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Archive 2017 · D820!!!!

  
 
mbphoto_2.8
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · D820!!!!


I agree with @CanadaMark
Camera profiles are a bitch.. (Just check out my "low iso noise" thread on the D7000 to see examples.)

The profile won't just change colours, it can also hugely affect saturation and color contrast as a consequence, so make images look "flatter" or "harsher".
If you use the colorchecker to generate a profile for each camera, you have the exact same starting point for your edits.

I'm confident that this works for Nikon sensors.
And very curious to see whether I can get my Fuji images to look the same way as well



Jul 21, 2017 at 04:57 AM
Mark_L
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · D820!!!!


CanadaMark wrote:
At trade shows and product demos, Nikon reps would hold the D500 ONLY by the screen, with a 200-500 attached (over 5lbs), and swing them around - durability is not at all a concern with the way Nikon implements it. With how big/long that lens is, that is a huge amount of force both on the lens mount and the screen if someone is swinging it around. In fact I've never even heard of a tilting/articulating screen issue on any Nikon camera at any point in time.


Thanks for posting this, I had not seen it before. Hopefully the connections and sealing as as good as the mount strength.

Nikon really need to do something with their lens mounts, they seem to make them out of cheese and expect us to hang massive lenses on them.

mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
very curious to see whether I can get my Fuji images to look the same way as well


Fuji just seem to be able to make colours look great no matter what.

I have struggled with green on every nikon camera. It either looks to cyan or too yellowy over-saturated.



Jul 21, 2017 at 06:15 AM
TAM63
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · D820!!!!


CanadaMark wrote:
Yeah to me, just based on the info I have anyway, it looks like just a profile issue.

The same edit settings or built in camera/adobe profiles on 2 different cameras will rarely come out the same, mine never have. Sometimes differences are larger between certain bodies than others. Using a colorchecker fixes this problem and puts everything at the same level. It might correct your D810 image just a bit, and your D500 images a lot, but they will look pretty much the same in the end. Regardless if it helps you or not, it's an excellent and inexpensive tool
...Show more

Interestingly, color balance was the same between the two photos. When I said I was seeing similar in many of the shots, I meant that softness. The lens seems to be sharper on the D810. I haven't fooled with that a lot yet, as I doubt I am keeping the camera.

I will look into the color checker - haven't needed it previously. The colors, I guess, may be a little 'off' on the D500 - but it is the editing latitude I miss from the D810, and also that undefinable 'harshness' that bothers me - I doubt that a color profile will correct that. I don't really see it significantly in the bluebird photos - I just don't have a good example where I shot the two side by side other than that one.



Jul 21, 2017 at 07:58 AM
TAM63
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · D820!!!!


CanadaMark wrote:
Yeah to me, just based on the info I have anyway, it looks like just a profile issue.

The same edit settings or built in camera/adobe profiles on 2 different cameras will rarely come out the same, mine never have. Sometimes differences are larger between certain bodies than others. Using a colorchecker fixes this problem and puts everything at the same level. It might correct your D810 image just a bit, and your D500 images a lot, but they will look pretty much the same in the end. Regardless if it helps you or not, it's an excellent and inexpensive tool
...Show more

I'm not familiar with color checker - when I look it up, it seems to be saying it is used to set white balance in camera - take a photo of it each time you take a series of photos? Which isn't going to work very well out in nature, and lighting changes quite a bit. Is there a different use you are referring to?

(and should I start a different thread on this, we're way off topic now?)



Jul 21, 2017 at 08:02 AM
bbourizk
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · D820!!!!


TAM63 wrote:
I'm not familiar with color checker - when I look it up, it seems to be saying it is used to set white balance in camera - take a photo of it each time you take a series of photos? Which isn't going to work very well out in nature, and lighting changes quite a bit. Is there a different use you are referring to?

(and should I start a different thread on this, we're way off topic now?)


Search on google for color checker profiles.
Basically you make profiles in different lighting conditions, eg sunny, shade, flash and when ever you do a shoot say outside on a sunny day you can assign that profile to those shots.
You can use the color checker to set WB as well.




Jul 21, 2017 at 08:59 AM
molson
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · D820!!!!


TAM63 wrote:
I'm not familiar with color checker - when I look it up, it seems to be saying it is used to set white balance in camera - take a photo of it each time you take a series of photos? Which isn't going to work very well out in nature, and lighting changes quite a bit. Is there a different use you are referring to?

(and should I start a different thread on this, we're way off topic now?)



What people are referring to is the camera calibration software that comes with the ColorChecker Passport Photo:

http://xritephoto.com/colorchecker-passport-photo



Jul 21, 2017 at 09:28 AM
CanadaMark
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · D820!!!!


TAM63 wrote:
Interestingly, color balance was the same between the two photos. When I said I was seeing similar in many of the shots, I meant that softness. The lens seems to be sharper on the D810. I haven't fooled with that a lot yet, as I doubt I am keeping the camera.

I will look into the color checker - haven't needed it previously. The colors, I guess, may be a little 'off' on the D500 - but it is the editing latitude I miss from the D810, and also that undefinable 'harshness' that bothers me - I doubt that a color
...Show more

The color was definitely not the same in those two photos - you might have used the same settings in Lightroom/PS though, but that doesn't mean anything when using different files. A colorchecker profile will affect contrast and saturation as well.

I still don't see any harshness in the image, can you post a 'harsh' example? If you crop too much or over-sharpen, that will give the images a harsh look, and you can definitely crop or sharpen the D810 files more before that happens. No doubt the D810 has more editing latitude.


TAM63 wrote:
I'm not familiar with color checker - when I look it up, it seems to be saying it is used to set white balance in camera - take a photo of it each time you take a series of photos? Which isn't going to work very well out in nature, and lighting changes quite a bit. Is there a different use you are referring to?

(and should I start a different thread on this, we're way off topic now?)


So the color checker works very simply, really. One side is a WB card for your convenience, the other side is all the colored squares. You take a photo of the CC in the lighting you will be shooting in - you only need to do it once for sunlight, shade, overcast, etc. but you have to do it for each camera. If you are ever doing portraits or other critical work, you can always make another custom profile for those exact conditions, but it is not necessary for general shooting.

You save the images of the colorcheker as a DNG in photoshop, open it in the colorchecker software, and it automatically makes a profile and saves it in your LR/PS profile's list. Voila.

Now, at the end of a day's shoot, you just highlight all the images under sunlight and one click you get great color - same for any other photos taken under the same lighting. The amount of time this has saved me I can't even quantify.

You can also use it to correct WB either during the shoot with a custom WB setting in camera, or after the fact with the photo you took of the color checker and the Photoshop WB eye dropper, then you can just copy that WB across all similar photos if needed, or tweak it to your liking. Honestly I think it's a tool that should be in every photographer's kit - even if you only use it occasionally for very specific profiles.



Jul 21, 2017 at 10:16 AM
TAM63
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · D820!!!!


CanadaMark wrote:
The color was definitely not the same in those two photos - you might have used the same settings in Lightroom/PS though, but that doesn't mean anything when using different files. A colorchecker profile will affect contrast and saturation as well.

I still don't see any harshness in the image, can you post a 'harsh' example? If you crop too much or over-sharpen, that will give the images a harsh look, and you can definitely crop or sharpen the D810 files more before that happens. No doubt the D810 has more editing latitude.


So the color checker works very simply, really. One
...Show more

Great, thank you very much.

For a harsher image, did you look at the photo of the cormorant that I posted (prior to the bluebirds)?

I'm afraid that I've deleted most of the images I don't like.



Jul 21, 2017 at 10:54 AM
CanadaMark
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · D820!!!!


TAM63 wrote:
Great, thank you very much.

For a harsher image, did you look at the photo of the cormorant that I posted (prior to the bluebirds)?

I'm afraid that I've deleted most of the images I don't like.


Just did - sorry I missed that before.

It's unfortunately OOF so right there you can't really compare it to anything. It looks like it might be a fairly heavy crop. It's also on water with a bunch of strong reflections (which can screw with AF too) - too many factors in my opinion. If in a controlled scenario you think the images look fine, then it's likely something else besides the camera causing the harshness. Comparing to D810 image quality though you are probably always going to be disappointed by a DX sensor with even higher pixel density. With the D500 you get (almost) D5 performance for under $2K - it's really quite a phenomenal value proposition. Of course the caveat is the DX sensor, and while it has one of the best available, it's always going to look worse than a D810.



Jul 21, 2017 at 11:13 AM
jhinkey
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · D820!!!!


Been out of the rumor loupe lately - is the D820 still supposed to be announced the end of the month?


Jul 21, 2017 at 05:38 PM
tdlavigne
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · D820!!!!


jhinkey wrote:
Been out of the rumor loupe lately - is the D820 still supposed to be announced the end of the month?


Supposedly the next big date is the 100th Anniversary announcement. I think it's the 25th...but it seems a bit too quiet for something that's that close. Would've expected some leaked/grainy photos by now.



Jul 21, 2017 at 06:08 PM
low325
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · D820!!!!


wasn't the d500 one of the best kept secrets of recent? that one came out of left field after the d5...cant wait till the 25th though.


Jul 21, 2017 at 09:35 PM
EB-1
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · D820!!!!


jhinkey wrote:
Been out of the rumor loupe lately - is the D820 still supposed to be announced the end of the month?

tdlavigne wrote:
Supposedly the next big date is the 100th Anniversary announcement. I think it's the 25th...but it seems a bit too quiet for something that's that close. Would've expected some leaked/grainy photos by now.


It could be announced in August with availability a ways off. The D500 was not available for 4+ months after being announced in early January 2016. I ended up buying a D7200.

EBH



Jul 21, 2017 at 10:13 PM
TAM63
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · D820!!!!


CanadaMark wrote:
Just did - sorry I missed that before.

It's unfortunately OOF so right there you can't really compare it to anything. It looks like it might be a fairly heavy crop. It's also on water with a bunch of strong reflections (which can screw with AF too) - too many factors in my opinion. If in a controlled scenario you think the images look fine, then it's likely something else besides the camera causing the harshness. Comparing to D810 image quality though you are probably always going to be disappointed by a DX sensor with even higher pixel density. With the
...Show more

It doesn't look OOF when I view the RAW, but dunno. It does have that quality that I seem to get in all my shots with that camera/lens combo. The same lens is fine (sharp) on the D810.

I know it is on water, but similar shots with the D810 on that same water are fine.

ymmv with the D500 - for me, in perfect conditions it is ok. In less than perfect conditions, I really prefer the D810. The only thing I really like about the D500 is the AF, and that's probably not enough reason to keep it. I think I am just not cut out for DX.

I'm sorry I can't come up with better examples - like I said, I've deleted the shots I didn't like.



Jul 22, 2017 at 07:35 AM
mbphoto_2.8
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · D820!!!!


I feel like you don't want to accept the fact that it's not the camera...

Fine-tune the AF for that lens (it's clearly not right with the D500 - and that's perfectly possible, because of manufacturing tolerances with the alignment of the PDAF sensor..) and then try using a colorchecker to create precise color profiles for both your cameras.

If the D500, in a direct comparison, still looks bad, then feel free to hand it to someone who appreciates it

Ps: i cannot imagine that the CROP of a D810 could EVER look superior.. makes no sense at nearly identical pixel pitch.



Jul 22, 2017 at 08:08 AM
TAM63
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · D820!!!!


mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
I feel like you don't want to accept the fact that it's not the camera...

Fine-tune the AF for that lens (it's clearly not right with the D500 - and that's perfectly possible, because of manufacturing tolerances with the alignment of the PDAF sensor..) and then try using a colorchecker to create precise color profiles for both your cameras.

If the D500, in a direct comparison, still looks bad, then feel free to hand it to someone who appreciates it

Ps: i cannot imagine that the CROP of a D810 could EVER look superior.. makes no sense at nearly identical pixel pitch.
...Show more

I don't accept the "fact" that it isn't the camera.

I have seen many other photos from that same model camera. I have multiple local friends with the same camera. There is some (undefinable it seems) character to images from that body that I, and many others, do not like. It has been commented about on this forum and others - I'm not the only one.

You may not be able to imagine it, but many of us feel that a crop of a D810 does look superior.

Yes, I myself mentioned possibly fine tuning the lens. I haven't yet because a) my friend has my target and b) I dislike the camera and I haven't been using it, so haven't worried about it c) I have another fairly long lens I can use if I need to

I am probably selling my D500, already have someone that probably wants it, didn't need someone to tell me that solution really. My concern is not the D500 - but more purchasing a new full frame body that has similar image quality



Jul 22, 2017 at 08:38 AM
arbitrage
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · D820!!!!


tdlavigne wrote:
Supposedly the next big date is the 100th Anniversary announcement. I think it's the 25th...but it seems a bit too quiet for something that's that close. Would've expected some leaked/grainy photos by now.


Yes, seems like Nokishita or Digicame-Info should have leaked the press release photos (as per usual) if this was going to be announced next week. But there is still hope as I checked Nikon Rumors before the D5/D500 release and there were leaked specs of the D5 a day ahead but absolutely no leaked pics or spec list of the D500.

Although it may be that Nikon doesn't want to be using a regularly scheduled new camera update as a mark of the 100th. They have all the special anniversary products announced already. Maybe they will wait till Aug or later to announce the D820. Who knows



Jul 22, 2017 at 11:05 AM
Chris Dees
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · D820!!!!


arbitrage wrote:
Yes, seems like Nokishita or Digicame-Info should have leaked the press release photos (as per usual) if this was going to be announced next week. But there is still hope as I checked Nikon Rumors before the D5/D500 release and there were leaked specs of the D5 a day ahead but absolutely no leaked pics or spec list of the D500.

Although it may be that Nikon doesn't want to be using a regularly scheduled new camera update as a mark of the 100th. They have all the special anniversary products announced already. Maybe they will wait till Aug or later
...Show more

If you're right there will be a lot of Nikon bashing next week.




Jul 22, 2017 at 11:14 AM
cvrle59
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · D820!!!!


According to the latest Nrumors, D820 will be actually D850!


Jul 23, 2017 at 03:57 PM
JohnK007
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · D820!!!!


.

Edited on Jul 23, 2017 at 04:26 PM · View previous versions



Jul 23, 2017 at 04:12 PM
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