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Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top pri...
  
 
snapsy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


https://www.dpreview.com/news/3532840795/adobe-officially-admits-speeding-up-lightroom-is-top-priority


Jul 11, 2017 at 10:13 PM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Excellent news. Here's hoping they can crack it - LR that flies would be a pleasure indeed.


Jul 11, 2017 at 11:33 PM
butchM
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I don't want to sound negative, but this issue shouldn't have taken this long to have become a 'priority' ... Several of the discussion forums have been inundated with this issue for the past several years with no answer in sight. More than a few users have suffered with this issue and their requests for a solution have gone unanswered.

The original code for Lightroom has been tweaked often, but maybe it's time to re-think and retool the underpinnings to take advantage of current and future hardware options. It's been over a decade since Lr was first developed, maybe something a little more cutting edge would be appropriate.

I can remember when Adobe always took pride in their efforts to be ahead of the curve on such issues. It now seems that they have a captive audience with CC, it's as though they no longer really need to keep pace like they did when their sales were based solely upon the merit system.

I hope Mr. Hogarty is sincere in his intent and isn't undermined by the accountants and executives further up the chain.



Jul 12, 2017 at 12:31 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I'll believe it when I see it. I love CaptureOne Pro and the only reason that I have Lightroom is because it came with CC. I hope that Adobe can speed it up or they're going to lose subscribers.


Jul 12, 2017 at 01:06 AM
OntheRez
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Pardon me, but when I see their mouths moving I know their lying. Excuse my cynicism, but Lr is a dog at so many functions. I'm stuck with it as I don't know of any other pix database tools. Lots of plugins and alternate editing tools, but as far as I can tell nothing in this field. Truly wish Apple hadn't dumped Aperture.


Jul 12, 2017 at 01:54 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I wish Adobe would make it a priority to fix that current mess of Acrobat.
Why did they take a decent version and create a new one that is so much worse?

EBH



Jul 12, 2017 at 03:48 AM
form
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


If they speed it up, what incentive will I have to buy computer upgrades?


Jul 12, 2017 at 01:51 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


reading thru a bunch of the comments on the link page I still think there are too many people using LR badly .

trying to do stuff that should be done in library mode while in develop is asking for trouble . I've never found LR to be a 'slug' when moving from image to image while in library . heck I find it runs along perfectly fine on my underpowered little MacBook air , although it could hang and crash on my mk1 surface pro (that had the same 4gig of ram and a faster i5 CPU)

but yes there are parts that sorely need addressing . moving images from 1 place to another even on the same drive takes way too long for instance . imports and exports as well .

if they can sift thru all the surveys and actually find the stuff where LR is slow and where it actually matters I hope they manage to make a bunch of improvements . What I fear though is they see all the "LR is way too slow moving from image to image at 100% in develop mode" comments and they go down that alley and don't improve the real problems



Jul 13, 2017 at 07:54 PM
butchM
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
if they can sift thru all the surveys and actually find the stuff where LR is slow and where it actually matters I hope they manage to make a bunch of improvements . What I fear though is they see all the "LR is way too slow moving from image to image at 100% in develop mode" comments and they go down that alley and don't improve the real problems


Sure, you can come to a cursory view of the issue if you choose. Though, I haven't personally experienced any detrimental slowness myself, I have watched others struggle ... and they aren't advancing through 50MP images at 100% view in the Develop module ... they were just trying to scroll through thumbnails in the Library module AFTER they have built full size previews. Not to mention work coming to a grinding halt to heal a couple of blemishes.

It isn't a one-size-fits all. And if it were so mundane a solution as to be solved by teaching users proper etiquette for workflow speed enhancement ... why haven't they offered tutorials for that specific purpose in mind.

The problem for a great number of users is not as simplistic as "Users Behaving Badly'



Jul 14, 2017 at 12:54 AM
theroadtaken
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


This issue is one of the biggest reasons that I fear upgrading my camera. Going from 13 MP to 40-50 MP, just scares the heck out of me with my Lightroom library.

I just don't understand how this hasn't been the number one priority. I guarantee that if the only release note item from the next released is "Lightroom is twice as fast", people would cheer them from coast to coast. Quit adding features just make it faster!

-Chris



Jul 14, 2017 at 01:32 AM
 

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Paul Mo
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I find LR pretty good overall. Speed improvements would be welcome in:

Generating 1:1 previews.

Exporting.

Speed up the closing process - Back Up Catalog.




And please address 'Lights Out' with dual monitors. Meaning, only dim the monitor with an active LR window.




Jul 14, 2017 at 04:06 AM
dmcphoto
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I've used Lightroom but never adopted it specifically because of the proprietary databases (Libraries) and dog slow speeds. Instead I've always used Photoshop (since version 4 in 1996) and ACR when digital cameras came around. Those two programs let you do anything one can do in LR except the image management functions, which I specifically don't need or want. YMMV.

Edit: I should add that processing 50 MP files on a 6 year old i7 PC is no problem at all with the PS/ACR combination.



Jul 14, 2017 at 03:55 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


I'll take any speed improvement they want to give me but I've always found ACR/PS to be fairly snappy on a proper PC. Lightroom I was never a fan of and I find it to be much slower. Adding better multi threaded support across the board would be huge.


Jul 14, 2017 at 04:07 PM
dmcphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Ive got nothing in particular against LR except the speed, but even setting speed aside I always felt it was a solution for a problem I didn't have.


Jul 14, 2017 at 04:59 PM
Chumma
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


dmcphoto wrote:
I've used Lightroom but never adopted it specifically because of the proprietary databases (Libraries) and dog slow speeds. Instead I've always used Photoshop (since version 4 in 1996) and ACR when digital cameras came around. Those two programs let you do anything one can do in LR except the image management functions, which I specifically don't need or want. YMMV.

Edit: I should add that processing 50 MP files on a 6 year old i7 PC is no problem at all with the PS/ACR combination.


The database behind LR is not proprietary. It is the well known sqlite database engine. That means you can look inside the database by using a utility or by writing a program. I recently did that using an empty catalog I created using the desktop version 6. I dumped the database schema into a spreadsheet. There are 101 tables. Some of the column names are self-explanatory and you can figure out where certain info, such as exif, are stored.

I then exported one photograph and then dumped the contents of all tables. You get some idea where some of the info goes. For example, the absolute path of the photograph goes only into one table, "AgLibraryRootFolder". It then uses a reference, something like a GUID, to reference the photograph in other tables...

If anyone is interested in seeing the details, I can put it on a website.



Jul 14, 2017 at 06:46 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Chumma wrote:
I then exported one photograph and then dumped the contents of all tables. You get some idea where some of the info goes. For example, the absolute path of the photograph goes only into one table, "AgLibraryRootFolder". It then uses a reference, something like a GUID, to reference the photograph in other tables...


Absolutely normal design for a SQL Database - and while there are some things that could well be improved (like keyboarding workflow for me as an example) overall performance issues are a hard thing to resolve when dealing with RAW files without cacheing a lot of intermediate data and trying to guess which is going to be done next. You can't expect that high performance out of a general purpose processor (or a processor that was meant to do something altogether different like the graphics processor of your graphics card) as manufacturers get out of a specialist signal processor that only has to deal with one kind of RAW data and has had the majority of necessary processing instructions baked into hardware...



Jul 14, 2017 at 07:44 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


CanadaMark wrote:
I'll take any speed improvement they want to give me but I've always found ACR/PS to be fairly snappy on a proper PC. Lightroom I was never a fan of and I find it to be much slower. Adding better multi threaded support across the board would be huge.


I don't think LR is slower at doing the same things that ACR does within PS. As it is essentially the same program doing the rendering, there is no reason it should be. The sluggish parts of LR (or at least the bits which appear sluggish) are those which ACR doesn't do: Moving between images is a common complaint, but it is of course much faster than ACR (which isn't designed to scroll from image to image), but given that the RAW data needs to be loaded and rendered i don't think a little latency is unreasonable. I've also noticed that once any of the local adjustment tools has been invoked everything slows down a lot (scrolling around an image at 1:1 zoom shows this clearly). Presumably the local adjustment tools create some sort of layering to the image rendering stack, i would guess implemented as ACR + extra bits tacked on top. PS clearly handles the layering much better, with a better designed rendering pipeline.

Personally i don't believe that the database incurs any sort of performance overhead, as even regular i/o as you edit involves very little data. I tend to think it is all in the image rendering pipeline, and comparing it to PS there looks to me to be quite a lot they can do before they start optimising the threading.



Jul 14, 2017 at 08:33 PM
mikeengles
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Lightroom came out over 10 years ago, when 12mp was the largest pixel size, for a DSLR. Now we have 50MP cameras.
In the era of the 5D a 1:1 preview was still pushing it, the era of the 5Ds will pretty well kill lightroom.
Lightroom was designed to use proxies to process images. Users seem to just go for full size images. If you use a preview slightly larger than the image area of your monitor with Lightroom, the whole think works very well.
I restrict my previews to 1680 pixels, with a 1920 pixel Eizo and have very few problems with my 7 year of Quad i7 and 16gb of ram. I have done cloning with 20 or 30 patches and even though it can be slow, it works fine.
As a test recently I made a new catalogue with 40 5D3 images.
1:1 previews took up 236 Mb as Jpegs?
1680 previews took up 27mb as Jpegs?
Smart Previews took 28mb as DNG.
If you use 1:1 previews it is like using full size 24bit tiffs. Lightroom has a caching system that tries to keep 10 or 12 images in memory, so we can go back and forth. That is a large amount of data when using 1:1 previews.
MDE



Jul 21, 2017 at 01:32 PM
butchM
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


mikeengles wrote:
Lightroom came out over 10 years ago, when 12mp was the largest pixel size, for a DSLR. Now we have 50MP cameras.
In the era of the 5D a 1:1 preview was still pushing it, the era of the 5Ds will pretty well kill lightroom.
Lightroom was designed to use proxies to process images. Users seem to just go for full size images. If you use a preview slightly larger than the image area of your monitor with Lightroom, the whole think works very well.
I restrict my previews to 1680 pixels, with a 1920 pixel Eizo and have very few problems with
...Show more

All of the above sounds good until you consider, back when Lightroom was first offered many popular computers at the time were running had much more modest specs than what is offered today.

I was running 10-12MP files through an iMac 24" with a meager 2.33 Ghz Core 2 duo processor (667 Mhz buss throughput) and maxed out at 4GB of Ram ... built in 24" monitor at 1920x1200 pixels with VRAM measured in MB ... Storage drives were SATA 3 spinning drives with externals at original Firewire speeds. There was not much in the way of slowdowns or performance issues as I recall from those days.

Today, i7 quad core processors are commonplace as is copious amounts of RAM ... 32GB is affordable for most pro photographers not to mention the throughput is in the neighborhood of 2400Mhz and graphics cards boast huge quantities of VRAM measured in GB pushing through multiple 4k and 5k displays. As well as very efficient and affordable SSD storage that has I/O performance that can peg the needle in the Black Magic Disk Speed Test app. Not to mention the much, much faster capabilities of external Thunderbolt, eSATA and even USB3 drives of today.

While the DSLR sensors have offered more pixel data, computer hardware has also kept pace. Lightroom performance has not. It's old code written for older hardware with that hasn't kept pace with other advancements.

In many aspects, Lightroom is much less efficient than many other apps that render RAW image files ... even on modest configurations.

If I'm working with 50MP RAW image files on a 4k-5k monitor with a robust current hardware offering, it kind of defeats the purpose to only render 1680 pixel previews. When you consider, in the Develop module, as soon as I zoom in, Lightroom is going to render a 1:1 preview anyway. It's a pay me now or pay me later proposition.

Adobe has some work to do in the area. It's in our best interest to let them get to it. They have avoided the issue long enough.



Jul 21, 2017 at 02:50 PM
mikeengles
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Adobe officially admits speeding up Lightroom is 'top priority'


Hello
I have also tried Capture one , which uses the same kind of proxy metaphor and really I did not think it actually performed any better in terms of speed.
I am trying DXO at the moment. This seems quite impressive, but again it seems about the same as LR. I don't know what it does for previews.
MDE



Jul 21, 2017 at 03:13 PM
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