Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Wedding Resource List
  

FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

Wedding photography without the album and post processing?
  
 
rek101
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


If a client is competent using photoshop/lightroom and probably wouldn't mind doing his own PP, would a wedding photographer be willing to simply turn over files to a harddrive after the ceremony and charge a day rate?

I'm sorry for my ignorance on such topics. I heard that most of the work of shooting a wedding happens after the ceremony so I wondered if saving the photographer this work might be a way to save the client money.




Jul 12, 2017 at 12:56 AM
Ziffl3
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Well.... some shooters who do not know the craft would most likely relie on post processing to 'fix' stuff.
Shooters who put the time in to learn the craft understanding getting it right in camera greatly reduces back end time and work.

For me... shooting/covering a wedding - the client is getting the experience to work with me.
Plus my vision on how I see a wedding. This also includes the finished product, the edited images.

Back to your thought.... I can see control issues with client.
A client like this is missing the bigger picture and the beauty of hiring a pro wedding shooter.

But there are no rules stopping this from happening.


-Mark





Jul 12, 2017 at 01:20 AM
glort
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?



While it will no doubt get screams of protest and and innuendo, I would and have done it.

No doubt there will be a lot of concern about "reputation" and theroy if the client does not do a perfect job and such like concerns.
I have been doing this ( as well as conventional coverage's) since the film days and NEVER had a problem. I have made a lot of money from it however because other shooters would not do it and wanted to force they way on the client who wasn't having it.

The one thing I would recommend is you do edit a few of the best pics and probably even supply some quality prints as a "bonus" in the deal.
This gives the client a standard to compare to.
If it turns out they make a dog breakfast of it ( and I don't see why they would if the images are done properly in the first place) then they can see the potential of the shots to start. By getting in first, -if- there is any question about the pics, You are on the front foot having shown the quality of the images already, not on the backfoot trying to defend them.

This would also put pay to the " Reputation" argument I am sure you are going to get in that they can't blame you if they do horrible pictures ( by whoever's reckoning that would be by) because you have already dispelled and proven the quality of the work.
I would also suggest providing 2 hard copies (USB) of the images rather than just uploading/ drop boxing whatever.

I learned the value of supplying a "Proof" first time out with a shoot and burn I did for an associate. I simply handed over the film with a recommendation of a lab he didn't follow.
He later told me the pics were not what they were expecting and when I saw them, I knew why. I had a roll done at my lab and gave them to him and said that's what they should look like, take them back and have them done again or take them else where. On using the lab I recommended, he was stoked.

From then on I always handed over a set of prints with the uncut negs and never had a problem again. On occasion I would get people asking me to recommend a lab but they always knew what the pictures should look like to start with. Now when I do this I always do some edited ( not that it takes much) files and print them so the clients can see what they have got and will compare any reproduction or retouching of the images to that. I never get any complaints but plenty of thanks and compliments and the unexpected prints further build on the goodwill I have created and are appreciated. It's a small thing that has Huge value from many aspects.

I would also suggest clarifying if the client wants Jpegs, raw or both just to avoid any misunderstandings there.

In reality, I see little difference between this and the current trend of just uploading files. In this case the clients gets to have them edited the way they want, not the whatever the shooters artistic vision is.
If I hire a shooter for my daughters wedding, it will be the very same thing I ask for.

I'm sure you will get a lot of people against this but at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with it nor any golden rule you are breaking even if it may not be what everyone would do.
It's simply a personal choice and one I think you would do well with in accommodating the clients wishes.



Jul 12, 2017 at 02:54 AM
jecottrell
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


rek101 wrote:
...would a wedding photographer be willing to simply turn over files...


I don't think a competent one with a brand worthy of paying for would.


rek101 wrote:
...might be a way to save the client money.


The easiest way to save a client money is to send them to someone that's cheaper.

The goal, is to get the client to spend as much money as possible while expending as little effort as possible and feel truly satisfied after it's all over with. Your questions are direct evidence of a really poor business model.



It sounds like you have a wedding coming up and you're trying to figure out how to get a photographer on the cheap?



Jul 12, 2017 at 02:56 AM
Depth of Feel
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Those of you who don't think consumers know their way around lightroom are sleeping in the last decade.

I have a few clients now each year asking for the raws. At this point I don't care if they have them. If they want to save me 15-25 hours of work for $300 discount I'm totally happy. If they later decide they want me to edit some photos I would make double what their discount is or more. If they want to spend a few hundred for files they will look at for 1 hour and then never look at again awesome.

Their wedding is not some personal sacred art project or opus of my creativity. It's their wedding. If they want the junk they can have it. I've never had anyone thank me after the fact for them, and I tell that to everyone who decided to write me a check for them. Win/ win(lose). I win at least.



Jul 12, 2017 at 03:32 AM
glort
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


jecottrell wrote:
I don't think a competent one with a brand worthy of paying for would.


Hahahaha!

I think that's a bit of an over simplification although a common internet mentality.

I don't have a brand as I haven't promoted for wedding work for some time. Still get more weddings than I want sometimes through WOM. Picked up one on Sunday through a girl who is my contact in a club I shoot T&I for. She is bridesmaid for her best friends wedding and booked me for the job. All my work comes that way now an I'm still shooting more weddings a year than some people do selectively that are pushing their "Brand".

I have shot a lot of weddings and while I'd never think I was a great shooter, the fact is I have a load of cards, notes and emails thanking me for what I did so my clients were satisfied with what I did for them and I'm good enough in that regard.

I don't think the fact I don't have a brand or are even known in the industry any more means I can't do a decent job and make my clients very happy with what I do for them. I know some guys that have got out of the game but I'd still have them shoot for me tomorrow.
They would likely be very happy to do a job like this where they went out, worked their long acquired magic, got paid and went back to their normal routine tomorrow without having to frig around with all the behind the scenes stuff. Like me, that bores the shit out of them and we see it as the downside to the job.
Some people like to be photographers that take pictures and some don't mind being photo editors as well.


rek101 wrote:
...might be a way to save the client money.


The easiest way to save a client money is to send them to someone that's cheaper.

Saving them money may be making yourself affordable and making money off them rather than handing the income to someone else.

The goal, is to get the client to spend as much money as possible while expending as little effort as possible and feel truly satisfied after it's all over with.

Basically true. I have found that on the jobs I have done like this, the hourly rate and overall ease of completing the job is far better than doing the conventional jobs. Often these sort of requests come from limited coverage or 2nd weddings so on occasion I have been able to do 2 on the one day making it a way more profitable date than with a conventional job.

Being 2nd weddings, "saving them money" has very clearly not been about the cost per se, but rather them saving money on things they didn't want that other shooters were inflexible on and insisted on including.


It sounds like you have a wedding coming up and you're trying to figure out how to get a photographer on the cheap?

Like I said, if my daughter were getting married,I'd be wanting a shooter to take the pics and let us do the rest.
It's EXACTLY what I had for my wedding. One of my mates who was and still is a top shooter took the pics and handed the film over. Easy for both of us. I'll do the same for my daughters wedding and it's not about cost.

I can assure you, nothing about my daughters wedding will be done on the cheap.
Her overly generous and well heeled grandfather who is intent on seeing her as happy as she can be while he's around to see it would make sure of that even if I didn't. She will have everything she wants and money will not be an issue. My father in law told my wife and I the same thing when we got married.

My daughter has been editing and playing around with pics since she was a child. No way in hell she will want someone elses edits and neither will I. It will be a 3 way effort on her album. We will do the edits and pic selection and my wife will do the album layout the way we want as she does with all our albums. If a shooter is not happy to take the pics and let us handle the rest, we'll find a shooter that is accommodating to our needs.




Jul 12, 2017 at 03:57 AM
rek101
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Thanks for the replies. I suppose there is a lot more to this than just the time savings. Seems like for the right situation, it might not be such a bad idea.


Jul 12, 2017 at 05:53 AM
BSPhotog
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


rek101 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I suppose there is a lot more to this than just the time savings. Seems like for the right situation, it might not be such a bad idea.


The right situation is pretty limited. Basically what you've described is like a commercial photographer being subcontracted for a job, which is fine in that realm because the commercial client has an art department handling things in-house.

A wedding client who wants to have control of post processing is either 1) micro-managing and untrusting of the professional hired, or 2) doing some extreme price-shopping. Either way, the wedding photography industry and most shooters aren't set up this way. I think examining the root cause of the request would say a lot and perhaps help find a better solution than just simply getting a discount for RAW files only.



Jul 12, 2017 at 06:10 AM
evertdoorn
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


I make money out of editing and selling albums, so I'd politely decline since it will cost me income


Jul 12, 2017 at 07:25 AM
heikoM
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Imagine how a chief would react if you ask him to make you a fine steak...
"donīt worry to make me the delicious sauce you are known for, I brought some BB sauce myself... can I get it cheaper then?"


heiko



Jul 12, 2017 at 08:38 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



ZachOly
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


I sell the RAWs for $500. Easy money.


Jul 12, 2017 at 01:31 PM
hardlyboring
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


I have shot and turned over files for other photography companies but would never turn over all the raws to a client personally.
I would sell a few raws to them if they coughed up the money but have never done it before.
Half of our photos are the post processing so just turning over raws is not going to be good for business IMO or a bad business model at best.
I would not someone making my photos look differently than how I envisioned them looking.



Jul 12, 2017 at 04:25 PM
ZachOly
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


What's the difference between the client editing the RAW file and the client editing your edited JPEG?

I can't wrap my head about the fear that a client is going to edit your photo so egregiously that it damages your business.



Jul 12, 2017 at 04:44 PM
LeeSimms
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


I'm as opposed to handing over RAWs as much as anyone, but I am aware this is a growing trend with videographers. Many now offer an inexpensive hard drive loaded with all the day's capture, without editing or color grading.



Jul 12, 2017 at 06:13 PM
t4haughton
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


I wouldn't trust 95% of the photographers on here to edit my images - zero chance I'm letting clients have at it.


Jul 12, 2017 at 06:53 PM
Ziffl3
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


LeeSimms wrote:
I'm as opposed to handing over RAWs as much as anyone, but I am aware this is a growing trend with videographers. Many now offer an inexpensive hard drive loaded with all the day's capture, without editing or color grading.


as of now ... we don't see video hanging on walls or in some form of display in a house.
Yes, you can loop it to play on a wall mounted screen.

But every day.... not buying this.

I can see video shooters doing this though.

-Mark



Edited on Jul 12, 2017 at 07:00 PM · View previous versions



Jul 12, 2017 at 06:57 PM
Ziffl3
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


t4haughton wrote:
I wouldn't trust 95% of the photographers on here to edit my images - zero chance I'm letting clients have at it.


you are assuming we would Want to edit your crap!!!

Mark




Jul 12, 2017 at 06:58 PM
leethecam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Whilst there are many professionals who might hand over anything if it makes a profit, I'm not one of them.

I do my job because I love it - otherwise I may as well work at McDonalds or drive a taxi or something else I wouldn't enjoy. (To those that do, great...!)

For me, photography is in two parts - capture and post.

I find the frame and moment and capture it.
Later I take that frame and make it the image I want it to be.

Besides, half the time I'm shooting with an edit in mind, so the original RAW file isn't what I imagined anyway.



Jul 12, 2017 at 08:10 PM
rek101
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


BSPhotog wrote:
The right situation is pretty limited. Basically what you've described is like a commercial photographer being subcontracted for a job, which is fine in that realm because the commercial client has an art department handling things in-house.

A wedding client who wants to have control of post processing is either 1) micro-managing and untrusting of the professional hired, or 2) doing some extreme price-shopping. Either way, the wedding photography industry and most shooters aren't set up this way. I think examining the root cause of the request would say a lot and perhaps help find a better solution than just
...Show more

It seems to also include a wedding photographer who used to shoot weddings and prefers taking pictures to sitting at a computer.



Jul 12, 2017 at 09:48 PM
rek101
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Wedding photography without the album and post processing?


Personally, I like a certain look to my photos and I wouldn't want anyone else doing anything but maybe cropping and touching up the occasional zit. If I liked how a guy shot a wedding, but not his PP, I'd want the raw files and to do it myself. That being said, I can't imagine doing all that work and I'd way rather hand it off to someone else.


Jul 12, 2017 at 10:51 PM
1
       2       3       end






FM Forums | Wedding Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password