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The hot debate, Fuji and Sony
  
 
kesava
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I did the unthinkable... I bought both systems and I'll be brief. A7R2 and the XT-2 are both in my possession. As are the 55mm 1.8 and the 35mm 1.4 for the sony and the 35mm 1.4, 23mm 1.4 and 56mm 1.2. These points have been beaten to death, but I wanted to add my "regular guy" opinion and maybe convince myself to go one way or the other.

Size:
Winner - Fuji. Between the lenses and body, the Fuji wins. If you want compact and low light performance with wide apertures, the fuji wins.
Counterpoint- If you crank up the ISO on the A7, you don't need wide apertures unless you need DOF.

Controls:
Winner - Fuji. Feels like a camera. A bonafide camera. The shutter of the A7 feels weird without a crisp break.

AF:
Winner: A7. It's magic. The XT-2 is no slouch. There's nothing that I miss from DSLR days with these two cameras.
For any sports or fast action, I would rather have the Sony.

Lenses:
Winner: Fuji. Here's the rub. Fuji has fewer lenses, but they are superb and compact. They focus fast and render well.
If you include the LA-EA4, there's a plethora of lenses at you disposal for Sony. But then, you'r camera is as big as a house... Why'd you go mirrorless in the first place? The compact lenses for Sony are ok, except for the 50mm 1.8. It's garbage. The 28mm and the 35mm 2.8 is a great accompaniment for the sony. The MF loxia's are superb for the sony, but then again, we can start talking about the Zeiss Touit 32mm for the fuji.
If we are going to stay purely in native AF, for size, cost, rendering and speed, Fuji wins.

There's nothing I need to do with the lenses offered by Sony that I can't do with Fuji.

Counterpoint - Legacy lenses on the A7 are butter. My 40mm Noct on the A7 is damn good. I feel like I am going to love the way that the leica 50/2 is going to render. Maybe the Rokinon 135/2 that I've heard so much good about.

Features:
Winner: A7. IBIS.

Value:
Winner A7. If you don't need AF, the MF legacy glass takes advantage of the full sensor, the way the lenses were designed.

What should you do if you're on the fence about Sony and Fuji?
You're screwed. Like me. And here's why...

With the A7, you will have to pay out of the nose to get the glass that really take advantage of the full frame. Both AF and MF are going to cost you more than the fuji counterparts. You will pay less for the fuji focal length equivalents and the lenses will be smaller giving you a great compact system. The DOF offered by fuji will never be as shallow as the FF. Because Science and shit says so... that's why. But, hey, why are you shooting so shallow anyways? Shallow DOF is the worst crutch I ever had as a professional (wannabe) photographer. But the DOF equivilent for the 56mm 1.2 = 85mm f/2.1.... BUT I ONLY WANTED ONE EYE IN FOCUS!
But what if you don't need shallow DOF but want to get full use of the Voigtlander 40mm for landscapes and candid shots of the families? Then get the A7.

I hope that if you're on the fence, you'll realize that no matter which system you choose, you'll realize that there isn't a system with compact, quality, fast lenses and full frame with adapters for legacy lenses. You may be better offer holding onto the A7 and waiting on a 3rd party like sigma to develop 35/2, 50/1.8 and 75/1.7 art lenses that are easy to travel with. But until then, each time you mount the monster of a lens which is the 35mm 1.4, you'll be wishing you had the fuji. If you have the fuji, then you'll be wishing you had a bigger sensor to attach small MF legacy lenses to and use it to it's full potential. Or at least... that's where I am.
Now I own both systems and dont know which one to get rid of. Thank you sir... have a good day.





Jul 25, 2017 at 08:53 PM
VeniceBeach
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I just sold my XT2 and XPro2 and all my Fuji lenses yesterday.
I kept my A9 and all my Sony gear.
I also bought a Panasonic GH5 and some glass.

I really like the Fuji system. But, there is not any IBIS. Many of the best lenses do not have OIS. Video on the Fuji's is an excercise in frustration despite a decent codec.
However, Fuji jpegs really are the bomb.

The A9 crushes the Fuji's for speed, autofocus, buffer and so forth. Sony glass can be great, albeit pricey.

And micro-four thirds? Excellent stills. Regardless of what FF pixelites believe the micro-four thirds world is full of great gear and great lenses that deliver great images even in big prints.

And for video, the GH5 is easily superior to my old A7s2, A7r2 or current A9 for bringing the total package to the table. Cleans their clock. Yes, the A7s2 could see through lead walls into a dark cave but for the best overall package, the GH5 just double taps it in the vitals and walks off.

For those that find video to be either a negative or a rarely used feature from a tripod the Fuji system comes darn close to hitting the sugar. A paucity of telephoto choices is mitigated somewhat by the fine 100-400 with teleconverters. The cameras are just darn fun to shoot with. The jpegs really are better. And the film modes actually work. The AF is good, I felt the XT2 AF was far better than the A7r2 although it takes some experience to figure out how to use it.

If video did not mean anything to me I would go Fuji due to the fun cameras and really nice glass.

If I need an action camera the A9 is as good or better than any other camera available. Sure, you can find an advantage for a D5 or Canon but there are many advantages for the A9.
Sony glass ranges deep into the excellent category and the system is growing. More top cameras and lenses are just around the riverbend.
Sony costs an arm, part of your favorite leg and stress in your relationships though.

Micro four thirds is great. Affordable if you want. Pricey if you want. Best video. Excellent stills. Any that think otherwise are just kidding themselves. For those very few that know how to use a bigger sensor the Fuji and Sony systems have that advantage for sure. Medium format, like the new big sensor Fuji may have even more advantages at times.

I see no reason to pick a system if one can afford the $ and space. Except, shooting more than one system makes it much harder to know a camera like the extension of your bionic self it should be. Much, much harder.

Best and take care,

Bill



Jul 25, 2017 at 09:53 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


kesava wrote:
I did the unthinkable... I bought both systems and I'll be brief. A7R2 and the XT-2 are both in my possession. As are the 55mm 1.8 and the 35mm 1.4 for the sony and the 35mm 1.4, 23mm 1.4 and 56mm 1.2. These points have been beaten to death, but I wanted to add my "regular guy" opinion and maybe convince myself to go one way or the other.

Size:
Winner - Fuji. Between the lenses and body, the Fuji wins. If you want compact and low light performance with wide apertures, the fuji wins.
Counterpoint- If you crank up the
...Show more

Thanks for your opinion but wouldn't a comparison between XT-2 vs A6500 be more "apples to apples" since they share the same APS-C sensor size and resolution?



Jul 25, 2017 at 10:36 PM
kesava
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


No, I think people mostly cross shop these two cameras systems. I don't believe sensor size has a lot to do with it. Resolution stopped mattering for most practical uses 10 mega pixels ago. I sold my canon system to get a small capable system. When the A7 came along, we hoped that small beautiful lenses would follow from. But instead they came out with awesome lenses that were huge and expensive.


Jul 26, 2017 at 01:20 AM
Mystik
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


If you need FF paired with top quality optics then there is no comparison. I didn't cross shop them because the fuji is a non starter for me.

That isn't to say that the a7rii is better than the Fuji or vice versa...it's just that the two appeal to very different markets nowadays.



Jul 26, 2017 at 02:18 AM
chez
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Mystik wrote:
If you need FF paired with top quality optics then there is no comparison. I didn't cross shop them because the fuji is a non starter for me.

That isn't to say that the a7rii is better than the Fuji or vice versa...it's just that the two appeal to very different markets nowadays.


Exactly. I was looking for a small full frame system to replace my 5d2. Fuji did not even enter the picture.



Jul 26, 2017 at 02:22 AM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


chez wrote:
Exactly. I was looking for a small full frame system to replace my 5d2. Fuji did not even enter the picture.


I did the same thing, though I gave Fuji a shot. I liked my XT-1 and the glass was good, but couldn't get used to APSC. Went to Sony after about 4 months of Fuji, and haven't looked back.. that was ~3 years ago.



Jul 26, 2017 at 02:25 AM
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


As has already been mentioned, this is not really a fair comparison as the only thing these two cameras have in common is that they are mirrorless.

One is FF and the other is ASP-C so there is an automatic advantage in lens size with ASP-C cameras but as far as quality goes, the best fuji lenses don't even come close to touching the best Sony FF lenses. But, if you want to take full advantage of the portability of mirrorless than ASP-C is the way to go but I generally find that it limits ones overall flexibility as a pro.

Additionally, one is 42 mp and the other is 24 mp. One is designed more for action as it is capable of shooting 14 fps while the other is designed more for studio and landscape and for making large prints. I actually find it odd that you even give the action edge to the Sony as it is notoriously slow for this type of shooting.

There is no question that the Fuji system and the XT-2 are amazing. If you're fine with just going cropped and 24mp I think that it is the best all around package out there. It edges out the A6500, a more comparable rival, in this regard because Fuji does have a better catalog of good to great cropped lenses. But as a pair with the A7Rii, I think the a6500 is better because you're able to share the lenses across both and even get a little extra reach with the cropped sensor.




Edited on Jul 26, 2017 at 02:50 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2017 at 02:37 AM
kesava
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


Good for you guys. Glad you have your perfect system. Good luck and happy shooting.


Jul 26, 2017 at 02:48 AM
Charlie N
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


kesava wrote:
No, I think people mostly cross shop these two cameras systems. I don't believe sensor size has a lot to do with it. Resolution stopped mattering for most practical uses 10 mega pixels ago. I sold my canon system to get a small capable system. When the A7 came along, we hoped that small beautiful lenses would follow from. But instead they came out with awesome lenses that were huge and expensive.


if sensor size doesnt matter, then fast glass doesnt either.

if you want to do sony full frame vs fuji crop sensor comparison, then it helps to do an apples to apples comparison with same FOV and DOF.

Once you do that, then you start to see that they're more similar in size than you realize. It's called an honest assessment



Jul 26, 2017 at 02:49 AM
 

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notherenow
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


These sort of things always open the can of worms.

Sony makes three (now four) different FF cameras and plenty of choice for lenses too.

Want great high ISO- A7sii
Want a lower priced all rounder - A7ii
Want a high pixel count top shelf camera -A7Rii
Want a pro sports camera -A9

None of those have a direct comparison to any particular Fuji.

Then of course if you are going to compare a APSC camera with a high res FF camera, why not compare on DOF?

I don't think I would take any Fuji lenses over the 55 1.8 or 85 1.8 and for high ISO, well I will keep my original A7s thanks.

Horses for courses and some people will prefer Fuji for THEIR reasons. Others will prefer Sony.




Jul 26, 2017 at 02:57 AM
kesava
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I haven't met anyone whos looked at the a6500 and the Fuji. I'm sure there are people out there. But I've come across plenty of people looking at these two systems. That's who this review is for.
If you're measurebating pixels and crap like that, yes, not same ballpark. But if you're interested in making good photographs with good glass, these two systems do compare. If you need 48mp for work, awesome. If you need it for your kids soccer game, good on ya. No one cares about that when the end result is quality photography.



Jul 26, 2017 at 03:03 AM
thenoilif
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


kesava wrote:
When the A7 came along, we hoped that small beautiful lenses would follow from.


There are many small (proportionally speaking) nice FF lenses available but unfortunately, the laws of science still require that the fastest ones need large pieces of glass.



Jul 26, 2017 at 03:11 AM
kesava
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I dunno, I get more from the feel and extension of a system more than from charts and corner sharpness at 300% on a gray wall with a box of crayons. Just my opinion, but caring so deeply about mega pixels at this size and dof is very, pedantic and misguided. The difference are personal preference. These are crutches and limiters to true creativity. Do I need shallow doc from time to time? Yes. Does that mean I need a 200/2 to get compression and isolation? No. Get the shot and use your skill. Seems like this might be a sore spot for people.


Jul 26, 2017 at 03:16 AM
kesava
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


My voigtlander is my fastest and smallest lens for FF. Theres no reason we couldn't have gotten a small quality 35/2 or they could have engineered their 50mm 1.8 better cause its shit


Jul 26, 2017 at 03:19 AM
thenoilif
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


kesava wrote:
I dunno, I get more from the feel and extension of a system more than from charts and corner sharpness at 300% on a gray wall with a box of crayons. Just my opinion, but caring so deeply about mega pixels at this size and dof is very, pedantic and misguided. The difference are personal preference. These are crutches and limiters to true creativity. Do I need shallow doc from time to time? Yes. Does that mean I need a 200/2 to get compression and isolation? No. Get the shot and use your skill. Seems like this might be a
...Show more

I ask you this, if true creativity is your main driving force, why choose a system that limits that? With FF you have greater flexibility with frame size, and with DoF. With more megapixeles, you have greater flexibility in post-processing. In addition, you have two amazing cameras that practically cover every aspect of photography that you could do so you seem to be all set. Why the need to prove which one is better?

Lastly, what's with that personal jibe at the end? I don't see anyone making personal comments but you. I think everyone has responded reasonably. Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean that their opinions are driven by some overwhelming need to defend their preferences due to some emotional deficiency.



Jul 26, 2017 at 03:39 AM
notherenow
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


kesava wrote:
I dunno, I get more from the feel and extension of a system more than from charts and corner sharpness at 300% on a gray wall with a box of crayons. Just my opinion, but caring so deeply about mega pixels at this size and dof is very, pedantic and misguided. The difference are personal preference. These are crutches and limiters to true creativity. Do I need shallow doc from time to time? Yes. Does that mean I need a 200/2 to get compression and isolation? No. Get the shot and use your skill. Seems like this might be a
...Show more

Hang on!

You open up a debate and then don't seem to get that others may not hold the same opinions? (much of what you wrote in your OP is very subjective).

I don't need a fast 35mm FF lens (your Fuji 23mm 1.4 equivalent).

I also don't need an A7Rii or Fuji XT-2.

That said, my aging and pixel limited A7s with 55 1.8 and FE 85 1.8 weighs less than the XT-2, 35 1.4 and 56 1.2 and I have the same sort of subject isolation and much better high ISO (plus can use APSC mode in a pinch for stills and fine for video). In fact I can add a third lens and my FF camera and three lenses will still weigh less than your APSC camera and two lenses. See, it all depends on what someone wants.

If someone is looking at a couple of systems, then they should look at as many sources as possible.

Choice is good and the Fuji system looks very nice. Not for me but nice.

I currently would rather add a decent M43 camera to complement FF mirrorless.

Others will differ.


Edited on Jul 26, 2017 at 03:53 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2017 at 03:43 AM
kesava
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


thenoilif wrote:
I ask you this, if true creativity is your main driving force, why choose a system that limits that? With FF you have greater flexibility with frame size, and with DoF. With more megapixeles, you have greater flexibility in post-processing. In addition, you have two amazing cameras that practically cover every aspect of photography that you could do so you seem to be all set. Why the need to prove which one is better?

Lastly, what's with that personal jibe at the end? I don't see anyone making personal comments but you. I think everyone has responded reasonably. Just because they
...Show more

it does seem sore. I was expected to compare equivalent DOF and lens lengths, etc. Which this wasn't ever my intent. I don't mean it personally. In a photography forum, the ends justifies the means. If you read my OP you'd see that I couldn't choose which one was better, because they both had flaws and perks. And if anyone was cross shopping, like I was, essentially, you're screwed. The reasons you find to like one system is a take away from the other. The best camera in the world is the one you have with you. and ultimately the reason why you would choose to go with a system.


Edited on Jul 26, 2017 at 04:03 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2017 at 03:52 AM
kesava
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


notherenow wrote:
Hang on!

You open up a debate and then don't seem to get that others may not hold the same opinions? (much of what you wrote in your OP is very subjective).

I don't need a fast 35mm FF lens (your Fuji 23mm 1.4 equivalent).

I also don't need an A7Rii or Fuji XT-2.

That said, my aging and pixel limited A7s with 55 1.8 and FE 85 1.8 weighs less than the XT-2, 35 1.4 and 56 1.2 and I have the same sort of subject isolation and much better high ISO (plus can use APSC mode in a pinch for stills and
...Show more
I purposefully left out sensor size and ISO rating because EVERY other comparison has it. It's been beleaguered and in my opinion, not a reason most people need a camera.
You're absolutely right, those lens equivalents are so similar and that's the problem. That's the smallest glass will get for the A7 at that aperture. but that's also the fastest the glass can be for Fuji and you can't get any more isolation than that. However, you can adapt a 58mm 1.2 rokkor for the sony and BOOM magic... but now you have an adapter and MF... I don't know about you but that makes me want to pull my hair out.


Edited on Jul 26, 2017 at 04:18 AM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2017 at 04:02 AM
Mystik
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · The hot debate, Fuji and Sony


I shoot at high ISO a lot. End of discussion for me.


Jul 26, 2017 at 04:06 AM
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