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Archive 2017 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?

  
 
cambyses
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


I have been thinking of getting a compact FF camera for travels and for those impromptu shots. Basically something I can easily carry around everywhere and can get much better IQ than my iPhone. There are many personal (non-paid) occasions that I just feel too lazy to carry my DSLR and lenses, and, because of that, I feel like I am losing a lot of opportunities for good shots. I was thinking of getting a DF and pair it with my 58/1.4, or even one of my small Ai-S MF lenses but then I like to also have some basic video capability.

I have never been too happy with the performance (IQ, AF speed/accuracy, DR and low-light/high-ISO performance, etc.), of my compact small-sensor P&S cameras over the years (e.g., Canon Powrshot S95/S110, Panasonic Lumix LX series, Sony RX100, etc.) and I have often ended up not using them and instead reaching out for my DSLR's.

I have been reading about Leica Q for some time now, and have looked at a lot of sample images. And I feel like it would indeed serve my purpose well (though, whether it is worth the price is a totally different matter ).

So I was preparing myself to pull the trigger on a Leica Q, and then came the latest recent rumor about Nikon's mirrorless FF. That could be a fantastic camera, particularly if it supports F-mount.

So what would you do? Would you buy a Leica Q now, or would you wait for the Nikon mirrorless FF?




Jul 21, 2017 at 06:45 PM
Surfnsun
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


I understand the appeal of the Leica Q. It's a sexy little thing. But you need to ask yourself if being limited to 28mm is going to matter for your photography? I definitely wouldn't just sit around and wait for something that has no timeline for showing up. Plus, you might not even like what Nikon presents in a mirrorless body. So where does that leave you?

I would suggest possibly going with a Fuji X-T2 + 35 f/2. Or any of their lovely f/2 primes for that matter. Nice and compact with great image quality. This gives you the versatility of changing out lenses at a much more reasonable cost in a compact form. Anyway, that's my two cents...



Jul 21, 2017 at 10:17 PM
millsart
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Do you have anything you'd like to take pictures of this week, or next month, or can your photography needs wait until probably sometime next year, if at all ?

Who knows if a Nikon mirrorless will even show up ? Lots of folks waited for the 1" sensor compacts that never appeared even after being announced

Nikon mirrorless is just a rumor at this point

Then of course, do you buy the first version ? Will it be better to potentially wait another year for the MKII, which gets all the bugs out ?

Look at buyers of the Sony A7 and A7r when then went and dropped the A7II and A7rII with better grips, IBIS etc, for little to no real price increase, sometimes it pays to wait

Then again, if your waiting until Nikon gets mirrorless right, you might be missing out several years worth of shooting enjoyment you could start having today, with a known camera that exist, and that is quite nice

I've bought and sold the Q twice over, its pricey, but fantastic at what it does



Jul 21, 2017 at 11:46 PM
JohnK007
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


millsart wrote:
Nikon mirrorless is just a rumor at this point


Um, the president of the company confirmed it; that's no 'rumor'; it's a certainty.



Jul 22, 2017 at 12:03 AM
cambyses
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Thanks guys...

1) I can certainly wait, and keep shooting with my D4/D800E/D7K and my lenses as I have for the past few years. It is just that in some occasions I may not take my DSLRs and may thus lose some photo opportunities, be it travel shots, street shots, or just candids of our sons. For any planned photoshoot whether business or personal, I will obviously still use my DSLR setup.

2) At this point, I think Nikon mirrorless FF is a certainty and not just a rumor anymore. It is just a question of when, and also whether or not it will have F-mount, and of course, the price.

3) I do actually have high hopes for Nikon mirrorless FF. I think Nikon has waited long enough and, at the R&D and marketing expense of Sony and Fuji, as well as their own, they should know what works and what doesn't, and what the customers really want in a mirrorless FF.

4) Leica Q is pretty appealing indeed. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that if Nikon gets it right with their mirrorless FF body, it could put significant pressure on Leica prices, at least in the used market. In general, unlike glass, one loses a lot of money on camera bodies even when buying used. Leica bodies actually seem to hold their value better. But because Leica is pretty expensive to begin with, I'm afraid a hit mirrorless FF body from Nikon could cause my Leica Q to significantly drop in value. And if the Nikon body turns out to be F-mount compatible, flexibility in using my assortment of small prime lenses could be a big plus when compared with the fixed 28mm on the Leica Q.

Edited on Jul 22, 2017 at 01:36 AM · View previous versions



Jul 22, 2017 at 12:40 AM
sandy27000
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


I pulled the trigger on Fuji X-T2 just head of a vacation to Italy earlier this month, and am happy with the set up. I don't like the kit lens, so got their excellent 56mm f1.2 lens, and will get their 23mm and 35mm f1.4s to complete my lightweight set up. My wife used it most of our vacation, as I had my D5 in tow as well (classical issue of not trusting a new camera on its first outing). Worth having in the consideration set, particularly due to price:quality equation, even though the OP is looking for FF.


Jul 22, 2017 at 12:58 AM
mbphoto_2.8
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


@cambyses

did you ever see the Sony RX1R II?
It's a lot cheaper than the Leica Q, has a much better sensor and still the Leica prices went up slightly since the camera was released.

Even IF Nikon were to release a fixed lens full frame, it wouldn't affect Leica sales at all.


I've been lusting for a Q for some years now and finally gave up (money issues, because I could definitely live with 28mm on travels). I have my Fuji X-T10 with several lenses that I use for travel and I'm happy.



Jul 22, 2017 at 02:46 AM
Max Power
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


If you are cozy with a fixed lens 28mm compact, a used Coolpix A or a Ricoh GR I or II could be an aoption for a fraction of Leica money. Yes, it is DX rather than FF, but depending how you use or view the images, that may be good enough. I look at the Q samples online and think my Coolpix A could easily do as well. And, with the collapsing lenses, both are truly "compact".


Jul 22, 2017 at 09:49 AM
milkod2001
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


i would not wait for Nikon mirrorless if i were you. Nikon reps. only confirmed that they are working on it which very likely could mean that we won't be able to buy it sooner than in mid 2018. Also Nikon will come with first generation of mirrorless camera. Nikon has no expertise in this area, i don't expect any miracles.

Leica Q sounds like good option to go with right now but make sure 28mm fixed focal length is your most used. If not Sony 7Rii is your best bet, what you save on Leica would be enough to get 7Rii and some nice fancy Batis or Sony GM lens.



Jul 22, 2017 at 10:09 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Waiting for Nikon FF MILC will be awhile so I would not wait. There are a number choices for FF compacts but at a high cost entry. The Leica Q is excellent and so is the RXrII. To be honest I would even consider a used M9/M240 package. We have so many choices now it is hard to differentiate.

Like yourself when using some of smaller formats I end up picking up the D810/D750 just for the IQ, DR and AF.

The other question that needs to be asked is the 28mm FOV ideal. The Leica Q is costly, even at used pricing. Personally I love the 28mm FOV, but there many that don't and prefer the 35mm for general photography.

The A7rII is very good and it will very much depend on your lens selection. With fast lenses there is no real advantage but you have choices for slower lenses and more importantly the AF is not on par with DSLR's.

Personally I would look at a used D750 and 50/1.8. The form factor and size is great IMO. The IQ/DR is superb and has excellent high ISO performance. I have added a comparison in size and form factor A7rII/FE 55/1.8 and the D750/50 1.8. Also another comparison A7rII/FE 85/1.8 and D750/85/1.8G. The comparison is more dramatic when comparing the GM 85/1.4 to the 85/1.4G. The reality of size/weight is not always obvious.

Another shot below with the D750 and 50/1.8G

My wife Marisa loves photography too, so we have the Fuji X100F and XT2 alongside for traveling.

All said if you have the passion for the Leica Q go for it Have fun...

















Jul 22, 2017 at 06:41 PM
mbphoto_2.8
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


I'd wait another few weeks.

Would be a shame if Nikon released a full frame mirrorless for their 100th anniversary and you had jumped ship a month too soon.


I disagree with the notion that they don't have any experience. They had the Nikon 1 for quite some time now.

Olympus have shown that you don't necessarily need on sensor pdaf to produce reasonably quick focusing in a mirrorless.



So, I'm still hoping for a Nikon F-styled mirrorless fullframe with a new lens mount.
(An AF-capable adapter to F-mount is a must, but it should make use of the shorter flange of mirrorless.)


Alternatively, I'm open for a fixed focal length compact with 28mm. (Used a Fujica ST-901 with 28/3.5 for my holidays and loved it!)



Jul 23, 2017 at 03:04 AM
carlitos
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Yeah, Nikon has years of experience building "mirrorless" cameras. I have a 28Ti pocket film camera, full frame, AF 28mm lens - optical viewfinder, but with no mirror. 23 years after I bought it used, it still takes great pictures. That is what I expect from a Nikon "mirrorless" camera.

The issue, if it is an issue, is the EVF. Perhaps Nikon hasn't been satisfied with EVF's up to this point.

OLED's may change their POV.



Jul 23, 2017 at 09:10 AM
Danner
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


$4 thousand + for the Q is steep. If you have the bucks, I guess, but I'd get a lot more that a 28mm fixed lens camera if I was dropping that kind of money this week.


Jul 23, 2017 at 09:56 AM
notherenow
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


For that kind of money you could get a first generation A7R and the Sony FE 28 f2 and that combination is 25g heavier than the Leica Q and about 12mm longer about 14mm higher and 3mm narrower.

I can be separated for travel so the camera would be smaller and the lens could fit anywhere.

A7R has a similar sensor to your D800E at 36mp. You would still have a couple of thousand dollars left to buy other stuff.

The A7R isn't stabilized and can have issues with shutter shock (would it with a 28 f2?) and isn't for fast shooting.

The FE 28 f2 isn't the highest end lens but is still quite nice (never tried it but I have not seen very much wrong with it). Add the 55 1.8 FE Sony Zeiss and that might be all you want (and still have money left and that lens is excellent).

Even cheaper and the same size but varying by a few grams, the first gen A7 with the same lens also has a 24mp sensor like the Q. The A7 has better AF than the A7R though not as good as a DSLR for tracking AF.

A bit more (but still way under the Q) would be the A7s. Only 12mp and forget about tracking AF almost entirely but excellent at high ISO and video.

None of the first gen have IBIS (A7s doesn't really need it so much) but for video all have mic and headphones jacks, zebras and more for video. A7 and A7R video is ok though not pro quality. A7s is (when used by a video pro) and can do 4k via an external recorder but has about the best 1080 hull HD going plus they all do double duty with APSC modes.

The second gen Sony cameras would be better but dearer and would be more for a main system than a back up now I think and are all bigger and heavier.


If you have your heart set on the Leica and can afford it, then buy it as there is no real needed (it is a Leica) and they must be doing something right to sell as many as they do at prices way above what they are (applies to any real Leica for me). Maybe rent one?

I would wait a few more weeks and see what Nikon does at least at this time.
I am sure there will be a Nikon mirrorless before the end of next year but who knows what they will do to start? Maybe something without an EVF? or what mount they will use?

I went with Sony but only because they made what I wanted (FF mirrorless at a reasonable price that can adapt many lenses) in the A7 and have since added and now use as my main camera the A7s (I shoot a lot in low light).

If it was MY $4000 and I still used Nikon I would get the Nikon 19 f4 PC-E tilt shift lens and use the remaining money to buy a half decent mirrorless camera (APSC or M43) to try.



Edited on Jul 23, 2017 at 02:39 PM · View previous versions



Jul 23, 2017 at 02:29 PM
chez
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


JohnK007 wrote:
Um, the president of the company confirmed it; that's no 'rumor'; it's a certainty.


It's only obvious Nikon will enter back into the mirrorless game. But when, what and how good are all unknowns. Waiting for these answers could be years...and then by the time Nikon gets it right could be another few years.

I'd look at the hue assortment of mirrorless options today as you know what you are getting.



Jul 23, 2017 at 02:39 PM
chez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Pick up a used A7II, add the Sony 28 f2, 35 2.8 and 85 1.8 and you'll have a nice compact kit that delivers outstanding image quality.


Jul 23, 2017 at 02:45 PM
JohnK007
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


chez wrote:
It's only obvious Nikon will enter back into the mirrorless game. But when, what and how good are all unknowns. Waiting for these answers could be years...and then by the time Nikon gets it right could be another few years.


Nikon has got a lot more 'right' than any other manufacturer in the business. (More top-shelf cameras/prime lenses than any other.)

I don't think the wait is going to be 'years' ... but rather months.



chez wrote:
I'd look at the hue assortment of mirrorless options today as you know what you are getting.


You can do what you want.

A person can confuse himself with the (I think you meant) huGe assortment of options ... or they can take a step back, realize that most of the mirrorless offerings come from peripheral companies, and just wait for the leader in the other segment to drop a couple of real mirrorless gems into the marketplace.

The moment Nikon comes out with a top-shelf mirrorless, the lens options will make the Nikon-faithful the smarter group, compared to those who bought into a system with much fewer lens options.



Jul 23, 2017 at 04:08 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


cambyses wrote:
I have been thinking of getting a compact FF camera for travels and for those impromptu shots. Basically something I can easily carry around everywhere and can get much better IQ than my iPhone. There are many personal (non-paid) occasions that I just feel too lazy to carry my DSLR and lenses, and, because of that, I feel like I am losing a lot of opportunities for good shots. I was thinking of getting a DF and pair it with my 58/1.4, or even one of my small Ai-S MF lenses but then I like to also have some basic
...Show more

What Nikon FX mirrorless system

EBH



Jul 23, 2017 at 06:56 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


EB-1 wrote:
What Nikon FX mirrorless system

EBH


http://www.dpreview.com/news/9148147105/official-statement-nikon-currently-developing-new-mirrorless-cameras

Whether it will really be FX and whether or not it will work with F-mount lenses still rumored and very much TBD...



Jul 24, 2017 at 11:41 AM
low325
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Buy Leica Q now, or wait for Nikon's mirrorless FF?


Man, I love my Leica Q. 28mm of its combined size its just soooooooo convenient. I was out at wedding recently, just as a guest, and man..everybody loved just cheezing in front a small inconspicuous camera! (Folks even got weird in front of my honking 24 f1.4 and Df in past experiences)To top that, its got pretty fast AF and face detection, etc! ISO to 50K, but I max out at 6400 - (the Df high ISO capabilities is better) But jeez..i love love my Q. Here is a shot of my kids at the wedding f1.7.



still cant wait for Nikon to release something similar , but man...Leica glass just has that look, lol! oh and yes i do feel that much better having a red dot :P

back to size, one of these days i'll have to put my 28mm f2.8 mounted on my Df alongside my Q, no hood. But I think at this time, its a good to wait to see what Nikon will announce. It doesnt look like your strapped for cash with your current gear so you're in a good spot

Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 02:56 PM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2017 at 12:22 PM
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