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Archive 2017 · Best RAW processors?

  
 
charlyw
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Best RAW processors?


butchM wrote:
More reverse FUD. You can sync images to all your devices and share with friends/clients easily using Dropbox, iCloud and several other third party options that are free for about an equal amount of space as is included with the CC Photography Package. Which is what we did in the days before Adobe offered their own cloud option.

Neither of these works half as nice and integrated into the processes as the Adobe cloud does - I get the impression that you didn't even try...

butchM wrote:
The cost of Lightroom v6 standalone and some cloud space from a third party along with a publish services collection can be just as affordable as using CC.


The cost is much higher as you need to manage the integration of all your devices. I like to use lightroom moble when I am on the move - no dice with any of the solutions you mentioned. I live in a country where a big dataplan for mobile data is horrendously expensive. The CC integration allows me to have presynched all images I may want to have with me for current use, be it in a presentation or for cropping and culling...




Jun 30, 2017 at 09:23 AM
butchM
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
Neither of these works half as nice and integrated into the processes as the Adobe cloud does - I get the impression that you didn't even try...


Perhaps you shouldn't assume so much. I am a CC subscriber and I have synced images using both CC and other options. I simply do not have the motivation to promote one option over the other. While I find Lightroom Mobile to have potential, the fact I must use Adobe servers hundreds, if not thousands of miles away, to move images to my phone, tablet or laptop that may only be inches away from each other is nothing more than a protectionist business model.

The cost is much higher as you need to manage the integration of all your devices. I like to use lightroom moble when I am on the move - no dice with any of the solutions you mentioned. I live in a country where a big dataplan for mobile data is horrendously expensive. The CC integration allows me to have presynched all images I may want to have with me for current use, be it in a presentation or for cropping and culling...



If you haven't been able to utilize the Dropbox app for photos or understand how iCloud Drive works, maybe you haven't 'tried' those either. Syncing data across devices is quite easy if you set the proper foundation. It was possible, easily achieved and affordable (sometimes free) long before the advent of CC. Many folks who do not use Adobe products don't seem suffer the issues you proclaim ... yet they can easily sync/share their images.



Jun 30, 2017 at 09:50 AM
philber
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
With Adobe you pay for the very efficient cloud and web integration and you always get a current version for the price of a big mac menu or two a month... If that leaves you feeling taken prisoner - sorry, but that's just FUD!


My understanding, is, when you leave the Adove rental model, you lose access to all your past edits, and have nothing to show for the money you paid. If you had bought software, you could continue to use it to your heart's content.
I rest my case.



Jun 30, 2017 at 10:00 AM
charlyw
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Best RAW processors?


butchM wrote:
If you haven't been able to utilize the Dropbox app for photos or understand how iCloud Drive works, maybe you haven't 'tried' those either.


I tried and dismissed them as being too cumbersome for my use...

butchM wrote:
It was possible, easily achieved and affordable (sometimes free) long before the advent of CC. Many folks who do not use Adobe products don't seem suffer the issues you proclaim ... yet they can easily sync/share their images.


And yet it fell short of what I expected from it - it was cumbersome and required use of third party software which had insufficient data protection standards and which don't allow for an easy integrated workflow! It's all about the amount of work you have to put in to get something to work.

Let's try that: How would you synchronize your last shoot's RAW images to an iPad for culling and cropping so that when you come home you can continue and finalize your edits...




Jun 30, 2017 at 10:02 AM
charlyw
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Best RAW processors?


philber wrote:
My understanding, is, when you leave the Adove rental model, you lose access to all your past edits, and have nothing to show for the money you paid. If you had bought software, you could continue to use it to your heart's content.
I rest my case.


You rest your case on a wrong assumption - if you stop your subscription you keep all your edits, you just can't change anything about them anymore. You will still have full access to all the modules in LR and can export your images to any format you like - you just can't do any further changes...



Jun 30, 2017 at 10:05 AM
chez
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
You rest your case on a wrong assumption - if you stop your subscription you keep all your edits, you just can't change anything about them anymore. You will still have full access to all the modules in LR and can export your images to any format you like - you just can't do any further changes...


There is a lot of misinformation around Adobe that really influences people's views. Too bad these opinionated views are from ignorance.



Jun 30, 2017 at 10:22 AM
butchM
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
You rest your case on a wrong assumption -


This two seems to be a two-way street.

... if you stop your subscription you keep all your edits, you just can't change anything about them anymore. You will still have full access to all the modules in LR and can export your images to any format you like - you just can't do any further changes...


While it is true that you still have access to your work after a subscription expires, it is not true that 'You will still have full access to all the modules in LR' ... or that ... 'you just can't change anything about them anymore.'

While you can still export and print from Lightroom CC, you will lose access to the Develop module and the Map module.

For obvious reasons if you are not paying the subscription, Adobe is not going to provide the most important tool gratis, nor are they going to pay royalties to Google for Maps users who are no longer paying a subscription fee to them.

While you lose the functionality of the full Develop module, you will retain the use of the Quick Develop functions in the Library module which will allow rudimentary adjustments ... so you can do limited changes for processing images.

When you are presenting your case, details do matter. Clarity and accuracy are important.



Jun 30, 2017 at 10:29 AM
butchM
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
Let's try that: How would you synchronize your last shoot's RAW images to an iPad for culling and cropping so that when you come home you can continue and finalize your edits...



That's easy ... There are times in a professional workflow where we may want to avoid utilizing a feature just because we can. I shoot many sporting events where I will have 6,000 - 8,000 RAW images from a handful of photographers to deal with ... culling on an iPad would be an exercise in futility if I want to meet my deadlines.

I don't waste my time converting thousands of RAW images to Smart Previews from my most current shoot and bounce them off a server thousands of miles away to 'cull' them on my iPad.

I simply do that work on a device more appropriate for the task, the laptop I use on location or the desktop right in my studio. By the time I can send a job to my iPad, I could be done with the task so I don't have to 'continue' my work later.

On occasion, I do use a tablet for location work to process limited numbers of images for immediate publication online and in print, but I don't need to 'sync' those to all my devices. It's much easier to perform that task in toto at the end of the work day.

Like I said, Lightroom Mobile shows promise, but for my needs it isn't quite ready for prime time.



Jun 30, 2017 at 10:43 AM
TheRoosta
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Best RAW processors?


Why not Adobe CC? Is it the cost? I have a monthly subscription to Adobe PS (which come bundled with LR) for $8/month. I still use Adobe Bridge predominantly for raw editing (I'm old school), which serves 80% of my raw imagine tweaking needs (you can use presets to batch process similar images). The rest I do in PhotoShop. If you have a pre-CC version of Adobe Photoshop, then Bridge may adequately suit your needs. If you want truly powerful raw editing capabilities, then you will likely not get that from freeware. CC subscribers get continual feature enhancements in realtime, so you always stay ahead of the curve.


Jun 30, 2017 at 12:26 PM
charlyw
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Best RAW processors?


butchM wrote:
That's easy ...



Then why do you describe something which doesn't even come close? Can't you accept that there are people who don't work as the poor sod who has to wade through other peoples masses of images to select the few that are worth publishing - I asked specificallly for a workflow that is suitable for for example a nature photographer on the move with some downtime to be filled purposefully - and for that the CC integration is quite fitting! Your description doesn't even tackle some of the basic requirements I outlined!



Jun 30, 2017 at 01:14 PM
butchM
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Best RAW processors?


charlyw wrote:
Then why do you describe something which doesn't even come close? Can't you accept that there are people who don't work as the poor sod who has to wade through other peoples masses of images to select the few that are worth publishing - I asked specificallly for a workflow that is suitable for for example a nature photographer on the move with some downtime to be filled purposefully - and for that the CC integration is quite fitting! Your description doesn't even tackle some of the basic requirements I outlined!


Guess that's what I get for being a 'poor sod' ... Can't accept there are other concerns than culling or cropping on an iPad? ...

If I am on the move and want to purposefully fill down time (since time is actually money for me ... this isn't a hobby), I pull my MacBook Air out of the bag instead of my iPad and get the job done. Then I share, deliver and sync those finished images with co-workers and clients using as many means as necessary. Whether it be Apple Photo Stream, Dropbox, iCloud Drive, Google Drive or direct delivery via secure FTP. All of which existed long before Lightroom CC or Lightroom Mobile.

I can do all of the above with or without a Lightroom CC subscription. With a couple of low cost Export plugins, some judicious Export presets and/or Publish Services, all of which, do not require Lightroom Mobile or the Adobe Cloud at all.



Jun 30, 2017 at 01:55 PM
charlyw
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Best RAW processors?


butchM wrote:
Guess that's what I get for being a 'poor sod' ... Can't accept there are other concerns than culling or cropping on an iPad? ...

If I am on the move and want to purposefully fill down time (since time is actually money for me ... this isn't a hobby), I pull my MacBook Air out of the bag instead of my iPad and get the job done. Then I share, deliver and sync those finished images with co-workers and clients using as many means as necessary. Whether it be Apple Photo Stream, Dropbox, iCloud Drive, Google Drive or direct delivery
...Show more

For someone like you CC is the wrong tool - but you outright dismiss it in the context of someone else who doesn't cull other peoples mess and does have different priorities. Your workflow does not fit my environment even remotely - and it doesn't fit the OP, thus a solution that doesn't require running secure FTP servers or making use of all purpose solutions that require transferring the full files (which for me would be impossible to manage as the normal broadband I got is capped at a few kilobytes upstream - quite normal for non professionals here) may well be a better fit! So: Your specialized requirements are not met by Adobe but that doesn't warrant you dissing the solution as you seem incapable of accepting that other people have oter needs!

Btw, your workflow would be faster and eaier if you were to adopt Photo mechanic - because what you describe doesn't sound too well suited to the Adobe toolchain...



Jun 30, 2017 at 02:53 PM
OntheRez
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Best RAW processors?


Stepping away from the Rent vs Own discussion concerning CC. I've expended enough energy on the topic noting that I choose to not buy into "Mafiaware." Others obviously feel different and it's likely that I'll be pushed into CC or opt for one of the growing number of competitors.

As for RAW processing, people have noted that what and how you shoot will have bearing on your choice. Personally I think DXO's RAW output is the best I've ever encountered. I run any truly important image thru it before I consider anything else. I've not been able to match its clarity and handling of light with any other processor.

This is a deeply personal choice about one's vision, desire, and need. I believe all of the usual suspects have a trial period available. I'd suggest you download 2-3 of them and run the same small set of photos thru each and inspect their output to see what is best for you.

I did this a while back (while factoring in interface and work flow) and picked DXO. YMMV



Jun 30, 2017 at 02:55 PM
butchM
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Best RAW processors?




charlyw wrote:
For someone like you CC is the wrong tool - but you outright dismiss it in the context of someone else who doesn't cull other peoples mess and does have different priorities. Your workflow does not fit my environment even remotely - and it doesn't fit the OP, thus a solution that doesn't require running secure FTP servers or making use of all purpose solutions that require transferring the full files (which for me would be impossible to manage as the normal broadband I got is capped at a few kilobytes upstream - quite normal for non professionals here) may
...Show more

Once again you are so intent on winning the argument instead of admitting you don't have your facts straight on the details of your comments.

Lightroom CC is fine for my workflow. I use it everyday in my full time business endeavors. I have been doing so with Adobe products for over 25 years now. Though to imply one can't share/deliver their work without it is flat out incorrect.

Funny how you preach the open minded premise of varying needs for individual workflows, yet show little tolerance for same.

PM? Been using it since version 1. I do use when called for. Other than fast viewing of thumbnails, it doesn't offer much for a RAW workflow. Forgive me if I give your unsolicited advice the value it deserves.





Jun 30, 2017 at 03:55 PM
chez
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Best RAW processors?


For me the integrated workflow of LR / PS is heads and tails ahead of a combination of stand alone apps. I import, cull, rate, assign descriptive words, select and sort images into groups, raw process, raw sharpening, do fine processing and jump into PS if required, final sharpening, soft proof before printing and adjust for the paper / profile and finally do a print...and if not fully satisfied, I can go back within LR, adjust until the print is what I like.

No way is there such a smooth workflow using a bunch of disjoint applications. This integration is and it's efficiency from loading off a card to final print is totally worth the $10/month or 1 less double shot frappachino with extra cameral a month.



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:22 PM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Best RAW processors?




chez wrote:
For me the integrated workflow of LR / PS is heads and tails ahead of a combination of stand alone apps. I import, cull, rate, assign descriptive words, select and sort images into groups, raw process, raw sharpening, do fine processing and jump into PS if required, final sharpening, soft proof before printing and adjust for the paper / profile and finally do a print...and if not fully satisfied, I can go back within LR, adjust until the print is what I like.

No way is there such a smooth workflow using a bunch of disjoint applications. This integration is and
...Show more

Pretty much. Personally my PP skills are pretty low - I'm not a landscape guy who can work magic in C1 - so LR is good enough*. As much as I like the output from DPP the clunkiness and GUI drive me crazy.

*Preferring a more 'natural/neutral' look.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:17 PM
butchM
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Best RAW processors?


chez wrote:
For me the integrated workflow of LR / PS is heads and tails ahead of a combination of stand alone apps. I import, cull, rate, assign descriptive words, select and sort images into groups, raw process, raw sharpening, do fine processing and jump into PS if required, final sharpening, soft proof before printing and adjust for the paper / profile and finally do a print...and if not fully satisfied, I can go back within LR, adjust until the print is what I like.

No way is there such a smooth workflow using a bunch of disjoint applications. This integration is and
...Show more

That's all well and good ... but ... there are an endless mountain of digital RAW images in this world that will never be printed ... EVER. With that in mind, there are a great many photographers that don't require those steps or capabilities and there are already many viable options to handle those needs. The vast majority of images captured these days, RAW or jpeg, will only ever be viewed/presented in the digital realm. Yes, it may take 2 or more applications but the resulting workflow is not nearly as disjointed as you portend.

While I agree, for many photographers, the Lr/Ps CC combo is a great option (I use it EVERY day) there are other very reasonable and capable options that can be equally useful. I have a very close friend who makes a very respectable living and he is currently using the macOS Photos app as his starting point and Affinity Photo along with some other plugins (many that are used also by many Ps/Lr users) for any heavy lifting. He's also excited to see the new functionality that is coming to the Photos App in High Sierra.

Plus, Lightroom and Photoshop are getting very long in the tooth. When you look at the 'new features' added to Lr CC and Ps CC over the past 2 years, just how much value has been added over what existed before CC 2015 and Lr 6 were introduced in April 2015? If we all were using Lr 6 and PS CS6 for that same period it would have cost us $160 less.

Yes, they gave us Dehaze and a couple of other meager improvements, but we are still on Process Version 2012 ... it's now 2017 ... Sure, it's only $10 bucks a month ... but even a 'double shot frappachino with extra cameral' isn't much of a bargain once it sours or goes rancid.



Jun 30, 2017 at 09:23 PM
elkhornsun
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Best RAW processors?


If you want the best RAW processor then take an hour and download trial versions of applications from DXO and CaptureOne and Coral and ON1 and whatever else you can find and then install them on your computer and take several RAW files of yours and process them with each of the applications. See which ones work the best and how much tweaking is required. I prefer to test using landscape images with a range of colors and with sky as this is where I can most easily spot problems with RAW conversion.

In the past the RAW processor provided with Photoshop was the least effective but fine for batch processing many files into JPG's to post online for clients. I used the Nikon Capture program with my Nikon RAW files when ultimate quality for large prints was important. Stands to reason that the manufacturer's software engineers would be able to produce the best results with the conversion of their RAW files to TIFF. Everyone else has to reverse engineer a RAW file.



Jul 03, 2017 at 01:29 PM
ironmarshal
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Best RAW processors?


I moved over from Lightroom to Capture One a few years ago and never regretted the switch. I do find that the images from the converter have a more pleasing look to my eye in Capture One and the layout is similar enough that the learning curve is fairly short if you are coming from Lightroom. Image management used to be the weak point but Capture One has significantly beefed up this area and I now have no qualms about that aspect. I find that I can 90% of what I want to do without having to send images to other applications for additional processing.


Jul 19, 2017 at 02:14 PM
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