KlausJH wrote:
The pictures were taken wide open at around 250 to 280 mm freehand.

I know nothing of bird photography, but these looks damn nice.

Samuli

EDIT: Forgot to mention; most of my eBay adapters leak light. When I attach lens to adapter I always put black tape around the "seam" between adapter and lens. Depending how "lens release" is done, that may require additional tape as well.



Aug 18, 2017 at 09:47 AM
KlausJH
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Samuli, thanks for the links and info.
In the past I used velcro to cover the critical parts. The baffle seems to be a good product, I think I'll try that.
It's not only the light leaks, the reflections inside the adapter cause problems and reduce the contrast.

Klaus



Aug 18, 2017 at 10:41 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


KlausJH wrote:
Samuli, thanks for the links and info.
In the past I used velcro to cover the critical parts. The baffle seems to be a good product, I think I'll try that.
It's not only the light leaks, the reflections inside the adapter cause problems and reduce the contrast.

Yes it's mainly reflections AND light reflected from "mirror chamber" of A7.

Light leaks rarely visible, but can be when shooting in shadow with small aperture(or with ND filter) and direct sunshine hits camera etc. situations. Just mentioned them in case your adapter does leak some light. Majority of eBay adapers will leak - majority of users never see it, but try to shoot with NDX1000 filter f/16 & 30s to smooth water in full sunlight...

Samuli




Aug 18, 2017 at 10:46 AM
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