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Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6
  
 
RemcoR
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


This Contax 100-300 has become my fata morgana lens. I've wanted one for years, but having a Pentax camera, there is no current (Leitax) solution for it. Would love one on the K-1. Damn!
RemcoR

Edited on Aug 24, 2017 at 11:18 PM · View previous versions



Aug 24, 2017 at 05:56 PM
waterden
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Very interesting topic. I am in the process of moving from Sony A7R2 to Leica SL and suspect many old SLR lenses like Contax will fare better on the Leica body. Interestingly, Novoflex, whose products I admire greatly, seems to have gone banco on adapters for the SL so have presumably had some sort of assurance from Leica on long term plans for this platform.

Edited on Aug 25, 2017 at 07:22 AM · View previous versions



Aug 24, 2017 at 06:33 PM
bjornthun
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


waterden wrote:
Very interesting topic. I am in the process of moving from Sony A7R2 to Leica SL and suspect many old SLR lenses will fare better on the Leica platform. Interestingly, Novoflex, whose products I admire greatly, seems to have gone banco on adapters for the SL so have presumably had some sort of assurance from Leica on long term plans for this platform. More pertinent to this thread, I am quite interested in 180-200mm options for this camera. Probably, I should initiate another topic but it seems to segue from this one. I am planning to use an old Minolta
...Show more

Just one non-tele lens question, if I may, is the Leica SL sensor with filter pack suited for the M wide angles? Any degradation compared to the digital M rangefinders?



Aug 24, 2017 at 06:39 PM
waterden
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I've only just got mine so not yet competent to answer. However, given Leica's evident commitment to the SL I should be amazed if it is not the best non-Leica M platform for M-lenses of any focal length and the best for R-lenses. There will have been a lot of thought and research behind this camera.

However, some good examples here with the SL and VM15/4.5 v3

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/56504-fun-leica-sl-digital-21.html



Aug 24, 2017 at 07:47 PM
KlausJH
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


RemcoR wrote:
This Contax 100-300 has become my fata morgana lens. I've wanted one for years, but having a Pentax camera, there is no current (Leitax) solution for it. Would love one on the K-1. Damn!
RemcoR


Why don't you buy a C/Y to Pentax K mount adapter instead? Those are available for little money. It is probably more difficult to find a good copy of the 100-300.
Klaus



Aug 25, 2017 at 06:32 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6




waterden wrote:
I've only just got mine so not yet competent to answer. However, given Leica's evident commitment to the SL I should be amazed if it is not the best non-Leica M platform for M-lenses of any focal length and the best for R-lenses. There will have been a lot of thought and research behind this camera.

However, some good examples here with the SL and VM15/4.5 v3

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/56504-fun-leica-sl-digital-21.html

There were some reports that some of the more problematic lenses (the 4.5/15 III isn't one of them) do perform worse on the SL than on the M. So I don't think your trust in Leica is fully justified.



Aug 25, 2017 at 07:21 AM
waterden
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I haven't seen anything like that. Could you elaborate as regards which lenses? I would imagine that the SL sensor has been carefully designed to allow most Leica lenses to be used - after all that was an important part of their marketing for the camera - but Zeiss Biogons may well be problematic at the wider end.

Phillip Reeve wrote:
There were some reports that some of the more problematic lenses (the 4.5/15 III isn't one of them) do perform worse on the SL than on the M. So I don't think your trust in Leica is fully justified.




Aug 25, 2017 at 07:28 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Phillip Reeve wrote:
There were some reports that some of the more problematic lenses (the 4.5/15 III isn't one of them) do perform worse on the SL than on the M. So I don't think your trust in Leica is fully justified.


I think Leica has made it reasonably clear that all the currently available as new M lenses work well with the SL. Maybe not as well as they work with the M, but none will have any major issues. That is currently available lenses, however, and older lenses all bets are off and third party lenses as well may not work as well. It seems that Leica even provided some tweaks to the 28 Elmarit ASPH and 28 cron ASPH in new versions partly so that these lenses would work better with the SL. A few lenses may even work better by a little bit with the SL than the M. For example, some report that the 28 Lux ASPH, the 50 f/0.95 Noctilux, and the 75 lux work better with the SL, but some of that maybe ease of focussing theses fast lenses.



Aug 25, 2017 at 12:20 PM
bjornthun
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think Leica has made it reasonably clear that all the currently available as new M lenses work well with the SL. Maybe not as well as they work with the M, but none will have any major issues. That is currently available lenses, however, and older lenses all bets are off and third party lenses as well may not work as well. It seems that Leica even provided some tweaks to the 28 Elmarit ASPH and 28 cron ASPH in new versions partly so that these lenses would work better with the SL. A few lenses may even
...Show more

I think there were three M lenses that recently got a version II upgrade. Among them is the 28/2.8 Elmarit-M. I think the upgrade consists of a tweak similar to what Zeiss did when they made the Loxia 35/2 and 50/2 on basis of the ZM versions. In practice I think they moved the exit pupil further away from the sensor, but that's my speculation only.

We should remember that modern ZM and Loxia Biogons are all mildly retrofocus i.e. non of them are symmetrical. The same is of course true for the Leica M wide angles. The ZM Biogons are in fact even more retrofocus than the older Contax G Biogons. This can be exerpted from the litterature by the late dr. Hubert Nasse of Zeiss.

I still miss the sensibly sized Zeiss ZM and Leica M wide angles.



Aug 25, 2017 at 12:47 PM
RemcoR
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6



KlausJH wrote:
Why don't you buy a C/Y to Pentax K mount adapter instead? Those are available for little money. It is probably more difficult to find a good copy of the 100-300.
Klaus


Hi Klaus,
I could go for an adapter, but it would have to be one with a glass element, but I have seen the negative effects on IQ. Leitax has confirmed to me that a replacement k mount can be done on this lens, but nobody has done it yet apart from one DIY example I saw from someone in China.
http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_702299ab0101jlu5.html

A real shame, as I already have the Contax 35-70/3.4, the 50/1.7 with the Leitax mount and the Zeiss (ZK) 85/1.4.

RemcoR



Aug 25, 2017 at 01:01 PM
 

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KlausJH
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6




Hi Klaus,
I could go for an adapter, but it would have to be one with a glass element, but I have seen the negative effects on IQ. Leitax has confirmed to me that a replacement k mount can be done on this lens, but nobody has done it yet apart from one DIY example I saw from someone in China.
http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_702299ab0101jlu5.html

A real shame, as I already have the Contax 35-70/3.4, the 50/1.7 with the Leitax mount and the Zeiss (ZK) 85/1.4.

RemcoR


You are right, I wouldn't use an adapter with a lens either.
The bayonet of my 35-70 looks a bit different from the 100-300. So it's probably not possible to use a Leitax kit.
Thats a pity.
Klaus



Aug 25, 2017 at 02:48 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


bjornthun wrote:
I think there were three M lenses that recently got a version II upgrade. Among them is the 28/2.8 Elmarit-M. I think the upgrade consists of a tweak similar to what Zeiss did when they made the Loxia 35/2 and 50/2 on basis of the ZM versions. In practice I think they moved the exit pupil further away from the sensor, but that's my speculation only.

We should remember that modern ZM and Loxia Biogons are all mildly retrofocus i.e. non of them are symmetrical. The same is of course true for the Leica M wide angles. The ZM Biogons
...Show more

The three lenses they re-released were the 28 Elmarit ASPH, the 28 cron ASPH, and the 35 cron ASPH. The two 28 lenses were actually new optical tweaks and show clearly different performance on the SL between the two versions, but the 35 cron was according to some was just a change in the barrel design and the hood. I don't think any one knows for sure on that lens, but there is lots of debate about it. From the samples that I have seen, however, it the two versions don't look that much different on either an M camera or an SL. I think this is a lens that does better on an M camera than the SL, but the difference isn't huge.



Aug 25, 2017 at 04:21 PM
RemcoR
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


KlausJH wrote:
You are right, I wouldn't use an adapter with a lens either.
The bayonet of my 35-70 looks a bit different from the 100-300. So it's probably not possible to use a Leitax kit.
Thats a pity.
Klaus


Hi Klaus, a pity indeed. Even more so, because David from Leitax confirmed me he could make such a mount and would look into it. That was about a year ago... It would also apply to the Contax 100 macro and such, so it might be interesting. However I think Leitax is putting more focus on the Zeiss zf to pk mounts now.
RemcoR



Aug 25, 2017 at 10:14 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


BTW: My second 100-400GM copy does much better than the first at 200mm. (The other focal lengths are pretty much identical). I had to replace my first copy due to focus inconsistencies. Both copies were well centered at 200mm but the second is much sharper at mid and edge areas...

It now pretty much matches the resolution of the Contax VS 100-300 @ 200mm.

So, perhaps disregard the below post and consider the mid and edge areas very similar between these two lenses:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1501962/0#14126594



Sep 01, 2017 at 05:35 PM
AGeoJO
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Fred Miranda wrote:
BTW: My second 100-400GM copy does much better than the first at 200mm. (The other focal lengths are pretty much identical). I had to replace my first copy due to focus inconsistencies. Both copies were well centered at 200mm but the second is much sharper at mid and edge areas...

It now pretty much matches the resolution of the Contax VS 100-300 @ 200mm.

So, perhaps disregard the below post and consider the mid and edge areas very similar between these two lenses:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1501962/0#14126594



Since my main interest for this lens is bird photography, and for that I need the longest reach, I never checked that lens at other FLs. I just took for granted that if the lens performs fine at 400mm, the remaining FL range should be more than OK. I should go back and do that while it is still within the return period..... Thanks, Fred!



Sep 01, 2017 at 05:48 PM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I got my 100-300 today from one of our members. I've examined it with a strong LED flashlight through the lens. There is quite a bit of dust and so forth; the element surfaces don't really appear to have bubbles, but I'm thinking that there may be some faint whitish smearing on one of the elements. I really hope it's not haze since I've wanted this lens for a long time.

Which element does the haze appear on? Reading this thread, it sounds like it's the rear most element, but it's not definitely specified. Is it on the outer surface (i.e. the element that makes up the rear of the lens)? The area in question on this copy is farther inside the lens, perhaps 2-3 cm inside. Does anyone know if that can be a problem too? It can't be seen without shining the flashlight through it.

I'm going to take some test shots outdoors with it tomorrow. I did a few preliminary shots inside tonight and it appears to have nice contrast and color, not hazy-looking. Thanks.



Sep 08, 2017 at 04:34 AM
bluloo
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


Ugh. The flashlight test.
I NEVER* do the flashlight test.






*almost



Sep 08, 2017 at 05:12 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
Which element does the haze appear on? Reading this thread, it sounds like it's the rear most element, but it's not definitely specified. Is it on the outer surface (i.e. the element that makes up the rear of the lens)? The area in question on this copy is farther inside the lens, perhaps 2-3 cm inside.

It's the rearmost group of 2 lens elements; the glue between them turns from transparent to "hazy".

The PDF is too low resolution, and it just shows groups not individual lens elements. However the last group is made from two pieces of glass and glue/cement/whatever it should be called holding them together.
https://www.zeissimages.com/mtf/cy/Vario-Sonnar4.5-5.6_100-300mm_e.pdf

Samuli



Sep 08, 2017 at 06:09 AM
DannyBurkPhoto
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I've examined it again today, very carefully, and I'm 99% sure that there is light patchy haze on the rear element. I took a lot of test photos today and they are beautiful - nothing visibly wrong with them - since the haze is apparently just beginning.

If I understand the previous posts correctly, once haze becomes present, it will continue to become worse, correct? If it were to remain the same as it is now, I would keep it - but if it will continue to worsen, then I'll have to return it and begin the search for another lens.



Sep 09, 2017 at 12:31 AM
bjornthun
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Sony FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM vs Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6


I received my Contax 100-300/4.5-5.6 today, and everything is fine. So far it looks to be an impressive lens and performs the way I've read about and seen here on fredmiranda.com. So, a big thanks to everyone who have shown samples, images from it here and written about it, and given it their recommendation!


Sep 13, 2017 at 07:24 PM
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