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Archive 2017 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony

  
 
Michael Everet
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p.29 #1 · p.29 #1 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


One factor that is important when comparing color is the lens. With Sony many use adapted lenses. What happens when for instance you put a Canon lens on the Sony camera? For instance my Contax C/Y 35-70/3.4, has a significantly different color cast than Sony FE lenses on the A7Rii, much more yellow. I haven't tested different Sony lenses against each other, but don't believe the lens itself can be ignored in these comparisons.


Sep 25, 2017 at 09:06 AM
Luvwine
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p.29 #2 · p.29 #2 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Michael Everet wrote:
One factor that is important when comparing color is the lens. With Sony many use adapted lenses. What happens when for instance you put a Canon lens on the Sony camera? For instance my Contax C/Y 35-70/3.4, has a significantly different color cast than Sony FE lenses on the A7Rii, much more yellow. I haven't tested different Sony lenses against each other, but don't believe the lens itself can be ignored in these comparisons.


I just got a 35-70 and have noticed a similar color difference. How do you deal with it in post? Feel fee to PM if you think that more appropriate.



Sep 25, 2017 at 09:11 AM
mttran
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p.29 #3 · p.29 #3 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Michael Everet wrote:
One factor that is important when comparing color is the lens. With Sony many use adapted lenses. What happens when for instance you put a Canon lens on the Sony camera? For instance my Contax C/Y 35-70/3.4, has a significantly different color cast than Sony FE lenses on the A7Rii, much more yellow. I haven't tested different Sony lenses against each other, but don't believe the lens itself can be ignored in these comparisons.


+1. Exactly, this is why shooter needs CWB when adapting 3rd party lenses.



Sep 25, 2017 at 09:13 AM
Charlie N
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p.29 #4 · p.29 #4 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I find that once WB is very good for a given light source, exposure is good, I tweak the skin tones setting in C1 and I'm on the mark. Fast and efficient, LR was such a struggle comparatively.


Sep 25, 2017 at 09:18 AM
Michael Everet
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p.29 #5 · p.29 #5 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Luvwine wrote:
I just got a 35-70 and have noticed a similar color difference. How do you deal with it in post? Feel fee to PM if you think that more appropriate.


I haven't had the lens very long but so far just adjust white balance in LR, usually using the color temp and tint sliders. It's rather a gross adjustment and not entirely satisfactory. I would appreciate hearing from anyone that has a better method, or that has developed a profile for the lens.




Sep 25, 2017 at 09:19 AM
stevesanacore
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p.29 #6 · p.29 #6 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


If you use white balance on auto, wouldn't it compensate for any color shift from the optics? I'm not suggesting that auto is a solution in every case, but just in general?


Sep 25, 2017 at 10:58 AM
Charlie N
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p.29 #7 · p.29 #7 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


stevesanacore wrote:
If you use white balance on auto, wouldn't it compensate for any color shift from the optics? I'm not suggesting that auto is a solution in every case, but just in general?


if only

I can AWB a brick wall with the Sony FE 35 and CV 35 and they give a big difference in color



Sep 25, 2017 at 11:00 AM
BlueBomberTurbo
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p.29 #8 · p.29 #8 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I make my own profiles. So Fuji, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, etc. all look the same. I can get consistent results no matter what camera I shoot, or when it was made. Of course, DR and noise play a part, but I wouldn't be shooting with cameras that were desperately lacking in either area for my needs in the first place.

As far as color casts from different lenses, shoot a WB card with all of your lenses under multiple lighting sources (like camera/software WB presets) and see which way(s) the temp and tint lean. It's not really just about adapted lenses, as different manufacturers will always have different color and contrast between them and inside their brand, even if they're native to the system.



Sep 25, 2017 at 05:10 PM
molson
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p.29 #9 · p.29 #9 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
I make my own profiles. So Fuji, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, etc. all look the same. I can get consistent results no matter what camera I shoot, or when it was made. Of course, DR and noise play a part, but I wouldn't be shooting with cameras that were desperately lacking in either area for my needs in the first place.

As far as color casts from different lenses, shoot a WB card with all of your lenses under multiple lighting sources (like camera/software WB presets) and see which way(s) the temp and tint lean. It's not
...Show more

With the Sony cameras, you almost need a profile for each lens if you're using non-Sony glass. Some of the color shifts are pretty bad (mostly to yellow) with adapted lenses.



Sep 26, 2017 at 12:13 PM
mttran
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p.29 #10 · p.29 #10 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson wrote:
With the Sony cameras, you almost need a profile for each lens if you're using non-Sony glass. Some of the color shifts are pretty bad (mostly to yellow) with adapted lenses.


^^^ c'mon every system shares the same AWB issue while using orphan lenses since they were designed for different profiles, don't we all know this one. Most camera are not smart like our brain for self adjustment which I hope they do someday.... You don't like sony very much, do you



Sep 26, 2017 at 01:05 PM
molson
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p.29 #11 · p.29 #11 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


mttran wrote:
^^^ c'mon every system shares the same AWB issue while using orphan lenses since they were designed for different profiles, don't we all know this one. Most camera are not smart like our brain for self adjustment. You don't like sony very much, do you


But when I use those same lenses on a Canon or Fuji or Nikon body, there is no significant color shift from the native lenses - it only happens when using Sony cameras.

I'm just stating an observation, already noted by many other users, but I guess fanboys interpret any criticism of their sacred Sony cow to mean I don't like it...




Sep 26, 2017 at 02:07 PM
mttran
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p.29 #12 · p.29 #12 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson wrote:
But when I use those same lenses on a Canon or Fuji or Nikon body, there is no significant color shift from the native lenses - it only happens when using Sony cameras.

I'm just stating an observation, already noted by many other users, but I guess fanboys interpret any criticism of their sacred Sony cow to mean I don't like it...



Same here .... just an observation after reading most of your negative comments about sony cam in every thread you have involved. Me, never be a foolish fan of anything, just curious



Sep 26, 2017 at 02:30 PM
Mystik
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p.29 #13 · p.29 #13 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson wrote:
But when I use those same lenses on a Canon or Fuji or Nikon body, there is no significant color shift from the native lenses - it only happens when using Sony cameras.

I'm just stating an observation, already noted by many other users, but I guess fanboys interpret any criticism of their sacred Sony cow to mean I don't like it...



Eh people blow this way out of proportion. I work with second shooters all of the time who use non Sony cameras and have never had an issue getting consistent colors in post. The baseline might be different in terms of the starting point, but since we all shoot raw, I can bring them to the same spot in post.

i.e. shot from last weekend. Me on an a9, second shooter on a 6D. There are things that stand out as different...he used a really high ISO (stopped down too much) and we have different flash techniques...but the colors are basically the same once the processing is done.

These are two quick examples I plucked out (I don't consider his shot to be a keeper because of the bridesmaid's expression), but I have a lot of others if people want to keep harping on this. If this is still going on in October, I'm shooting a wedding with a second shooter who shoots fuji

a9 with adapted Canon 24-70II:

_DSC0866 by Carlo Alcala, on Flickr

6D with Sigma 35:

IMG_7960-3 by Carlo Alcala, on Flickr



Sep 26, 2017 at 04:07 PM
molson
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p.29 #14 · p.29 #14 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Mystik wrote:
Eh people blow this way out of proportion. I work with second shooters all of the time who use non Sony cameras and have never had an issue getting consistent colors in post. The baseline might be different in terms of the starting point, but since we all shoot raw, I can bring them to the same spot in post.

i.e. shot from last weekend. Me on an a9, second shooter on a 6D. There are things that stand out as different...he used a really high ISO (stopped down too much) and we have different flash techniques...but the colors are
...Show more

Try shooting with Contax, Nikon, or Olympus lenses (or any other legacy manual focus glass) on your Sony and tell us how well that works... I think you may find the WB a little more challenging - at least that's what I've found.



Sep 26, 2017 at 04:44 PM
Mystik
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p.29 #15 · p.29 #15 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson wrote:
Try shooting with Contax, Nikon, or Olympus lenses (or any other legacy manual focus glass) on your Sony and tell us how well that works... I think you may find the WB a little more challenging - at least that's what I've found.


Eh difference in baseline colors between lenses and cameras is a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme of things. I've worked with guys that shoot Canon, Nikon, and Fuji and I never think twice about it. Mixed lighting and/or changing lighting conditions are much more difficult things to contend with, and those have nothing to do with what camera or lens was used.



Sep 26, 2017 at 04:58 PM
Charlie N
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p.29 #16 · p.29 #16 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson wrote:
Try shooting with Contax, Nikon, or Olympus lenses (or any other legacy manual focus glass) on your Sony and tell us how well that works... I think you may find the WB a little more challenging - at least that's what I've found.

Contax, a little warmer, Nikon a little cooler from what I recall, I think Olympus was a little cooler too.

if it's a big deal, then stick with one brand and hope they dont come out with newer designs.

IF I find that colors too far off, I'll categorize a shoot based on lenses and color correct separately, it's just the nature of dealing with different lenses in general. Few years back, I traveled with the CV 12, zeiss 24-70 + 55, nikon 105 f2.5, OM 200/5, and while colors were different, it wasnt a dealbreaker, it's no different from shooting sigma/canon/tamron. Most folks are ok with that.



Sep 26, 2017 at 06:56 PM
Mystik
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p.29 #17 · p.29 #17 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony



Charlie N wrote:
Contax, a little warmer, Nikon a little cooler from what I recall, I think Olympus was a little cooler too.

if it's a big deal, then stick with one brand and hope they dont come out with newer designs.

IF I find that colors too far off, I'll categorize a shoot based on lenses and color correct separately, it's just the nature of dealing with different lenses in general. Few years back, I traveled with the CV 12, zeiss 24-70 + 55, nikon 105 f2.5, OM 200/5, and while colors were different, it wasnt a dealbreaker, it's no different from shooting
...Show more

Well even within the same brands, things are not always consistent. Canon L lenses can vary a lot. I.e. look at how the 50L renders vs the 24L



Sep 26, 2017 at 07:46 PM
ajamils
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p.29 #18 · p.29 #18 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


My comment wasn't about stone age lenses. I have only used FE lenses every time I've owned Sony cameras and always found WB and colors to be a lot on the yellow side. In artificial light, that's a whole different can of worms. On the other hand, I've found Fuji to nail WB and colors 99% of the time in any lightning condition.

As for matching colors, maybe it's my lack of LR knowledge but I've always found that if I start out with Fuji RAW and Sony RAW and do same changes, I still end up with different color.



Sep 26, 2017 at 08:07 PM
mttran
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p.29 #19 · p.29 #19 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


molson and ajamils:

You might need to re-calibrate your WB references and this can happen to any camera brand. Every camera has WB utility that you can preset/correct your preferences WB. You can match multi-bodies to your favorite colors this way. Even the same brand, camera does have different colors since most of them have different WB bias points. Here is some sample:

http://jonathanfleming.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/test1.jpg



Sep 26, 2017 at 09:50 PM
Jannik Peters
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p.29 #20 · p.29 #20 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Hi folks, I am following this hot debate for quite some time and I managed to put my fingers on a X-T2 with a few XF lenses.

Maybe my user experience can help you and also this debate, this is my half time report: https://phillipreeve.net/blog/the-fuji-experiment-a-sony-a7ii-user-tries-the-x-t2/



Sep 28, 2017 at 03:34 PM
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