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Archive 2017 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!

  
 
MedicineMan404
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Joshua I'm just now seeing this and my head is spinning. Wonderful MacGyverism going on here! I have an a9 but sadly my 400 is the DOii


Jul 25, 2017 at 11:27 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Faulta wrote:
F11 would be diffraction limited anyways, I don't expect a lot more sharpness with the 1600mm F11 setup than a cropped 1120mm F8, if at all.
With the a9, it makes more sense, but I think the best combination to get more reach and better focus would be the a6500 with the 1120mm combination



taperwood wrote:
I was just going to say the same thing. Try this on an a6500. There would be no further aperture hit and you would get next best to A9's AF system. I'm guessing you would get 1680mm-ish equivalent from your 400mm? That would be impressive.



Thank you! Yes, the idea of using the A6500 is great and I would love to try this setup on an A6500 but I don't have that either . Chances are, I will end up with an A9 earlier as it is more suitable for wildlife.



Jul 26, 2017 at 09:37 AM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Jannik Peters wrote:
Thank you, Joshua! That is amazing and absolutely crazy!! I wish I could afford that beast


No problem and thank you, Jannik!



eriet30 wrote:
wow


Thank you!




ManuelLaMantia wrote:
+1
Jannik, it will be for the next life
Thanks Joshua, in the end the beast seems manageable in term of dimensions
Manuel


Thank you, Manuel! I am not the youngest nor the fittest but I still manage to handle that. I took it to Costa Rica and did some trekking in the jungle there. You could easily handle that beast.....



tntcorp wrote:
the in-focused branches (lower left) of the in-flight image are quite sharp given (1) you stacked 3 converters, 2) branches are swaying in the wind, and 3) they aren't the intended subject.

i have stacked two converters on a mf f/2.8 on a non-sony body and was impressed with the sharpness. the result from triple stacking is really unexpected. good work... :')


Thank you! As long as you have a fairly sturdy tripod, yes. Both the IS of the camera and/or IBIS help here. But I sold my gimbal head and my even longer Canon lens already since I didn't think that something like this would not be feasible with a Sony FE setup.



Jul 26, 2017 at 09:46 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Joshua -- Your enthusiasm is contagious! Thanks for the exploration and findings of the Canon 400/2.8 and teleconverters. Amazing!


Jul 26, 2017 at 09:47 AM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


MedicineMan404 wrote:
Joshua I'm just now seeing this and my head is spinning. Wonderful MacGyverism going on here! I have an a9 but sadly my 400 is the DOii


Thank you, Robert! I know you have both Sony FE tele extenders, too. You better sell your Metabones IV and get the V and you can use both although one at the time with your DO Mark II on your A9. Do you still have any Canon TC? At least the 1.4X? You can combine that and push the envelope.That would be awesome!



Jul 26, 2017 at 09:51 AM
bluloo
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Excellent shots.
The SEL20TC, is the 2x you're using, yes?



Jul 26, 2017 at 01:35 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Gunzorro wrote:
Joshua -- Your enthusiasm is contagious! Thanks for the exploration and findings of the Canon 400/2.8 and teleconverters. Amazing!


Jim, thank you very much, buddy!



bluloo wrote:
Excellent shots.
The SEL20TC, is the 2x you're using, yes?


Thank you, Louis! And yes, that's the one!



Jul 26, 2017 at 04:45 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Fred Miranda wrote:
We would lose 4 stops of light but with your 400/2.8, the A9 should still focus at f/11.
1600mm f/11!



Fred, when I first tried my Canon 2X and Sony FE 2X in the green mode in AF-C, the camera struggled to focus but couldn't. So, I switched to the AF-S mode and my A7r II still could not AF. So, I figured, 2X TC plus 2X tele extender plus the 400mm f/2.8 or 1,600mm at f/11 was simply too much for the A7r II. Today though I felt like trying a different mode that I originally simply assumed would not work, namely the advance mode of the Metabones V. As anticipated, I found out that the AF-C mode didn't work but to my surprise and a pleasant one at that, the AF works on the AF-S.

The advance mode of Metabones employs the AF hybrid mode while the green mode uses PDAF. From my experience the green mode is better for tracking and acquiring AF. So, it was a surprise that the advance mode of the A7r II can still deliver AF of the 1,600mm focal length at f/11 to me, albeit only in AF-S mode. I am attaching is a strictly sample test. The lighting conditions that I tried out the 1,600mm FL here were good and I used a high contrast target for that. So, the real test will be this Sunday, I guess when I will try 1,600mm at the burrowing owl site again. While the exif data reports the correct FL, 1,600mm but the aperture data is off. For sure, it wasn't f/1.2 . Stay tuned!



© AGeoJO 2017

No longer used for evaluating front/back focus - just a relic from my DSLR days




Jul 26, 2017 at 06:52 PM
rji2goleez
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


taperwood wrote:
I was just going to say the same thing. Try this on an a6500. There would be no further aperture hit and you would get next best to A9's AF system. I'm guessing you would get 1680mm-ish equivalent from your 400mm? That would be impressive.


If Joshua wants to send me his lens and extenders, I would be happy to try it on my A6500!🤔😬😳



Jul 26, 2017 at 07:04 PM
bluloo
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!




Thanks, and one more question. On the prior page, you wrote:

quote] The rear opening of Sigma MC-11 is similar to that of the Metabones IV; you cannot mount any FE tele-extender. I can extend my Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art lens using either the FE 1.4X and FE 2X


Are you saying that you can attach the SLE20TC to the rear of the Sigma, and then attach the TC to the MC-11/MBV? (TC between Sigma and adapter)



Jul 26, 2017 at 07:59 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!




Are you saying that you can attach the SLE20TC to the rear of the Sigma, and then attach the TC to the MC-11/MBV? (TC between Sigma and adapter)


You can extend your Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art using either the SEL14TC or SEL20TC if you use the Metabones V but NOT the IV nor the Sigma MC-11. The rubber housing of both SEL TC is too large. In the case of the Metabones V, you mount any of the SEL TCs in the rear of the Metabones V and then mount the lens in the front of it. So, the Metabones V is sandwiched between the Sigma lens and one of the SEL TCs. Hope this helps but please feel free to ask any more you may have.



Jul 26, 2017 at 08:08 PM
bluloo
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!




You can extend your Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art using either the SEL14TC or SEL20TC if you use the Metabones V but NOT the IV nor the Sigma MC-11. The rubber housing of both SEL TC is too large. In the case of the Metabones V, you mount any of the SEL TCs in the rear of the Metabones V and then mount the lens in the front of it. So, the Metabones V is sandwiched between the Sigma lens and one of the SEL TCs. Hope this helps but please feel free to ask any more you may have.


Thanks. I have both the MBV and MC-11.
It looked like the housing on the SEL TC extended too far to work that way, but I may give it a shot if the IQ is still good on the 135 Art.

Might also be neat with the Canon 300L F4, the canon 1.4 TC and the SEL 2x TC, though I don't know about the IQ with the 300mm.

Edit - And now I’m wondering if the SEL TC would work with the LA-EA3 and Tamron 150-600 without destroying the IQ...



Jul 26, 2017 at 08:17 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!




Thanks. I have both the MBV and MC-11.
It looked like the housing on the SEL TC extended too far to work that way, but I may give it a shot if the IQ is still good on the 135 Art.

Might also be neat with the Canon 300L F4, the canon 1.4 TC and the SEL 2x TC, though I don't know about the IQ with the 300mm.

Edit - And now I’m wondering if the SEL TC would work with the LA-EA3 and Tamron 150-600 without destroying the IQ...


I would recommend you to get the SEL14TC. The loss of the optical quality of the host lens is minimal using that 1.4X TC. I could barely see any degradation of the Sigma lens with it. That Sigma lens is optically truly superb. The loss is definitely more with the SEL20TC but still not bad and will do just fine in a pinch.

I am not sure about the LA-EA 3 though. What you can do, you can rent the SEL14TC and try it out and you can try it out on the other Canon lenses that you already have, too. If it works and you are happy with the results, then by all means.



Jul 26, 2017 at 08:33 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


I just came back from the local burrowing owl site. The owls definitely were more active a little later in the morning when they started hunting and feeding. In other words, they flew around more. Not that it mattered much for this purpose, which was to evaluate the the Canon EF 400mm f/2.8 IS Mark II to work with a combo of Canon 2X TC in the front of the Metabones V and the Sony FE tele extender 2X behind the Metabones V as we knew upfront that it won't be able to get auto focus in continuous mode.

Th Metabones V was set on the advance mode, which facilitates the contrast detect AF, the camera was set at AF-S, the aperture was completely open, which should have read f/11 but instead f/1.2. The setup autofocus worked decently, not the fastest but I am still impressed that it could even autofocus. It worked better if I manually focus to be close to the target then it would focus faster. Is it not easier to just manually focus, one may ask? Well, the accuracy suffers if you do that as the depth of field is really shallow. If you used the magnifying mode then it would be longer. With this AF mode you still can auto focus targeting the eyes, for example. And it is really accurate. The optical quality is more than decent.

The bottom line is this, if push comes to shove, and you need or want to capture something far, far away and you couldn't get closer for whatever reasons, the combo of 2X plus 2X and Canon 400mm f/2.8 will get you a focal length of 1,600mm at f/11 with AF with more than just decent image quality. Please check out the images and their crops yourself. The first burrowing owl was standing more in an open area and he was lit from the right by morning sunlight. The second guy was standing in a completely shaded area. To maintain a decent shutter speed to minimize vibration at this long focal length, the resulting ISO was ISO3200. Oh, well, still not bad though.

Thank you!



© AGeoJO 2017





© AGeoJO 2017





© AGeoJO 2017





© AGeoJO 2017




Jul 30, 2017 at 04:45 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


AGeoJO wrote:
Fred, when I first tried my Canon 2X and Sony FE 2X in the green mode in AF-C, the camera struggled to focus but couldn't. So, I switched to the AF-S mode and my A7r II still could not AF. So, I figured, 2X TC plus 2X tele extender plus the 400mm f/2.8 or 1,600mm at f/11 was simply too much for the A7r II. Today though I felt like trying a different mode that I originally simply assumed would not work, namely the advance mode of the Metabones V. As anticipated, I found out that the AF-C mode didn't
...Show more

I'm assuming you are shooting from a study tripod. Right?



Jul 30, 2017 at 04:53 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm assuming you are shooting from a study tripod. Right?


Fred, thanks for your comment! Yes, I did use my sturdy tripod alright. There is no way I could handhold that setup, even when I was younger, let alone now . Not only the weight but the movement at 1,600mm was ginormous. Furthermore, I venture to guess that the electronic first curtain shutter helps tremendously in minimizing the vibration from the shutter curtain at this FL. Something that DSLR users notice quite a bit ; that could contribute to the difference is IQ between DSLR and mirrorless in this case.



Jul 30, 2017 at 05:00 PM
BlueBomberTurbo
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


I also tried a crazy combination like that, though with different equipment:

A6300
Metabones IV
Sigma APO EX DG 1.4X
Sigma APO EX DG 2.0x
Sigma 150-600 C

Interesting what Sigma does with the firmware of the TCs. 1.4x AFs fine at all focal lengths and apertures (840mm optical). 2.0x won't AF past 400mm on the lens (800mm optical). BUT, if you drop the 1.4x behind it, it will AF up to 600mm (1680mm F/18 optical!) again. On the A6300, that's 2520mm equivalent! And it AFs just fine as long as you're outside. It can still AF indoors with decent lighting, but will do so very slowly. All in Green Mode. Haven't tried it on my MC-11 yet, but I prefer using the Metabones since the AF seems more consistent.

In the end, though, the total combo isn't that good optically. 1.4x alone is fine. Images are nearly as sharp as without it. And 2x alone is decent with enough sharpening. But since 2x only AFs up to the same magnification as the 1.4x, and loses twice the light, there's really no reason to use it. I'll have to give the Sony 2x a shot eventually.



Jul 30, 2017 at 08:23 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


WOW! Stunning images! Thanks.

K-H.



Jul 30, 2017 at 08:34 PM
MedicineMan404
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


Bluebomber, you said ' there's really no reason to use it'.
What about for fun



Jul 30, 2017 at 08:43 PM
AGeoJO
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Long reach using Sony E-mount cameras - optical 1120mm with AF!


rji2goleez wrote:
If Joshua wants to send me his lens and extenders, I would be happy to try it on my A6500!🤔😬😳


Thanks for the offer, Bob but the last time i checked with all couriers, it is less expensive to ship your A6500 to me rather than my lens to you . Just kidding.



BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
I also tried a crazy combination like that, though with different equipment:

A6300
Metabones IV
Sigma APO EX DG 1.4X
Sigma APO EX DG 2.0x
Sigma 150-600 C

Interesting what Sigma does with the firmware of the TCs. 1.4x AFs fine at all focal lengths and apertures (840mm optical). 2.0x won't AF past 400mm on the lens (800mm optical). BUT, if you drop the 1.4x behind it, it will AF up to 600mm (1680mm F/18 optical!) again. On the A6300, that's 2520mm equivalent! And it AFs just fine as long as you're outside. It can still AF indoors with decent lighting, but will do so
...Show more


Yup, it fun exploring longer and longer reach, pushing the envelope . As far as IQ concerned, well, that's the drawback of zoom lenses.... On the Canon side, since I am familiar with Canon lenses that Nikon lenses, there are two zoom lenses that would do well using tele extenders. The Canon 200-400mm f/4 with built-in TC and the Canon 100-400mm Mark II. The first one is big, heavy and yes, very expensive. The second one is more manageable and quite a bit less expensive. I just received mine the other day and I am pleased with how it performs. And yes, with 1.4X and 1.4X TCs with AF.



Jul 30, 2017 at 09:21 PM
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