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Leica SL experience and also Q
  
 
robgo2
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Leica SL experience and also Q


I am not a professional, so my needs differ from some of the previous posters. In my experience, the SL is extremely easy and fast to focus manually. Most of the time I use peaking and only occasionally magnification. Unlike with my Sony, peaking is accurate and useful. I also have the 24-90, and although it may be one of the finest zoom lenses ever made, it still cannot keep up with my prime M-mount lenses (Leica, Zeiss, CV) in terms of IQ. Also, while the 24-90 may be ideal for studio work, carrying it around on the street is a burden that I do not want to bear. Nevertheless, for those who want the speed of AF and the convenience of a zoom, there are few, if any, lenses that can match it. Just be sure to keep up your gym membership.

Rob



Aug 21, 2017 at 04:34 PM
waterden
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Leica SL experience and also Q


I've decided to run with the SL, but only for manual lenses at first. I've always thought the whole point of Leica was its small but high quality optics, both M and R, and the SL offers a better platform for those with ageing eyes than the M10. Hopefully the new lenses will be more manageable than the initial trio but the decision to go for F2 rather than F2.8 won't help in this regard. With today's cameras offering high ISO potential (by which I mean anything over ISO 400) and bright EVFs I see little point in having such fast apertures anyway as their DOF is often wafer-thin and the cost of manufacture is disproportionately higher.

AF certainly has its place - sports, wildlife - but for landscape work MF is preferable and pre-focus speeds up everything else. I've been very tempted by the Q for street work but for the moment I'm using a Ricoh GR II and finding it really hits the mark. Completely unobtrusive, cracking APS-C images and a delight to use, even without an EVF (although an add-on OVF is available). Its Snap feature, whereby you can preset a focus distance and bypass AF, allows easy surreptitious shooting. And it's pocket-sized!

Interesting comments on peaking. I've found that on the Sony cameras to be worse than useless and never use it. it will certainly help if it works properly.



Aug 23, 2017 at 07:55 AM
robgo2
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Leica SL experience and also Q



waterden wrote:
I've decided to run with the SL, but only for manual lenses at first. I've always thought the whole point of Leica was its small but high quality optics, both M and R, and the SL offers a better platform for those with ageing eyes than the M10. Hopefully the new lenses will be more manageable than the initial trio but the decision to go for F2 rather than F2.8 won't help in this regard. With today's cameras offering high ISO potential (by which I mean anything over ISO 400) and bright EVFs I see little point in having such
...Show more

Good luck. I don't think you will regret your decision. Also, regarding f2 vs f2.8, it seems to me that the biggest advantage of faster lenses these days is their ability to blur the background for greater subject separation. If that is important in your work, then f2 or F1.4 is the way to go.

For me, the Q was the gateway to the SL. For you, it may work in reverse. Both cameras are so good that I can see myself keeping them through the next couple of generations of updates. Hopefully, they will help keep my GAS in check, if that is even possible.

Rob


Edited on Aug 23, 2017 at 03:19 PM · View previous versions



Aug 23, 2017 at 03:11 PM
adamdewilde
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Leica SL experience and also Q


I think one of the positives about the SL is that the EVF is so good I don't need magnification or peaking. But results may vary.


Aug 23, 2017 at 03:15 PM
Donzo98
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Leica SL experience and also Q


robgo2 wrote:
Good luck. I don't think you will regret your decision. Also, regarding f2 vs f2.8, it seems to me that the biggest advantage of faster lenses these days is their ability to blur the background for greater subject separation. If that is important in your work, then f2 or F1.4 is the way to go.

For me, the Q was the gateway to the SL. For you, it may work in reverse. Both cameras are so good that I can see myself keeping them through the next couple of generations of updates. Hopefully, they will help keep my GAS in
...Show more

Rob...you and I think exactly the same. I don't think I have ever been so satisfied with my gear. Q first... and then the SL.





Aug 23, 2017 at 05:07 PM
davewolfs
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Leica SL experience and also Q


This is what I call a landscape camera.

https://youtu.be/Fz2BQ9uNHVA

The DR ha gotten to a point where it's so wide you have to wonder if the whole EVF WYSWYG argument even matters anymore.



Aug 24, 2017 at 04:52 AM
low325
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Leica SL experience and also Q


davewolfs wrote:
This is what I call a landscape camera.

https://youtu.be/Fz2BQ9uNHVA

The DR ha gotten to a point where it's so wide you have to wonder if the whole EVF WYSWYG argument even matters anymore.


good grief, SL may have to be placed further down the line! gonna sit on the sidelines for a bit.



Aug 24, 2017 at 04:20 PM
 

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Donzo98
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Leica SL experience and also Q


low325 wrote:
good grief, SL may have to be placed further down the line! gonna sit on the sidelines for a bit.


850 looks nice... but my SL is not going anywhere. TRUST ME Buddy, just trust me.




Aug 24, 2017 at 04:52 PM
robgo2
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Leica SL experience and also Q


low325 wrote:
good grief, SL may have to be placed further down the line! gonna sit on the sidelines for a bit.


For those who are already invested in the Nikon ecosystem and who feel that they need 46MP, the 850 makes sense. But for non-Nikon users, why not wait for the upcoming Sony A7Riii? It will have the same sensor as the 850 (or even better) and will offer all the benefits of mirrorless cameras. Why you will even be able to use Leica lenses.

Personally, I have no real need for a super-high MP camera, nor do the vast majority of people who buy them. Megapixel lust is a variant of GAS. The 24MP images produced by the SL have extraordinary detail, sharpness and color. I can make 16x20 prints that are stunning. The M-mount lenses that I use on the SL are incredible. The native SL lenses are reference quality. What more could I want? I guess that a series of smallish AF lenses would be it.

Rob



Aug 24, 2017 at 08:25 PM
waterden
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Leica SL experience and also Q


Spot on, Rob! There is, of course, a big Canikon infrastructure out there but technological disruption has been taking place in the shape of mirrorless / EVF cameras and this has been largely ignored by these two manufacturers. This seems to me to have been a huge strategic mistake and I wonder what the photographic landscape will look like in five years' time. My bet is that OVFs will be obsolete by then, along with SLRs and RFs.

Martin



Aug 24, 2017 at 08:32 PM
rscheffler
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Leica SL experience and also Q


OVFs will be in a minority, but you have to consider that it's only just now that mirrorless is drawing about even with overall DSLR performance. For someone like me shooting things that move, mirrorless was until the a9, a significant downgrade in capability. And even with the a9, it's only about on-par.

Given Canikon's vast, generally satisfied user base, I guess they don't feel a huge rush to transition to mirrorless just yet when perhaps the technology can't quite deliver the experience higher-end DSLR users expect (though the Sony a9 changes this, as does the SL to a somewhat lesser degree). Canikon have a choice about when to enter the FF mirrorless market. Sony didn't. They had to do it because they were a distant #3 in pseudo-DSLRs. And certainly Canikon have ceded some market to Sony.

Not to draw too much of a car analogy, but I read an interesting piece about early market drivers/disruptors, which in this case would be Tesla, and how they're not guaranteed to emerge on top of the market they've spearheaded, once it matures. Ford, GM, Toyota, etc... still have to 'get serious' about pure EVs and there's no way they're not going to make those. Right now a huge part of the market still wants gas powered F150s, etc. Likewise, Sony has spearheaded the FF mirrorless market while Canikon have tinkered around the fringes; things could change quickly once they get serious. IMO, the current line of Canon DSLRs are already mirrorless cameras in disguise, with excellent DPAF capability in live view. A few tweaks, a top-notch EVF and you potentially have a comprehensive mirrorless system. At least Canon have already demonstrated that their EF glass adapts well to their mirrorless cameras, meaning it would be a relatively painless transition for the existing user base (unlike the variable performance of using Canon EF lenses via Metabones adapters on Sony).

Sorry, this was pretty OT...



Aug 24, 2017 at 09:27 PM
waterden
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Leica SL experience and also Q


You're probably right about Canon - it still has the financial muscle to change the scenery. Nikon? Not so sure. Leica is the interesting one because it is an outlier in just about every way. I suspect the SL, and possibly the TL, will be critical to its survival although the amazingly popular Q, which I'm beginning to suspect is a triumph of hype over substance, is clearly helping margins right now. Good luck to them!

As you say, OT.



Aug 24, 2017 at 09:38 PM
robgo2
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Leica SL experience and also Q


waterden wrote:
You're probably right about Canon - it still has the financial muscle to change the scenery. Nikon? Not so sure. Leica is the interesting one because it is an outlier in just about every way. I suspect the SL, and possibly the TL, will be critical to its survival although the amazingly popular Q, which I'm beginning to suspect is a triumph of hype over substance, is clearly helping margins right now. Good luck to them!

As you say, OT.


I admit that I'm one who bought the Q based on hype, but even so, it has exceeded my expectations in almost every way possible. Lots of substance, if not versatility, in that camera.

Rob



Aug 24, 2017 at 10:36 PM
robgo2
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Leica SL experience and also Q


rscheffler wrote:
OVFs will be in a minority, but you have to consider that it's only just now that mirrorless is drawing about even with overall DSLR performance. For someone like me shooting things that move, mirrorless was until the a9, a significant downgrade in capability. And even with the a9, it's only about on-par.

Given Canikon's vast, generally satisfied user base, I guess they don't feel a huge rush to transition to mirrorless just yet when perhaps the technology can't quite deliver the experience higher-end DSLR users expect (though the Sony a9 changes this, as does the SL to a somewhat lesser
...Show more

If we're discussing action photography, that is an area where DSLRs remain dominant, with the recent exception of the A9. The A7Riii will probably not be as fast, but for most users, it will be more than fast enough.

Rob




Aug 24, 2017 at 10:41 PM
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