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Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?
  
 
Frogfish
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Background : A few years ago I recommended they bought a Lumix LX100, which they did and love. However as my daughter is a serious fashion blogger (her main source of income) and model (only part-time now) and her partner's blog concentrates on luxury travel, resorts and hotels (and how to get points to get them free/at huge discounts) they need their camera for different functions, wide low light and wide for him and generally a portrait lens (low DoF and environmental) for her.

Blogs (my daughter built both) that they will use the camera for:
Her Blog : http://www.euriental.com/
His Blog : http://www.jarvismarcos.com/

Shooting outside with a fast lens means either a capability to shoot at 1/4000 or faster or the ability to take ND filters.

Their budget is around 1,000.

They were looking at the Pen E-PL8 with 45mm but I'm not sure if this is suitable (certainly not for him) and which lenses (and the cost) would achieve their aims. Maybe the Sony A6000 is a better option - but as I use Sony/Nikon I know the Sony lenses aren't cheap and their APS-C range limited compared to Oly and Fuji.

I know they also have some great fixed lens cameras they could look at too. Though would they meet the criteria (low light, FL range and low DoF) ? I think they may be able to get an APS-C sensor for their cash but maybe a M43 and better lenses would be even better ?

Maybe something older such as Samsung NX20, Fuji X-E1 Fuji XT10 or 20 Fuji XE-2s ? I thought the Lumix DC-GX800 looks good too but the lens just seems too slow overall.

Currently I'm thinking either the Oly OM-D E-M10 (stabilisation would help with a slower WA lens and WiFi to get pics to their phones for quick Twitter/IG posts) or Sony A6000.

Can anybody recommend a body and lenses to suit the above I can investigate ?

Cheers !
Kevin



Jul 24, 2017 at 09:13 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Hi Kevin,

I would definitely go with an older camera with this budget. The older 24mp APS-C sensor from Sony in the A6000 and the New-7 is excellent and the 16mp M4/3rds sensor is quite good. The Nex 7 is about the same price as an e-M10 (version 1) used and I think the Sony is a better camera, but you might get a bit better lenses for m4/3rds. For lenses on the Sony I would go with the Sigma 19 f/2.8 as a wider lens. Then to that I would add either the Sony 35 f/1.8 or the Zeiss Touit 32 f/1.8. The Sony goes for about $175 and the Zeiss for about $400, but I do like the Zeiss better. It has a a very classic Zeiss Planar rendering, however, which some like and some don't. I like it. Then I would add either the Sony 50 f/1.8 or the Sony/Zeiss 55 f/1.8. The Sony f/1.8 goes for about $200 used, whereas the Sony/Zeiss is about $600 if you look around for a good deal on a used one. It doesn't sound like the budget would allow both the Zeiss 35 and the Sony/Zeiss 55, so if it were me with that budget I would prioritize the better longer lens. So, for Sony I would recommend the Nex 7, the Sigma 19 f/2.8; the Sony 35 f/1.8, and the Sony/Zeiss 55 f/1.8. I think that would make a very nice kit and I think stay within budget.

For the Olympus kit I would recommend the e-M10 which costs about $300 and to that I would add the Panny 14 f/2.5 which is a very nice tiny little lens and cost just $100 or so used. The Panasonic Leica 15 f/1.7 is a bit better and only costs $275 or so used and the budget is there. This to me is a trade off between size and quality, although the Panny/Leica is still quite small it just isn't pancakes small like the 14. Then I would add the Olympus 25 f/1.8 which costs about $200 used and finally I would add the Olympus 45 f/1.8 which is a throughly competent if not exciting portrait lens, and only costs about $175. So, if it were me I would go with the e-M10, the Panny/Leica 15 f/1.7; the Olympus 50 f/1.8, and the Olympus 45 f/1.8. I would love to be able to add the Panny/Leica 42.5 f/1.2, but that would totally blow the budget.

I think the Sony kit is actually very nice and would be my preference here, but you do save a bit of money with the Olympus kit and you get IBIS. Both are very nice kits, however, so I think this is a good choice to have.



Jul 24, 2017 at 02:01 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Hi Kevin

As you may know, I am a fan of Olympus - not a fanboy but just a fan of m43. I am not familiar with the APS-C mirrorless systems to give you any advise on that. Just sold my A7R II as I couldn't get comfortable with that camera for some weird reason, and really, the Olympus files aren't bad at all. On the contrary, I think m43 cameras can deliver IQ that exceeds most of the average photographer's skills. And the Olympus IBIS is HUGE advantage.

The Pen-F is a handsome and good camera but maybe too expensive. The next best model is probably the OM-10 Mk II. FYI the Mk III is about to be released. And I would recommend a zoom lens with it - maybe the compact Panasonic 12-35, or the less expensive and slower Oly or Panny 14-42 lens.

Here's a DXO review and sensor rating of the E-M10 II vs E-M10:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olympus/OM-D-E-M10-Mark-II

And recommended lenses based on the original EM-10:

https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-Olympus-OM-D-EM-10-Standard-and-Short-telephoto-primes-and-zooms/Best-zoom-lenses-for-the-Olympus-OM-D-EM-10



Jul 24, 2017 at 02:27 PM
omarccx
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


I would definitely go for a Sony A6000. Gently used models go for $300 (that's what I sold mine for back in 2015). Leaving about $700 for lenses. I don't think you could get a better camera than the A6000 for video/photos for the price.

For lenses I'd probably do Samyang 12mm (landscapes, interiors), the Sigma 19mm (slightly wider view than your typical iPhone camera, 28 vs 35), and then a Sony 50mm 1.8 for portraits (it has OSS for video, too).

Either that or the Sigma 19 + Sony 35mm (shorter FL more suitable for video, but quite expensive) + Sony 50mm.



Jul 24, 2017 at 03:33 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I would definitely go with an older camera with this budget. The older 24mp APS-C sensor from Sony in the A6000 and the New-7 is excellent and the 16mp M4/3rds sensor is quite good. The Nex 7 is about the same price as an e-M10 (version 1) used and I think the Sony is a better camera, but you might get a bit better lenses for m4/3rds. For lenses on the Sony I would go with the Sigma 19 f/2.8 as a wider lens. Then to that I would add either the Sony 35 f/1.8 or the Zeiss
...Show more

Thanks Steve. Great info as always.

I really like the look of the M43 kit for them. They are not pure photographers and just need great pics for their blogs (see above) and probably lenses such as the 55/1.8 (which I have) are more than they need whereas the Oly lenses you'll mentioned seem to have the IQ they need to see them take the next step and improve on the LX100 whilst still keeping the size/weight down for their travels.

They could then get the E.M10 mk ii instead of the mk 1, with some important upgrades inc. an electronic shutter and 1/16,000 shutter speed negating the need for ND filters for their photography in strong sunlight !

e.g. (some important differences in prices between the USA and UK, the Pana Leica 15mm for example is around 450).

EM10 mkii : 449
Oly 45/1.8 : 200
Pana 12-35 : 260

Total : 909 + add hoods for both lenses and ND, UV (sea salt) and Polariser filters plus camera/lens cleaning equipment and that should be around 970 - 1,000.




Jul 24, 2017 at 03:53 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


bobbytan wrote:
Hi Kevin

As you may know, I am a fan of Olympus - not a fanboy but just a fan of m43. I am not familiar with the APS-C mirrorless systems to give you any advise on that. Just sold my A7R II as I couldn't get comfortable with that camera for some weird reason, and really, the Olympus files aren't bad at all. On the contrary, I think m43 cameras can deliver IQ that exceeds most of the average photographer's skills. And the Olympus IBIS is HUGE advantage.

The Pen-F is a handsome and good camera but maybe too expensive. The
...Show more

Thanks Bobby - I was hoping you'd chime in !

Yes the Pen-F is to expensive at 999 over there. And your DXO comparison link highlights the improvements between the M10 mk 1 and 2 that could them a lot (electronic shutter, 1/16,000 SS, dust cleaning, 100 vs 200 ISO and so on).

IBIS is going to be very important to him, shooting in plane and hotel room interiors, giving him a lot more leeway with regard to slower shutter speeds (and that 100 ISO) and meaning he can get away with slower lenses.

The Panasonic 12-35 looks to be very good value for 260 over there. Kit would be as I posted above.





Jul 24, 2017 at 04:04 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Frogfish wrote:
Thanks Steve. Great info as always.

I really like the look of the M43 kit for them. They are not pure photographers and just need great pics for their blogs (see above) and probably lenses such as the 55/1.8 (which I have) are more than they need whereas the Oly lenses you'll mentioned seem to have the IQ they need to see them take the next step and improve on the LX100 whilst still keeping the size/weight down for their travels.

They could then get the E.M10 mk ii instead of the mk 1, with some important upgrades inc. an electronic
...Show more

Sounds like a great kit. The panasonic 12-35 (if it is the f/2.8 lens) is a great option. I had no idea the price had dropped that far on it. If it isn't the f/2.8, (I had a very negative reaction to the slower zooms on M4/3rds), then adding the panny 14 and 25 ought to be doable. The panny 14 is a surprisingly good lens and I liked the Oly 25 as much as the Oly 45. Both are very solid and affordable options. Regarding the 1/16,000 shutter speed I have never needed it for f/1.8 lenses, but then again I live pretty far north and hate shooting in bright sun so almost never do. If they live in England, however, their experience may well be like mine and they may have very little need fro 1/16,000.



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:05 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


This is very good kit. The 45/1.8 would be great lens for portraits and low-light situations. And the Panny 12-35 is a really good pro-grade lens.

Frogfish wrote:
EM10 mkii : 449
Oly 45/1.8 : 200
Pana 12-35 : 260

Total : 909 + add hoods for both lenses and ND, UV (sea salt) and Polariser filters plus camera/lens cleaning equipment and that should be around 970 - 1,000.




Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 04:17 PM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:10 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


omarccx wrote:
I would definitely go for a Sony A6000. Gently used models go for $300 (that's what I sold mine for back in 2015). Leaving about $700 for lenses. I don't think you could get a better camera than the A6000 for video/photos for the price.

For lenses I'd probably do Samyang 12mm (landscapes, interiors), the Sigma 19mm (slightly wider view than your typical iPhone camera, 28 vs 35), and then a Sony 50mm 1.8 for portraits (it has OSS for video, too).

Either that or the Sigma 19 + Sony 35mm (shorter FL more suitable for video, but quite expensive) +
...Show more

Thank you omarccx ! If it were me then I'd definitely go for the A6000 but the more I look at the lenses the more options I'm seeing for them in Oly/Pana .... and at much lower prices than Sony, in general, (I'm a Sony user and bar the 10-18 I think I'd probably only use FF lenses on the A series).

They use their phones for video.

The major upgrade is the APS-C sensor of course. I'll need to go over this with them. It's possible on the M43 system the f1.8 Oly lenses can give them the lower DoF they want for portraits whilst the slower wides are going to be more than adequate for him for interiors etc. with IBIS, where fast lenses are of little use anyway due to the narrow DoF.



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:10 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Steve Spencer wrote:
Sounds like a great kit. The panasonic 12-35 (if it is the f/2.8 lens) is a great option. I had no idea the price had dropped that far on it. If it isn't the f/2.8, (I had a very negative reaction to the slower zooms on M4/3rds), then adding the panny 14 and 25 ought to be doable. The panny 14 is a surprisingly good lens and I liked the Oly 25 as much as the Oly 45. Both are very solid and affordable options. Regarding the 1/16,000 shutter speed I have never needed it for f/1.8 lenses, but
...Show more

Thanks Steve. It is the slower variable aperture 12-32 so if this isn't a good lens your prime options come into play. I'll have to see how he feels about primes over a zoom.

They travel all over the world for their blogs (this year alone Maldives, Fuji, Australia, NZ, USA, Morocco and of course Europe) so often bright sunlight is involved where 1/8,000 could be the slowest SS to handle bright sunlight at f1.8 so that 1/16,000 means they wouldn't have to think about it ! I've noticed a few blown highlights on their beach photos.



Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 04:21 PM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:14 PM
 

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Frogfish
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


bobbytan wrote:
This is very good kit. The 45/1.8 would be great lens for portraits and low-light situations. And the Panny 12-35 is a really good pro-grade lens.



Thanks Bobby. I take it you are talking about the fixed aperture f2.8 lens though ? Not the variable ?




Jul 24, 2017 at 04:15 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Correct. Not aware that there is a cheapo variable-aperture 12-35.

You might want to look at the Olympus 12-50 kit lens - really cheap but still very good, with "macro" or close-focussing capability.

Frogfish wrote:
Thanks Bobby. I take it you are talking about the fixed aperture f2.8 lens though ? Not the variable ?



Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 04:21 PM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:17 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


bobbytan wrote:
Correct.





Oh dear. That's about 600 alone over there. Not an option ! So we're back to Steve's primes if the slower variable aperture lens isn't that hot.



Jul 24, 2017 at 04:19 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


bobbytan wrote:
Correct. Not aware that there is a cheapo variable-aperture 12-35.



Sorry it's the 12-32 mm / F 3.5-5.6 LUMIX G VARIO.




Jul 24, 2017 at 04:21 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


See my Edit re Only 12-50 kit lens. That lens is surprisingly good and under-rated.

Frogfish wrote:
Sorry it's the 12-32 mm / F 3.5-5.6 LUMIX G VARIO.





Jul 24, 2017 at 04:22 PM
gary0319
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


Frogfish wrote:
Thanks Bobby - I was hoping you'd chime in !

Yes the Pen-F is to expensive at 999 over there. And your DXO comparison link highlights the improvements between the M10 mk 1 and 2 that could them a lot (electronic shutter, 1/16,000 SS, dust cleaning, 100 vs 200 ISO and so on).

IBIS is going to be very important to him, shooting in plane and hotel room interiors, giving him a lot more leeway with regard to slower shutter speeds (and that 100 ISO) and meaning he can get away with slower lenses.

The Panasonic 12-35 looks to be very good
...Show more

I have had the LX100 for about 2 months now and one of the things I've come to appreciate is the ability of getting great pics in bright sunlight because of the higher shutter speeds of the LX. Some of my best images have been in bright sunlight with shutter speeds of over 1/10,000 sec. If you are used to those kinds of shutter speeds with your LX100, I think you would miss that on any camera that did not have a shutter speed max of 1/16,000.



Jul 24, 2017 at 05:54 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


I agree with Bobby that the Oly 12-50 kit lens is surprisingly good and the macro mode is nice. That said the real problem in my view with any M4/3rds zoom that starts at f/3.5 is that it is never at its best wide open and the minute you stop it down you run into diffraction, so you never get the full benefits of stopping down the lens because of the diffraction. I don't think there is any way around that problem with slow lenses on m4/3rds. So, my view is that the prime kit would be substantially better. I just looked and they ought to be able to get the Panny 14 for about 100 pounds and the Oly 25 f/1.8 for about 200 pounds so that ought to work with their budget. And the 14, 25, 45 kit is very nice on M4/3rds.


Jul 24, 2017 at 05:56 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


For around 300 you might be able to find a used PL 25/1.4 which is a sharp lens with nice rendering. The Only 25/1.8 is also a very nice lens for less money.


Jul 24, 2017 at 06:09 PM
you2
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


I'd go with a T1 or a om-10. Can't comment much on the Sony as I just don;'t know anything about it. The T1 is a bit easier to use than the olympus (not that either camera is very complicated). They have differences in features. If you went with the olympus i'm a fan of the 12-40 but that might be out of your budget. The 18-55 (for fuji) is pretty darn good unless you get a bad sample and is quite a bit less than the premium olympus lenses.
-
imho not worth getting a great body and not equally match lens but $$ can be an issue.
-
Also the panasonic bodies are not bad (but they lack ibis). However, they also can be quite a bit less expensive esp last year models.



Jul 24, 2017 at 07:22 PM
flash
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Oly, Fuji or Sony for my daughter ?


The 12-35 Vario should be more than fine for a blog, for goodness sake. I like primes just as much as the next guy but for 1024x800 pixel output?? The 45mm will be perfect for the portrait stuff.

Are they keeping the LX100? Are you saving a bit by buying used gear?

If so I'd see if they can stretch to an Olympus 9-18 (used??). Plus the 45mm. Keep the LX100 for the inbetweeners until they can afford something better.

Talk them into a very small Surui tripod. That's what'll take their photography to a different level.

Gordon



Jul 24, 2017 at 09:59 PM
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