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Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
  
 
jorkata
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p.69 #1 · p.69 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Mikehit wrote:
On another forum someone brought up the interesting thought that if you were to put the 5DIV sensor into the 6D2, this would take manufacturing capacity away from the 5DIV.

This is ultra naive and simplistic, as it implies that manufacturing capacity is somehow fixed and cannot be extended.
Canon does this for living; if it's making them money, they will surely increase capacity as needed.


But what I don't understand is the accusation the Canon have used 'old technology' as a way of cutting costs

That's the most likely explanation.


And given that they also have the technology for on-chip ADC already in place, what is the difference between making a FF 80D sensor and a 26MP 6D sensor?

The difference is in the production yields for the two types of sensors: crop vs FF.
The post above offers some back of the envelope cost calculations for that.

Integrating the ADCs on the sensor is actually a cost-saving measure.
However, until the productions yields stabilize, costs will actually be higher.

Crop sensors have higher yields simply by virtue of being smaller.
So, for crop sensors, Canon is obviously able to realize the cost savings inherent to integrating the ADCs on the sensor.

However, this might not be true for FF sensors - at least initially - due to lower yields.


Overall, Canon is not going to intentionally 'cripple' the 6DII if that costs them money.
It's all business for them, so they will only do it if saves them money, not the other way round.

Production yields of the new sensor tech will stabilize eventually.
And when that happens, FF sensors with on-chip ADCs will become cheaper for Canon than using external ADCs.
So, the 6D series will eventually get a modern sensor as well.

P.S. Note that the 6DII sensor is unlikely to be made on the same tech as the 6D and 5DIII.
By the look of things, it's made on the same tech as the 70D/5DS.
These sensors are quite good, even though they don't have on-chip ADCs either.


Edited on Jul 27, 2017 at 02:28 PM · View previous versions



Jul 27, 2017 at 02:21 PM
snapsy
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p.69 #2 · p.69 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Ubtree wrote:
I wonder whether some of the issues regarding Canon sensors (highlighted by the disappointing 6D MkII’s DR) might be due to manufacturing reject levels for sensors. I am not an expert in sensor manufacture, and no doubt those with more knowledge will be able to correct and add to the following.

Sensor costs – ignoring failure rates
It is reasonable to assume that, ignoring failure rates, the cost of producing a sensor is broadly directly proportional to its area. If so, you would expect the cost of a FF sensor to be 2.59x that of an APS-C sensor.

Failure rates
When they are manufactured,
...Show more

I think it's much simpler than this - Canon has multiple sensor fabs, which varying levels of process widths and technology. They likely relegated the 6DM2 to the older fab.



Jul 27, 2017 at 02:26 PM
jorkata
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p.69 #3 · p.69 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


snapsy wrote:
I think it's much simpler than this - Canon has multiple sensor fabs, which varying levels of process widths and technology. They likely relegated the 6DM2 to the older fab.


+1



Jul 27, 2017 at 02:28 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.69 #4 · p.69 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


It could even be just a higher resolution 6D sensor too, as the 6D actually beat out the 5D3, and the 6D2 DR at ISO seems to be very slightly behind the 6D.

Take the 6D sensor and raise its pixel density 6Mpx for a 30% increase, thus possibly reducing its pulled shadow capabilities by the same percentage of a stop? Remember that the 6D was kicking butt when it was announced, and I could definitely see a marketing meeting where they wanted to increase the resolution only to save costs, then work on all the other things that differentiate the 6D2 now from the 6D, in an effort to keep the release price about the same as the original 6D.

Not a terrible decision really, but they should have marketed it differently than, rather to deceive everyone in thinking this was a new sensor based on on-chip ADC and better low light performance. They could have stated that they took everything that everyone loved about the 6D, and made it even better, giving it more resolution, better low light AF, a seriously enhanced AF system with f/8 focusing, and a ton of other new features that were sure to enhance the shooting experiences.



Jul 27, 2017 at 04:46 PM
jforkner
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p.69 #5 · p.69 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Ordered mine today from Amazon (fulfilled by Adorama). Supposed to be here Monday, the 31st.

Got the "shipped" notice 6 hours later.

Just thought you guys would want to know.



Jul 27, 2017 at 08:51 PM
bootster
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p.69 #6 · p.69 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


jforkner wrote:
Ordered mine today from Amazon (fulfilled by Adorama). Supposed to be here Monday, the 31st.

Got the "shipped" notice 6 hours later.

Just thought you guys would want to know.


Congratulations! You have bought yourself a great camera, and I'm 100% sure you will have a ball shooting with it.

I'm just stunned by the posters who have seemed to make it their life's work to denigrate this new camera over a thought that somehow that they would get a $3,500 camera for $2,000. Some have a whole page in their history of nothing but negative comments towards this camera. That's very, very suspicious as to motive. There has got to be an ulterior motive to dwell on this issue, and write scores of posts hammering this camera.

I've seen negative posts on new cameras before they were introduced, but this one seems to have some kind of magnetic attraction to some who just want to continually post the same damaging comments repeatedly. I don't get it, but I'm waiting for mine with the utmost enthusiasm, as I know what happens when I get a new camera. Maybe this camera has some kind of mystique we just don't know about yet. I'll know soon, that's for sure.



Jul 27, 2017 at 09:51 PM
bootster
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p.69 #7 · p.69 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


garydavidjones wrote:
Links are to ratings,not sales




You have a point. I had to go back and search some more, as there were results that were misleading in their titles. I found out that most, even though suggesting popularity, were just going with opinions, or ratings. I have gone through them and realized that some Sony's were popping up here and there. It's amazing how you can look for a result by a search, and have results that are giving you some different results. I don't like to mislead, so I will go over these sites and correct, and find new ones as needed. Maybe there are some biased results in some of these sites, as there can't be a group of brands that are in a list of best selling, but not in the lists of best cameras. If they are top sellers, then they are good cameras, and the articles should reflect that.



Jul 27, 2017 at 10:10 PM
Mashuto
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p.69 #8 · p.69 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


bootster wrote:
I'm just stunned by the posters who have seemed to make it their life's work to denigrate this new camera over a thought that somehow that they would get a $3,500 camera for $2,000. Some have a whole page in their history of nothing but negative comments towards this camera. That's very, very suspicious as to motive. There has got to be an ulterior motive to dwell on this issue, and write scores of posts hammering this camera.


You are exaggerating a significant amount just to prove your point. The truth is just that some people are disappointed that the camera is lacking things that its fairly reasonable to expect a $2000 camera in 2017 to have. And while some people take it way too far, I think most of us realize that it will still be a great camera and still take excellent pictures. But some of us are looking at upgrading from things like the original 6D and the lack of some of those features (for me its DR) makes it a much less exciting prospect at full price. For me it would essentially be $2000 for a flippy screen and a number of other smaller features that are not as exciting to me.

I will still reserve final judgement until some thorough production model reviews come in, but I am not expecting them to suddenly make it worth it to me as a current 6D owner who doesnt need most of the new features, and only really wants a few of them.



Jul 27, 2017 at 11:02 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



RobDickinson
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p.69 #9 · p.69 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


For me the central core of any camera is is image quality.

Colour range, noise, resolution, dynamic range etc.

The 6d2 only improves one of those factors by a small amount.

The rest, the overall package, is much improved, but its like having a better stereo in your new sports car even though its no faster around a track, nice to have but you wouldnt rush out for it.



Jul 27, 2017 at 11:05 PM
RustyBug
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p.69 #10 · p.69 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Mashuto wrote:
But some of us are looking at upgrading from things like the original 6D ... makes it a much less exciting prospect at full price.


Iterative improvements from one generation to the next have never been Canon's strongest selling point. If I were on the 6D already, the AF improvement to include f/8 would probably be the most compelling reason for the upgrade.

But, if I had been shooting the 6D for years without f/8 ... I'd likely wait for a $$$ drop before upgrading, or just stand pat on the 6D and not shoot f/8 with it. Actually, I think that if you are an original 6D owner ... you might consider the 80D to mate to it (which then gives you f/8 shooting) instead of upgrading to the 6D2.

But, for those coming from someplace other than the iterative difference of a 6D ... the 6D2 offers a greater interest, because the "jump" is greater than the iterative 6D>6D2 is. Many 6D owners probably have their eye on either the 5D4 (now) vs. the 6D3 (later). I suspect current 6D owners will be the LEAST likely of all to "upgrade" to a 6D2 (not to be confused for those who it would be a "downgrade").



Jul 28, 2017 at 01:05 AM
Mashuto
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p.69 #11 · p.69 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Iterative improvements from one generation to the next have never been Canon's strongest selling point. If I were on the 6D already, the AF improvement to include f/8 would probably be the most compelling reason for the upgrade.

But, if I had been shooting the 6D for years without f/8 ... I'd likely wait for a $$$ drop before upgrading, or just stand pat on the 6D and not shoot f/8 with it. Actually, I think that if you are an original 6D owner ... you might consider the 80D to mate to it (which then gives you f/8 shooting)
...Show more

Yea, my thoughts are that if you are someone who is just first making the jump to FF, this camera will excel just like the original 6D did and be a fantastic camera that offers quite a lot that the original 6D did not.

But again, as a 6D owner, and one who has owned it for nearly 5 years now, its just kind of disappointing. The features are nice (though again for some people its missing some pretty important features). And I get why there has been a backlash because without some of those important features people want and without any real image quality improvement (well that remains to be seen other than DR) it just doesn't seem like a great update for a camera that took 5 years to refresh.

Taken on its own, I know it will be excellent, and it does offer more than my 6D, but its just that its 5 years newer and compared to other potential cameras, again, I get the disappointment.

Though for those of you getting it, don't let it diminish your purchase. Others opinion of your gear shouldnt have any bearing on how you feel about it. It will still be an excellent camera and it will still take excellent pictures.



Jul 28, 2017 at 01:45 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.69 #12 · p.69 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Very well put Mashuto.


Jul 28, 2017 at 01:48 AM
RustyBug
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p.69 #13 · p.69 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Mashuto wrote:
Though for those of you getting it, don't let it diminish your purchase.


Fat chance ... my SLR/C has finally succumbed to being the cherished relic of yesteryear. Who knows, maybe I'll say the same thing of the 6D2 in 10 years.



Jul 28, 2017 at 01:50 AM
PhilDrinkwater
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p.69 #14 · p.69 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Mashuto wrote:
Yea, my thoughts are that if you are someone who is just first making the jump to FF, this camera will excel just like the original 6D did and be a fantastic camera that offers quite a lot that the original 6D did not.

But again, as a 6D owner, and one who has owned it for nearly 5 years now, its just kind of disappointing. The features are nice (though again for some people its missing some pretty important features). And I get why there has been a backlash because without some of those important features people want and without
...Show more

You are so right of course. It's only in comparison either with the previous 6d or some alternatives that things look a little awkward.

Reality is it'll either perform the task you need of it or it won't. I get those who never use a wide DR are going to be thrilled. I suppose it's that feeling that canon are trying really really hard to hold back. Maybe I understand this - if we run forward too quickly we'll run out of ideas to fix .. but that just seems like a lazy attitude, if that were in fact the reason.

Fundamentally though I totally agree with you. It will do a great job for hundreds of thousand. And rightly so.



Jul 28, 2017 at 06:10 AM
bootster
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p.69 #15 · p.69 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Iterative improvements from one generation to the next have never been Canon's strongest selling point. If I were on the 6D already, the AF improvement to include f/8 would probably be the most compelling reason for the upgrade.

But, if I had been shooting the 6D for years without f/8 ... I'd likely wait for a $$$ drop before upgrading, or just stand pat on the 6D and not shoot f/8 with it. Actually, I think that if you are an original 6D owner ... you might consider the 80D to mate to it (which then gives you f/8 shooting)
...Show more

I think you have been sucked into the DR issue as being a big deal when it really isn't as much as some would like us to believe. I am really wishing now that I had never got a 6D until now (6D Mk II), but I borrowed a 5D Mk III from CPS and I wanted a full frame camera. A 6D came up locally for a great deal, and I've been really happy with it, but I would be really excited to get the 6D Mk II moving up from the 80D, without having the 6D in the meantime.

All of the people having waited until now are going to be very happy with this camera because of the tilt/flip/touch screen, if they are either used to it from the 80D, 70D, or if they are coming from any manual menu camera, except perhaps the 6D for the reason you have expressed here. The transition to the newer interface just makes for a more pleasant GUI to just about any user. The cameras with this interface just make using them a lot easier and more pleasurable.

That's just my thoughts on it and YMMV as usual.



Jul 28, 2017 at 06:41 AM
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