Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
  

Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - t...
  
 
mdude85
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


Craig Gillette wrote:
There is no small claims. It's federal. It's typically worth more when timely registration has occurred. If you haven't waited too long, it may still be possible to take advantage of the better penalty situation but registration is a must before you could do anything in court.


It depends on the claim -- you can sue for unauthorized use of a photo in a state small claims court.

And to those people concerned about "burning bridges" -- why would the OP want to work with this newspaper again? If they lifted the photos once, they are likely to do it again.



Jul 19, 2017 at 02:30 PM
Mikehit
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


I believe those comments were as much about how it may affect the relationship between his wife's dance troupe and the publication.


Jul 19, 2017 at 02:38 PM
voidsherpa
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


mogud wrote:
IMHO, burning bridges with threatening letters, attorneys and copyright infringement suits might be a regrettable action in the future.



I'd agree with this, that level of hoopla isn't worth it over a couple hundred bucks. Even if you don't plan on actually getting business through them (who would, it's a paper) it's a small world.

mogud wrote:
My friendly advice is to send the editor a letter and ask him to acknowledge your photographs with a photo credit if your work is published again.




Going to disagree with this, simple acknowledgement w/ photo credit is too little and too late. There needs to be monetary value since they are profiteering off of the work. Again I would simple send them an invoice at your current market rates and expect them not to pay it.




Jul 19, 2017 at 03:04 PM
Craig Gillette
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


While ASMP (and maybe others?) suggests one might have a small claims contracts possibility, copyright infringement is exclusively federal. There was no contract here so it's hard to argue they didn't follow the contract.

It's a well known problem that many copyright infringements don't have the kind of value that supports litigation, let alone litigation in the federal courts and that perhaps some form of "small claims" court is needed. But current small claims courts are almost never going to be of use in an issue like this.



Jul 19, 2017 at 03:27 PM
mdude85
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


Craig Gillette wrote:
While ASMP (and maybe others?) suggests one might have a small claims contracts possibility, copyright infringement is exclusively federal. There was no contract here so it's hard to argue they didn't follow the contract.


Pretty much all small claims courts (ranging from city to county to state) have different statement forms that usually allow the plaintiff to describe in their own words the reason for the claim. So it doesn't have to be a breach of contracts or copyright infringement claim (the latter being federal). Anyone can argue in a small claims court that their copyright was infringed as further justification for their claim (for instance, evidence that the photo belongs to them), it's just that the small claims court lacks the juridiction to decide a case specifically of copyright infringement.



Jul 20, 2017 at 05:47 PM
Daniel Smith
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


Formally registered images put you in the drivers seat.
Did they remove your Copyright information when they published the images?
If it was there and they took it out/cropped it out you are in a different league with respect to any defense they can cook up.

Is it worth the pressure your wife will get for you to go after this one?



Jul 22, 2017 at 01:35 AM
gschlact
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


I'll pose a question with no intent to stir the hornet nest... I truly always try to find the angle in copyright law that supposrts the photographer.

It is my understand that Fair Use includes Editorial or Social Commentary use of copyright material does Not require approval, as it provides 'value' to the general public. As such no remuneration or contract is required either. (You can search via google here in the USA.) Most familiar with the copyright law acknowledge this, and as such a true newspaper article is editorial use and the photos augment that story.

I know newspapers pay for photos, but is it simply to be provide access in the first place? Why else do/would they pay if they can get access to a relevant photo for editorial use without worry for copyright?






Jul 22, 2017 at 04:48 AM
c.d.embrey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


The free publicity the newspaper is providing is worth more than your photos. The newspaper is not making any profit from your photos. If the article was dropped from the newspaper, no-one except you and your wife would noticeóno-one cares what story is in the Lifestyle column this week.

In the real world the dance troupe would pay a photographer for shooting publicity photos. Than the dance troupe's publicist would give the photos to the newspaper. A quid pro quo ("something for something" or "this for that" in Latin), aka free photos for free publicity.

Taking photos from FB is kinda tacky, but not checking an e-mail account in a timely fashon is unprofessional.



Jul 22, 2017 at 06:28 AM
thenoilif
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


c.d.embrey wrote:
The free publicity the newspaper is providing is worth more than your photos. The newspaper is not making any profit from your photos. If the article was dropped from the newspaper, no-one except you and your wife would noticeóno-one cares what story is in the Lifestyle column this week.

In the real world the dance troupe would pay a photographer for shooting publicity photos. Than the dance troupe's publicist would give the photos to the newspaper. A quid pro quo ("something for something" or "this for that" in Latin), aka free photos for free publicity.

Taking photos from FB is kinda
...Show more

This may or may not be true but it's not really the topic though. As a publisher, it is required by law that they obtain the proper authorization from the creator of the content that they choose to publish. The same thing could be applied to the written portion of the article. They could just cut a paste an article from another website and post it as their own on theirs but that would open them up to litigation.

But as far as your specific comment, the article online can generate revenue for the newspaper when people click on the article. The photographs could prompt people to click on the article.





Jul 22, 2017 at 06:43 AM
Michael White
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


since he sent an email requesting permission shows that he understands that he needs it. I would print up and invoice at you standard rates for what photos he uses, add in a delayed payment penalty for the first 30 days the double the penalty for the next 30 one for the next double the previous penalty date it the date the article was published then send three copies one to the accounting dept,one to the editor in chief and three to the writer. inclose a not saying that they were aware they needed your permission but proceeded with it so you are returning the favor by billing them likewise but if the refuse to submit payment due you will proceed with legal action and remind them they requested permission but you never granted it so they know what they were doing was copyright infringement. also inform your lawyer. hope this helps


Jul 22, 2017 at 07:43 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Craig Gillette
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


gschlact wrote:
I'll pose a question with no intent to stir the hornet nest... I truly always try to find the angle in copyright law that supposrts the photographer.

It is my understand that Fair Use includes Editorial or Social Commentary use of copyright material does Not require approval, as it provides 'value' to the general public. As such no remuneration or contract is required either. (You can search via google here in the USA.) Most familiar with the copyright law acknowledge this, and as such a true newspaper article is editorial use and the photos augment that story.

I know newspapers pay for
...Show more

Uses like this would not support the photographers. They (media) wouldn't pay if they could simply use other people's work for "editorial" applications. There is no "value to the public" aspect to fair use. There are 4 factors taken into consideration. In this case, the first factor? Purpose and character of the use? It was commercial - used by a newspaper trying to make a profit/running a business. As opposed to a fourth grade project on "sports." Second and third factors, photographs of a dance troupe. They used the complete image(s). Fourth factor? Effect of the use on the value or the work. They used it without paying for it. Their own typical business operations are to pay for work. There would be no value if end users could simply use anything they wanted.

No. Fair use provides value to the public as in not having to pay for a product? No. Where would "you" stop? It's yours? I want to use it, I get value from it, especially if free. Your car, camera, land?



Jul 28, 2017 at 04:43 PM
rw11
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


OTOH, public interest seems to be a factor of interest to at least some courts (and none of the doctrine has much of a statutory anchor anyway)

news value can increase the likelihood that a use is a fair use:
- Diebold, 337 F. Supp. at 1203 (it "is hard to imagine a subject the discussion of which could be more in the publicís interestĒ)
- Norse v. Henry Holt & Co., 847 F. Supp. 142, 147 (N.D. Cal. 1994) ("the public benefits from the additional knowledge that Morgan provides about William Burroughs and other writers of the same era").

anyway, yer on yer own!

hire an attorney who specializes in this area before leaving your house



Jul 28, 2017 at 07:14 PM
RobertLynn
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


You're kind of burned. You can fight it but what's the point? Your excuse is your wife has 60K emails? What's she do that she has 60K emails that she can't respond to an email? Sounds like it's not a big deal to you, if you're that busy.

Not diminishing it, but you're really not going to win anything spectacular.



Aug 03, 2017 at 03:42 AM
Paul Mo
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


JohnBrose wrote:
It depends if you want to have anything to do with the newspaper in the future-if you don't then pursue it, if you ever think they will benefit you or your wife in any way, I would not bother other than maybe mention it in a cordial email or phone call. You could also just ask to be featured in an article or similar type of advertising trade.


Sensible.



Aug 07, 2017 at 07:27 AM
ctgoldwing
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


rw11 wrote:
add interest

to really make them pay attention pay an attorney $100 to write a demand letter

you can file a suit in small claims court also which will be really bad publicity for them


I have run into this a few times before. I write a non confrontational but firm letter with an invoice and cc: atty XYZ

I never actually copy my attorney - but they don't know that.



Aug 09, 2017 at 02:22 PM
mdude85
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


c.d.embrey wrote:
The free publicity the newspaper is providing is worth more than your photos. The newspaper is not making any profit from your photos. If the article was dropped from the newspaper, no-one except you and your wife would noticeóno-one cares what story is in the Lifestyle column this week.


That's a curious logic. How is it possible that no one cares what's in the Lifestyle column, and yet the photos in the Lifestyle column provide valuable publicity for the photographer?



Aug 09, 2017 at 08:24 PM
mdude85
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


gschlact wrote:
It is my understand that Fair Use includes Editorial or Social Commentary use of copyright material does Not require approval, as it provides 'value' to the general public. As such no remuneration or contract is required either. (You can search via google here in the USA.) Most familiar with the copyright law acknowledge this, and as such a true newspaper article is editorial use and the photos augment that story.

I know newspapers pay for photos, but is it simply to be provide access in the first place? Why else do/would they pay if they can get access to a relevant
...Show more

It's mostly a matter of tradition -- newspapers pay for photos because up until recently it hasn't been that easy to get one's hands on decent photos of a newsworthy event. As a result, photography contracts (whether it be with freelancers, staff or stock agencies) are usually baked into how the newsmedia does business. As you can see, some smaller papers are starting to subvert this by taking photos from the Internet, which is a gray area. As of now there is still more value in buying good photos, or requesting to use them for free, than simply taking them.

I believe a commenter above said that "There is no 'value to the public' aspect to fair use." While determining whether a use is 'fair use' does not hinge on the particular work's value to the public, nonetheless, the entire concept of fair use (as it relates to editorial use, at least) is principled on the idea that creators can use certain copyrighted works fairly because dissemination of copying of those works is in the public's interest.



Aug 09, 2017 at 08:38 PM
Tony Rogers
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


glort wrote:
Whatever you do, you need to realise that the theft of the images was deliberate and planned. The guy thumbed his nose and disrespected you by thinking his wants and self interest was more important than paying you the basic respect deserved.
Anyone says Fk you by stealing from me and I find out, I will seek the fullest remedy I can

These scabs of people work like this all the time knowing in many cases they will get away with it. They would call the cops and go on with all sorts of moral high ground if you stole a
...Show more

"a deliberate planned theft" where the paper asked permission first? Hardly.

Seems more likely that they asked permission, got no reply before deadline, and ran the story with the images, on the basis that no one had said no.




Aug 09, 2017 at 09:00 PM
c.d.embrey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


mdude85 wrote:
That's a curious logic. How is it possible that no one cares what's in the Lifestyle column, ...


The Lifestyle column was about his wife's dance troupe. It could just as well been about a skateboarding dog. BTW there is a good chance that more readers would have been more interested in a skateboarding dog story.

...and yet the photos in the Lifestyle column provide valuable publicity for the photographer?

Did it really He seems to be very upset about getting this valuable publicity from photos he thinks were stolen from him.

Me, I think it's a tempest in a teapot. YMMV.



Aug 09, 2017 at 10:21 PM
glort
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Newspaper Used 4-6 of my images without my permission - thoughts?


Tony Rogers wrote:
"a deliberate planned theft" where the paper asked permission first? Hardly.

Seems more likely that they asked permission, got no reply before deadline, and ran the story with the images, on the basis that no one had said no.



I don't know what you call theft but I'm pretty certain that the law in most any part of the world would call that exactly theft.

The fact they asked permission showed they knew they needed it and then running the story without it was the theft. It was also belligerence and arrogance on their part in putting their own wants and desires before anyone elses.

The ramification of this could have been much more significant. Certain cultures here do not allow photographs of deceased people to be shown or published for a certain time.
If one of the people in the pic had passed away and the paper ran the pics, that would be a HUGE cultural insult to these people and cause all sorts of problems in their belief system as what may happen to the spirit of that person.

It's not a can't happen scenario, it did happen a few weeks ago here.
The significance to the family was overwhelming and rather devastating. I'm sure the family could bring a significant lawsuit and here it would be a certain win.

Just seems to be the way the world is now. Look after yourself and stuff everyone else.





Aug 10, 2017 at 10:12 AM
1      
2
       3       end






FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password