Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Macro World Resource
  

FM Forums | Macro & Still Life | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

Archive 2017 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.

  
 
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
]
I don't take anyone who claims to know it all and that their precious is the only way seriously at all.


I don't claim to know it all, never have.

However, on my worst day, I can produce better macro images than what you've posted.

In the end, I am always open to listen to those who produce better images than I can ... and I know who these people are.

By contrast, I will always turn a deaf ear to self-admitted part-timers, who don't really try, who don't really know, and who admit (going into it) that their images 'aren't all that great.'

Impress me, and I will listen.

Tell me 'you haven't tried in years,' and post substandard images, and I will look for the delete button.

Fair enough?



Aug 11, 2017 at 03:50 PM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


JohnK007 wrote:
I don't claim to know it all, never have.

However, on my worst day, I can produce better macro images than what you've posted.

In the end, I am always open to listen to those who produce better images than I can ... and I know who these people are.

By contrast, I will always turn a deaf ear to self-admitted part-timers, who don't really try, who don't really know, and who admit (going into it) that their images 'aren't all that great.'

Impress me, and I will listen.

Tell me 'you haven't tried in years,' and post substandard images, and I will look for
...Show more

Again, since you seem to not be able to understand, this was JUST for proof of concept.

How about this, since you are so wonderful at it, how about YOU actually try it yourself.

Since I am so bad, I am sure I could take a WORSE photo than I posted using a MPE-65 if I used it alongside that one under the same circumstances.

This is not about ME and what I can do but is simply another option that others (not you of course) might LIKE to try.

No wonder you got banned.

Oh and I don't find your macro shots all that great either. That shot on your page you linked to is not that good especially for a "professional" but that is just my opinion. My excuse is I have not been doing this all that seriously (or at all), what YOUR excuse?

Nothing further to say to you.



Aug 11, 2017 at 03:57 PM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
Again, since you seem to not be able to understand, this was JUST for proof of concept.


Nope. Proof of mediocrity.

Proof of concept would be a superior image, not one where you already acknowledge is 'not that great.'

Get real for a second: who is going to follow the 'advise' of someone posting image that he himself admits are 'not all that great'?



notherenow wrote:
How about this, since you are so wonderful at it, how about YOU actually try it yourself.


You don't think I've tried extenders and adapters?

They're substandard.



notherenow wrote:
Since I am so bad, I am sure I could take a WORSE photo than I posted using a MPE-65 if I used it alongside that one under the same circumstances.

This is not about ME and what I can do but is simply another option that others (not you of course) might LIKE to try.


Not about me either. It's about the best tools, and means, for non MPE macro results.

You have only posted 'not that great' suggestions.



notherenow wrote:
No wonder you got banned.

Nothing further to say to you.


I got banned because I toyed with a venerated person of fragile ego.

It's okay if we don't speak again.

If you post something wonderful, I will be the first to acknowledge it. If you post more diffracted, yellow-tinted images ... offering 'advice' ... I will call you on it.

If you don't like criticism, either 1) produce exemplary images, or 2) don't post under the heading of 'advise.'

I think this is fair.



Aug 11, 2017 at 04:07 PM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


Another better shot today with the same combination.

Still out of reach of a tripod and could not have done anything other than a single shot.

Again, not showing my abilities but showing that greater than 1:1 variable macro is possible with this cheap set up.









Aug 11, 2017 at 10:17 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
Actually the correct term is "Macro focusing teleconverter" (that is what is written on one of mine).

I use macro converter simply because teleconverter generally means just the 2x (or 1.4x or even 3x) only ones and not the ones with a macro helicoid.

Of my three, the Pentax mount 2x Teleplus is the best (not sure who actually made it).

Kiron may actually make the Teleplus ones as I think they are the same as some of the Vivitar branded ones. There are some on Ebay now branded Kenko Teleplus but most are Teleplus (without reference to the maker).

I was wrong
...Show more

What a pile of crap!

There are some people in this world who cannot be helped.

Harold



Aug 12, 2017 at 12:36 AM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
There are some people in this world who cannot be helped.

Harold


I agree on that at least!

So what is incorrect?

It IS called a "macro focusing teleconverter"

Your opinion on Kiron is just that an opinion (as is mine).

Happy shooting to you too!



Aug 12, 2017 at 01:50 AM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
It IS called a "macro focusing teleconverter"


My point was that limiting a search to those terms would miss many more, probably including better ones.

"Macro" on a piece of photographic galssware means "buy me". The majority of "macro" lenses only do 1:4.

notherenow wrote:
Your opinion on Kiron is just that an opinion (as is mine).


No. Based on decades of experience (myself and others) and on comparisons (tripod, anti-shock and international standard test chart) and various data charts. My Kiron 105 (aka Vivitar Series 1) was found to be better than my Leica Elmarit 60mm macro. I still carry Kiron primes and TCs in my bag..

The Olympus 4/3 50mm f2 macro has a stellar reputation, and does a little better than the Kiron but it does not have the working distance for the more-active subjects, although it is the first automatic macro lens I have used much on digital.

Harold



Aug 12, 2017 at 03:12 AM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
Another better shot today with the same combination.

Still out of reach of a tripod and could not have done anything other than a single shot.

Again, not showing my abilities but showing that greater than 1:1 variable macro is possible with this cheap set up.



No one disputing that there aren't many ways of going beyond 1:1.

The point isn't to confuse someone with 'every possible' option, the point is to lead the O/P to the best solution possible.

Since the thread topic is "Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1," my assumption is that the O/P was speaking of field use (as opposed to stdio), and since Nikon is what I shoot in the field, specifically, with some pretty clean results, I feel I am qualified to answer the question.

I have put a lot more thought, time, and trial-and-error into my macro shooting than many ... whereas you shoot Sony, and apparently are walking around 'taking macro snapshots' for the first time in years ... posting sub-optimal photographs that reflect your lack of time, effort (and macro experience) ... and then you're offering your token efforts as 'advise.'

Please realize there are many members of this forum who shoot exquisite macro images ... who have a ton of experience ... and who have world class macro rigs ... and to whom I (and anyone else) would stop and listen to their perspective. Even if I don't adopt what they're doing, I will still profit from understanding their thought process .... and the motives behind what they're doing ... and seeing their setups ... because they're posting the truly sublime results that reflect their efforts.

So when I see some guy come on here, who doesn't shoot much macro, who self-admittedly 'doesn't have the patience' to strive for optimal results, and who then posts sub-optimal images that he himself admits "aren't all that great" ... do you really expect any seasoned photographer to stop what they're doing and follow your 'advice'?

I am not trying to be mean, but you're just not being realistic. The image you just posted isn't even composed to the subject's body shape, and (while fairly clear) it is badly diffracted, and it sports the kind of 'yellowish cast' that prompts me either to hit my delete button ... or to utilize my white balance feature in Lightroom.

If we can get back to the thread topic, beyond 1:1 with Nikon, a person can get the Laowa 60mm 2x, but using the right Nikkor AI-S zoom can get you that, and beyond 2:1, with better lens craftsmanship, and more overall field versatility.

Using an adapter, or an extender, is always a compromise. No one uses them unless they have to.

A person can stack lenses-on-lenses too, but this is a PITA, adds weight + a level of awkwardness you don't need, and is sub-optimal also.

A person can buy the cheapest Series E Nikkor lens too ... but why not just get a TRULY GOOD lens, that reverses?

In fact, I am right now rubbing my chin about upgrading to a Zeiss Milvus lens (35mm for ~1.8x-2x) ... and the Zeiss Distagon T* (25mm for 2.8-3x) to see how these work for the studio shots I get. (The Zeisses for Canon do not have an aperture control ring, whereas the Zeisses for Nikon do, the latter thereby allowing you to still control the aperture when you reverse.)

The Zeiss Otus 28 has too big a front filter (and optic) to reverse, as do the other Zeiss lenses (15mm, 21mm) ... but Nikkor's best AI-S lenses, reversed, are more than sufficient to get optimal results. They also can be used in their intended capacity as wides and are thus a true pleasure to bring in the field: small, light, made to the highest standards, very capable, highly-versatile.

Anyway, not trying to rain on your parade, but just trying to show the difference between 'another' way ... and a much better way.



Aug 12, 2017 at 04:00 AM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


JohnK007 wrote:
No one disputing that there aren't many ways of going beyond 1:1.

The point isn't to confuse someone with 'every possible' option, the point is to lead the O/P to the best solution possible.

Since the thread topic is "Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1," my assumption is that the O/P was speaking of field use (as opposed to stdio), and since Nikon is what I shoot in the field, specifically, with some pretty clean results, I feel I am qualified to answer the question.

I have put a lot more thought, time, and trial-and-error into my macro shooting than many ...
...Show more

I thought you were not responding to me.

I have no intention of any discussion with you.




Aug 12, 2017 at 06:56 AM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
My point was that limiting a search to those terms would miss many more, probably including better ones.

"Macro" on a piece of photographic galssware means "buy me". The majority of "macro" lenses only do 1:4.

No. Based on decades of experience (myself and others) and on comparisons (tripod, anti-shock and international standard test chart) and various data charts. My Kiron 105 (aka Vivitar Series 1) was found to be better than my Leica Elmarit 60mm macro. I still carry Kiron primes and TCs in my bag..

The Olympus 4/3 50mm f2 macro has a stellar reputation, and does a little better
...Show more

I actually agree on limiting the search.

I wasn't actually looking for one the first time as I have three and no need for any further macro gear.

I also suggest making a search as broad as possible.

Hence, if looking for a Nikon specific one of these, I would start with "2x macro Nikon".

I probably wouldn't limit it to Nikon and would just search "2x macro" if after one of these.

Otherwise I usually just go "lens" and maybe some added term to get a bit closer and look up ending soonest.

As for the Kiron thing, again, while I like Kiron gear, I don't fully agree.
The Kiron made Vivitar 28 f2 (I had two of them) was actually quite a nice lens but it was nowhere near as good as most 50mm lenses which is why I prefer a decent 50mm lens reversed on the teleplus MC7 over the 28mm bare reversed (plus have the luxury of it being variable AND reversible for greater range).

The lens had pretty bad distortion and was also subject to stuck blades (one of mine had stuck blades).

So while I have nothing against Kiron generally, I disagree about them being the best.

I also preferred some Tamron adaptall lenses to some of those Kiron lenses but that is just my opinion.

I have been using this stuff for decades as well. I have not been using my macro gear LATELY, it doesn't mean I don't know how to use it and didn't use it previously.

Macro is only a minor interest to me these days and most of the time I don't want greater than 1:1.

My main macro lens now is a Sigma 150 2.8 APO which I find quite useful though I also have an old Sigma 180 5.6 (that only goes to 1:2 bare) that I can not use currently as I sold my A mount adapter.

The Sigma 150 also makes a decent AF tele lens on M43 with a Kipon smart adapter as well as a useful macro lens on my FF Sony.

I have the three of these 2x/3x macro focus teleconverters as I used to use them quite a bit with various lenses including some quite nice primes (especially the Pentax 50 1.2 K that seemed to get a bit more magnification).

I have bellows units sitting around too NOW as well as extension tubes and generally lots of old gear I no longer (or hardly ever now) use.


These days I prefer just using a couple of my better Sony AF lenses with extension tubes unless I want to use the Sigma 150.

There are lots of good choices and what works for one isn't necessarily the best for others.

That goes for both cameras and lenses.

For instance, having owned a reasonable amount of Nikon gear, I don't agree with some here about Nikon lenses being the best though of course, some are.

I keep a Nikon 50 1.8 as a back up 50 as it is one of my better cheap 50s just not the "best", likewise I liked the Nikon 35 1.4 AI when I had it but there are better lenses (too "veiled" was the term used for it a few years ago). I keep a Nikon 85 1.8 but it is way down the list of my 85mm lenses (frankly, I keep the Nikon because it would sell for very little as the outer condition is atrocious even if the glass is ok)

Others will have different preferences.

Again, ALL I have done is suggest a way of getting what the OP wanted that everyone seemed to indicate was not possible- IE a way of getting variable macro greater than 1:1.

Are there better macros? Of course there are but at the price I think it is extremely good (or at least can be given the right lenses and circumstances).




Aug 12, 2017 at 07:17 AM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
I actually agree on limiting the search.

I wasn't actually looking for one the first time as I have three and no need for any further macro gear.

I also suggest making a search as broad as possible.

Hence, if looking for a Nikon specific one of these, I would start with "2x macro Nikon".

I probably wouldn't limit it to Nikon and would just search "2x macro" if after one of these.


You just don't get it! There is no technically different "macro" version of a teleconverter. By including it you probably exclude most of the TCs listed. They all do EXACTLY the same, cut out the outer part of the image circle and expand the inner part, hence the reduction in brightness.

As for stuck diaphragm. Yes, one of my Kiron 105s had that but only at full aperture. I never let it open up, simple on an adapter.

Harold



Aug 12, 2017 at 07:36 AM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
You just don't get it! There is no technically different "macro" version of a teleconverter. By including it you probably exclude most of the TCs listed. They all do EXACTLY the same, cut out the outer part of the image circle and expand the inner part, hence the reduction in brightness.

As for stuck diaphragm. Yes, one of my Kiron 105s had that but only at full aperture. I never let it open up, simple on an adapter.

Harold


The one on the left is a conventional Teleconverter with no macro helicoid (if not a brilliant one) .

The one on the right is a macro Teleconverter and in one pic with the helicoid at full macro extension and in the other retracted with it as a "2x" teleconverter.

I could not do this demonstration with my 3x version as the helicoid is internal and it doesn't get any longer.

My posts here are about the one on the right with macro focusing helicoid.














Aug 12, 2017 at 07:56 AM
Rob Tracy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


That's a neat device. Especially neat for $19 used on Amazon. I found a good review here. http://makingnottaking.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-vivitar-2x-macro-focusing.html




Harold


The one on the left is a conventional Teleconverter with no macro helicoid (if not a brilliant one) .

The one on the right is a macro Teleconverter and in one pic with the helicoid at full macro extension and in the other retracted with it as a "2x" teleconverter.

I could not do this demonstration with my 3x version as the helicoid is internal and it doesn't get any longer.

My posts here are about the one on the right with macro focusing helicoid.






Aug 12, 2017 at 08:32 AM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
The one on the left is a conventional Teleconverter with no macro helicoid (if not a brilliant one) .

The one on the right is a macro Teleconverter and in one pic with the helicoid at full macro extension and in the other retracted with it as a "2x" teleconverter.

I could not do this demonstration with my 3x version as the helicoid is internal and it doesn't get any longer.

My posts here are about the one on the right with macro focusing helicoid.



I get it now! A x2 TC with an integral helicoid extension tube. I assume that helicoids are not readily available in Canon mount so it might be worthwhile for Canon users. Of course, the device loses its value for precise magnifications when you have to crop images. You need a very steady hand, when framing, to not need to crop.

Also, the selected magnifications must only work for the lense focused at minimum focus distance.

I use up to two helicoids (M42) in a setup for exteme macro where I have no other helicoid for focusing/magnification, as with a reversed enlarger lens. Otherwise, racking back and forth sorts the framing.

Harold



Aug 12, 2017 at 10:22 AM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


Just an extra piece of information:

I understand that Kiron (Lester Dine) was set up by a group of lens designers who had left Nikon.

(Venus Lens/Laowa have a similar origin).

Harold



Aug 12, 2017 at 10:54 AM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
I thought you were not responding to me.

I have no intention of any discussion with you.


Fair enough and it will save me time as well.

I will let the pictures you post either affirm, or refute, your methodology.



Aug 12, 2017 at 11:10 AM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


e6filmuser wrote:
I get it now! A x2 TC with an integral helicoid extension tube. I assume that helicoids are not readily available in Canon mount so it might be worthwhile for Canon users. Of course, the device loses its value for precise magnifications when you have to crop images. You need a very steady hand, when framing, to not need to crop.

Also, the selected magnifications must only work for the lense focused at minimum focus distance.

I use up to two helicoids (M42) in a setup for exteme macro where I have no other helicoid for focusing/magnification, as with a reversed enlarger
...Show more

Yes, the magnifications are (I believe) for a 50mm lens but even then from my experience using a half dozen or so that no two 50mm lenses are the same..

You do need a steady hand using it in the field and especially with a faster lens than 50mm or if using a lens flipped on it but it is just something to consider and just another option.



Aug 12, 2017 at 01:24 PM
e6filmuser
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


notherenow wrote:
Yes, the magnifications are (I believe) for a 50mm lens but even then from my experience using a half dozen or so that no two 50mm lenses are the same..

You do need a steady hand using it in the field and especially with a faster lens than 50mm or if using a lens flipped on it but it is just something to consider and just another option.


That extension looks like 25mm which would be for a 50mm.

Harold




Aug 12, 2017 at 01:45 PM
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.




The one on the left is a conventional Teleconverter with no macro helicoid (if not a brilliant one) .

The one on the right is a macro Teleconverter and in one pic with the helicoid at full macro extension and in the other retracted with it as a "2x" teleconverter.

I could not do this demonstration with my 3x version as the helicoid is internal and it doesn't get any longer.

My posts here are about the one on the right with macro focusing helicoid.





Thanks for that review. I have not seen that one before.

I used to pour all over the internet looking for those sort of things a few years ago.

That sums things up quite well but for this thread, the added bonus is that you can reverse a lens ONTO this thing.

At around $50 total (if you are lucky) or not too much more for a lens, 2x converter and reversing ring, well I think it is a bargain and as the article says, will depend on the lens used.

The FD one would be more use to Canon users if they could change the mount. I don't know if there are any EF mount versions (not something I need as much as I like EF lenses).


Aug 12, 2017 at 01:57 PM
JohnK007
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Macro from Canon to Nikon beyond 1:1.


For those looking for Nikon super-macro solutions, Thomas Shahan just tweeted about receiving the new, Chinese Zhongyi Mitakon 20mm F2 4.5x Super Macro.

It is not a zoom, but a straight 4.5x optic, and it's not just for Nikon users, but Canon EF, Nikon F, Sony FE, Sony Alpha, Pentax K, Sony E, Micro Four Thirds, Fuji X mounts. Shahan is using it for Pentax.

Looks more refined than the Laowa ... almost like a Nikkor industrial lens. Will be interested in Shahan's review.

It's so cheap, at $200, that I think will order one for myself and do my own review.



Aug 12, 2017 at 03:01 PM
1       2      
3
       4       end




FM Forums | Macro & Still Life | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.