Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              30      
31
       32       end
  

The hot debate, Fuji and Sony
  
 
Bubble
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #1 · p.31 #1 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


It is nonsense to even start with this debate . 30 pages? You guys have too much time on your hand. Get out and shot.. whatever system you have.


Oct 02, 2017 at 03:36 PM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #2 · p.31 #2 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Bubble wrote:
It is nonsense to even start with this debate . 30 pages? You guys have too much time on your hand. Get out and shot.. whatever system you have.


Sure 30 pages is not long when people compares crop to FF. It took Nikon couple years to resolve that


Edited on Oct 02, 2017 at 03:59 PM · View previous versions



Oct 02, 2017 at 03:49 PM
Gary Clennan
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #3 · p.31 #3 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony










Oct 02, 2017 at 03:52 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #4 · p.31 #4 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Bubble wrote:
It is nonsense to even start with this debate . 30 pages? You guys have too much time on your hand. Get out and shot.. whatever system you have.


Actually, just returned from five days of photographing in Eastern Nevada. Heading out again tomorrow to a different location, returning for a day or two, and then back in the field once again.

Sometimes the forum is a momentary distraction from that actual photographic work. ;-)

Dan







Wheeler Cirque, Autumn Snow
Great Basin National Park



Oct 02, 2017 at 05:25 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #5 · p.31 #5 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Charlie N wrote:
if canon produced a small mirrorless with the 5Dsr sensor with matching lenses, you'de be all over and ditch the fuji.


Not so sure about that. I've pointed out many times that my reasons for using (currently) the XPro2 are essentially that this system is ideal for the kinds of photography for which I use it. I guess that if Canon produced the XPro2 I would buy the XPro2 from them. But they don't. I have no hesitation about buying the tool that I need from the manufacturer who produces it.

If Canon produced the A7rII would you "be all over it and ditch Sony?" ;-)

To many of this forum, Sony IS that system. Considering you already listed your Fuji gear, the Equivalent is similar in price and even smaller, and of course that IQ..... No need to invest in two systems, single batter charger, true backup system. About all you can grasp at this point are subjective in nature.

Understood. I have repeatedly acknowledged that smart, talented photographers that I know come to that decision. It is an entirely valid choice for some photographers.

It just isn't the only intelligent option, and there are reasons that other photographers don't go that route. There are perfectly good and logical reasons to choose Sony gear, and there are perfectly good and logical reasons to choose other kinds of gear.

"Sony," (like "Canon," "Nikon," "Fujifilm," et al) is an answer to many photographic questions. But "Sony" is not the answer to all questions any more than the others are.

Why is this so hard to understand?

fwiw, no one cared about the scan because it had no point of reference.

Help me understand what "point of reference" would make it more useful to you and I'll endeavor to respond to that concern.

It was a specific response to a specific point made about something I had written regarding print quality potential from 24MP cropped sensor images.

I'll check back for your response on the "point of reference" question and then try to provide that for you.

Dan



Oct 02, 2017 at 05:37 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #6 · p.31 #6 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


gdanmitchell wrote:
"Sony," (like "Canon," "Nikon," "Fujifilm," et al) is an answer to many photographic questions. But "Sony" is not the answer to all questions any more than the others are.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Dan


Dan, where is it stated and by whom that Sony is the "answer" to all photographers questions. Maybe a bit less hyperbole and a bit more facts.



Oct 02, 2017 at 06:31 PM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #7 · p.31 #7 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


chez wrote:
Dan, where is it stated and by whom that Sony is the "answer" to all photographers questions. Maybe a bit less hyperbole and a bit more facts.


+1, ... and he still not know that Sony can natively cross talk to most MFGs lenses and canon from his list, hiccup whenever seeing the bright light, can't even drive their own fast lenses the way they were designed for... and plenty other reasons that many has jumped ship. What good is it Dan when canon has so many uncontrolled variables on their system, a list long behind competitor that's waiting to be fixed but they've never came in many generations


Edited on Oct 03, 2017 at 12:08 AM · View previous versions



Oct 02, 2017 at 06:40 PM
Charlie N
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #8 · p.31 #8 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


gdanmitchell wrote:
Not so sure about that. I've pointed out many times that my reasons for using (currently) the XPro2 are essentially that this system is ideal for the kinds of photography for which I use it. I guess that if Canon produced the XPro2 I would buy the XPro2 from them. But they don't. I have no hesitation about buying the tool that I need from the manufacturer who produces it.

If Canon produced the A7rII would you "be all over it and ditch Sony?" ;-)



Of course if canon made it, I wouldnt have switched in the first place.

Instead, Sony produces gear makes Canon and Fuji APS-C seem like downgrades, and I didnt even bring in costs either, owning both Canon and Fuji would cost more.



Oct 02, 2017 at 07:20 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #9 · p.31 #9 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


First, I"m still interested in your answer to my question about what you mean by "no frame of reference" for my sample file. I await your reply so that I can clarify this concern for you. I hope to respond to you substantively, but I'll wait for your reply on that question.

(I thought that the frame of reference was clear when I posted, but I'm open to your interest in clarification.)

Onward...

Charlie N wrote:
Sony produces gear makes Canon and Fuji APS-C seem like downgrades, and I didnt even bring in costs either, owning both Canon and Fuji would cost more.


That's a fine position to hold, and Sony certainly produces fine equipment.

Lots of good photographers choose to use Sony, including a number of my friends. My point of view happens to be different, I have legitimate reasons for my preferences, and I'm not the only one. That doesn't mean your choice is wrong for you, any more than your choice means that mine is wrong. There should be room for such different points of view without resorting to insults and attacks. Right?

That isn't about knocking Sony ó†if anyone thinks so, please again read the paragraph before this one.

It is simply pointing out that those who insist that their choice is superior in every way and other choices are defective might want to cool it. I'm not saying that you are in that category, but some certainly seem to be.

For anyone who thinks I'm insisting that my choice is better than yours, reread that first paragraph one more time.

I"m still baffled that some ó not necessarily you, but clearly a couple of others in this thread ó†seem unable to accept that it is possible to have fine, legitimate reasons to choose different gear than they choose, or to recognize that people who choose Brand Y might think that Brand X and Brand Z are fine, too.

I wonder: Would anything short of, "Yes, you are totally right in everything you say, for yourself and all other photographers. Your choice is the only right choice, and no smart person could ever make a different choice! Therefore I am selling all of my gear and buying exactly what you say is best!!! And then I'll join you in bashing those who don't agree!!!" would satisfy them? Or if even that would?

I'm even more baffled at their anger and obsession about this stuff.

Anyone who still thinks I'm mad at people who prefer to use Sony (or Nikon or...) or am telling them that they should switch to what I use or that my choices are better than theirs...needs to re-re-read that first paragraph one more time. ;-)

And please keep in mind that this thread is cross-posted to the Fujifilm forum.

YMMV.



Oct 03, 2017 at 02:07 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #10 · p.31 #10 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Reading this discussion with amusement. My 2 Cents especially about one mostly Canon-vested recent poster here - they would rather cut their arm off than spending any Cent for a Sony camera which hurt their beloved Canon brand so much. It has nothing to do with any kind of technical pros or cons of one system versus the other - Fuji is simply the solution to have some good mirrorless system which didn't interfere with Canon at all and runs in parallel (well, Canon M series can't be seen as real competitor here anyway) while Sony mirrorless - especially the A7 series - is a severe competitor as we all know. End of story....


Oct 03, 2017 at 11:47 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 

        


gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #11 · p.31 #11 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


^^^
What "Canon-vested poster" are you referring to? More importantly, specifically what did this person write that warrants your claims about him? (The quote function is a fine way to reference this in your reply.) What does "beloved Canon brand" have to do with this discussion about Sony and Fujifilm, both of which are mirrorless and both of which use Sony sensors? In which thread did this person diss your favorite brand and tell you that his is better than yours?

Why are you arguing with stuff that you made up rather than having a civil discussion about the actual points that this person made? Why do you need to attack the person's personal credibility rather than engaging what the person actually wrote? Why is it so hard to accept that your valid and sensible choices are not the only valid choices and to let that go without personally attacking those who make a different choice for reasons that make as much sense?

For my part, I wrote... well, go read it again. It is only two posts up on this page.

For me, off to the Sierra for a few days now.




Oct 03, 2017 at 01:16 PM
Holger
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #12 · p.31 #12 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


retrofocus wrote:
Reading this discussion with amusement. My 2 Cents especially about one mostly Canon-vested recent poster here - they would rather cut their arm off than spending any Cent for a Sony camera which hurt their beloved Canon brand so much. It has nothing to do with any kind of technical pros or cons of one system versus the other - Fuji is simply the solution to have some good mirrorless system which didn't interfere with Canon at all and runs in parallel (well, Canon M series can't be seen as real competitor here anyway) while Sony mirrorless - especially the
...Show more
I think you underestimate the M5 and M6 severely. Canon sells a large amount. In Japan they trounced Sony last year in mirrorless. Several known photographers like them (Thom Hogan (a Nikon guy) uses the M5 and reviewed it very favorably and Ming Thein recently reviewed the M6 very positively. Esp. Ming Thein is very critical and has a lot more competence than most "photographers" posting here, who only look at specs and 200%).



Oct 03, 2017 at 01:25 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #13 · p.31 #13 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Iíd be very careful on the competency comment. Your insulting some very competent folks on this forum.

Look I been around digital and every brand since they hit the streets. Arguments in the past may have had some solid issues with brands. As time marched on a lot of that has changed for the better. CMOS sensors for instance where absolute trash compared to CCDs back in the 90ís . Now CMOS has really taken over even in Medium Format. These brand wars are really stupid as each brand makes a fairly competent camera against any other brand. Just like throwing peoples names around is just as stupid, there making money on their blogs and a lot of us could not be bothered with that stuff. Stop the BS guys. A lot of this comes down to feature sets, sensors made and very important software for post. Some companies do well here but some rely heavily on 3rd party software as well or buying sensors from others. For the most part they do okay. But I read this and it comes down to brand wars. Why do you care are you being paid to shoot a brand, no so why dilute every discussion with this stuff. Stop justifying what you buy and what brand you buy. It has zero to do with creating captivating images for yourself or clients. My clients donít give a rats ass what I shoot as long as itís good. If a Fuji is getting it done for you why do you care what Sonyís are doing and reverse that role as well. Makes no sense. All we really should care about is that there is competition amongst brands to further the technology and keep costs down between competitors. We are the end users.

Iím sorry this thread is as silly as it is long. Vet gone through 3 bowls of buttered popcorn already. Lol

Anyway no to piss anyone off or cause a big flame thread any more than already is here. But some prospective is needed. What we need to be discussing is future technology, future feature sets and needs going forward and believe it or not about getting better at this Art form.

I know way to logical. Letís get back to the fight. Lol



Oct 03, 2017 at 03:55 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #14 · p.31 #14 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


GMPhotography wrote:
Iím sorry this thread is as silly as it is long. Vet gone through 3 bowls of buttered popcorn already. Lol

Anyway no to piss anyone off or cause a big flame thread any more than already is here. But some prospective is needed. What we need to be discussing is future technology, future feature sets and needs going forward and believe it or not about getting better at this Art form.

I know way to logical. Letís get back to the fight. Lol


This thread is a prime example of why I don't like Fred's decision to post threads in multiple forums - it serves as a "troll link" to invite flame wars like this one.



Oct 03, 2017 at 04:57 PM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #15 · p.31 #15 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


GMPhotography wrote:
... What we need to be discussing is future technology, future feature sets and needs going forward ...


+1. Only science and experiences can help us to escape our own illusion. A closed minds never will, (F)E platform as globalism movement from sony and third parties will help us to close this gap


Edited on Oct 03, 2017 at 05:18 PM · View previous versions



Oct 03, 2017 at 05:06 PM
bjornthun
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #16 · p.31 #16 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Holger wrote:
I think you underestimate the M5 and M6 severely. Canon sells a large amount. In Japan they trounced Sony last year in mirrorless. Several known photographers like them (Thom Hogan (a Nikon guy) uses the M5 and reviewed it very favorably and Ming Thein recently reviewed the M6 very positively. Esp. Ming Thein is very critical and has a lot more competence than most "photographers" posting here, who only look at specs and 200%).


Thom Hogan just reviewed a host of Sony mirrorless gear favourably, and he's got "competence". He also uses Olympus gear, presumably competently. And Nikon!



Oct 03, 2017 at 05:09 PM
Holger
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #17 · p.31 #17 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


bjornthun wrote:
Thom Hogan just reviewed a host of Sony mirrorless gear favourably, and he's got "competence". He also uses Olympus gear, presumably competently. And Nikon!


He does. Gear is good enough nowadays, such that personal preference and abilities are decisive in my opinion. I was relating to the Canon M series being claimed to not be a competitor, which isn't true at all. It offers good enough features and IQ to deliver and consequently sells very well. But here it is mostly used as a negative example and bashed.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:35 PM
Holger
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #18 · p.31 #18 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


mttran wrote:
+1. Only science and experiences can help us to escape our own illusion. A closed minds never will, (F)E platform as globalism movement from sony and third parties will help us to close this gap


What gap do you mean?

The thing is most people here are photographers not scientists. They might use experience and talk about feature sets they would like in the future, but to grasp the science, to understand it and deduce future technologies which make it into real production, is another thing. I doubt many will understand this.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:42 PM
Holger
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #19 · p.31 #19 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


GMPhotography wrote:
Iíd be very careful on the competency comment. Your insulting some very competent folks on this forum.


I didn't insult no one specifically or in general. But in my personal opinion Ming Thein is more competent in many photographic aspects than the majority of people commenting here. The very competent folks you mention is not included in this assessment and as such none of those insulted.



Oct 03, 2017 at 08:50 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #20 · p.31 #20 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Forget it you missed the whole point.

Not worth the argument either



Oct 03, 2017 at 09:00 PM
1       2       3              30      
31
       32       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              30      
31
       32       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password