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Archive 2017 · Be Careful Hiring

  
 
ohsnaphappy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Be Careful Hiring


You have really good intentions when you hire. They're going to help you, you're going to help them. Everyone wins.

But after doing this eight years, I've seen hires destroy so many photographers. One hire I know put a major wedding photographer out of business in 18 months. That photographer works a corporate 9-5 job now and went through a divorce. The hire is practically famous at this point and will not accept interns or hire anyone, haha.

There are countless positive stories about hires. But there are some really scary ones too. You have to be careful. Sadly, you won't know you made a mistake with your hire until it's too late.



Jun 28, 2017 at 01:16 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Be Careful Hiring


In for scary stories


Jun 28, 2017 at 04:24 AM
FrancisK7
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Be Careful Hiring


What do you mean by "destroy"? Are we talking Borg annihilation scenario or a hire that made him or herself indispensable to the point when he/she left the owner was so out of touch with his own business the whole house of cards collapsed on him?

Tony once talked about a photographer whose assistant had somehow lost or deleted six weddings worth of images, forcing th photographers to refund over 30,000$ in payments. Now that is clown-scary material right there.



Jun 28, 2017 at 07:39 AM
hardlyboring
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Be Careful Hiring


I think you can run into problems hiring with any company.
There was a bar/restaurant in Breck where we live and the employees were running an industrial style cocaine operation out the back door and a bunch of bar tenders used fake ID's to get jobs serving booze when they were really underage.
I am not entirely sure if the management knew about this or not but everyone got in some pretty heavy trouble.

My wife is constantly trying to put us out of business by ordering 1000s of prints of our kid and giving them away to family...the horror!



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:48 AM
GeoLaing
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Be Careful Hiring


I've been extremely fortunate to have a reliable and talented second shooter for the last four years. On the few occasions he is unable to work with me I cringe at the thought of hiring someone. I've had some good experiences, some satisfactory, and one bad experience that had me considering not booking dates when my usual second wasn't available. This person had a solid portfolio but was a nightmare to work with.

It's the same in any industry, you never really know how people are going to turn out until it's show time.



Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM
S-Man23
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Be Careful Hiring


Interesting subject. Curious what prompted the OP.


Jun 28, 2017 at 03:18 PM
Mikehit
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Be Careful Hiring


ohsnaphappy wrote:
You have really good intentions when you hire. They're going to help you, you're going to help them. Everyone wins.

But after doing this eight years, I've seen hires destroy so many photographers. One hire I know put a major wedding photographer out of business in 18 months. That photographer works a corporate 9-5 job now and went through a divorce. The hire is practically famous at this point and will not accept interns or hire anyone, haha.

There are countless positive stories about hires. But there are some really scary ones too. You have to be careful. Sadly, you won't know
...Show more


Beyond stating the bleedin' obvious that anecdote is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. What actually happened - no names are necessary but did they screw up the processing? Play a practical joke that went badly wrong? Miss key shots?




Jun 28, 2017 at 04:49 PM
amonline
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Be Careful Hiring


ohsnaphappy wrote:
...I've seen hires destroy so many photographers. One hire I know put a major wedding photographer out of business in 18 months. That photographer works a corporate 9-5 job now and went through a divorce. The hire is practically famous at this point and will not accept interns or hire anyone...


I'd be interested in hearing more about this story, as it sounds (from what was provided) like someone was just terrible with judgement, management, and or running a business.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:30 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Be Careful Hiring


This sounds like something went badly and the OP posted in at least a somewhat-state of despair over best intentions gone south.

We might lighten up a bit and give it some space until we hear differently.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:45 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Be Careful Hiring


FrancisK7 wrote:
Tony once talked about a photographer whose assistant had somehow lost or deleted six weddings worth of images, forcing th photographers to refund over 30,000$ in payments. Now that is clown-scary material right there.


All the backups too?



Jun 29, 2017 at 06:11 AM
level1photog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Be Careful Hiring


I hired an assistant to help someone in financial problem for an engagement session. That person came 45 mins late and instead of going directly to me, that person went to Starbucks to get a drink.

I was planning to hire that person for back to back wedding assistant job coming up soon, but I'm no longer interested. I didn't think it's possible mess up an assistant job but it's possible. I also hear assistant dropping lens, etc.



Jun 29, 2017 at 02:49 PM
glort
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Be Careful Hiring


level1photog wrote:
That person came 45 mins late and instead of going directly to me, that person went to Starbucks to get a drink.


To me, this is the key factor to anyone you employ or place any trust in.
It's the ingrained sense of responsibility, commitment, accountability, loyalty and self respect that is of paramount importance.
In other words, all the things you can't teach them.
They either have the quality's within as a fundamental belief and sense of personal honor or they don't.

When I hired shooters, I put on people that were very green. I could teach them how to take pictures easily. I couldn't teach them to be reliable, to have a happy disposition in front of the clients, be trustworthy, common sense or any of the things that REALLY Mattered.
If their parents hadn't already covered that, there was no hope of me instilling it for them.

The other thing I always am impressed by is the " Doers". The ones that when things fk up, they think on their feet, work out what they can do and do something instead of standing there like stunned mullets.
Don't matter whether it works or not, if it does, that's bonus points but they still get 10/10 from me for trying to do something and having a crack at solving the situation rather than just telling me " They didn't know what to do". Of course you didn't know what to do, it wasn't something that could have been foreseen and there wasn't a procedure in place to follow.

The difference is those that try to solve the situation by adapting and overcoming the difficulty with the options available to them by thinking outside the box and those that are too afraid to make a mistake or just dense so do nothing at all.

Some of the people that have worked for me and problem solved on the fly have got big bonuses in their pay packets because they saved me a lot not only financially, but in good will and reputation. I appreciate and respect that tremendously.

The right person for your job would have turned up 45 Min early and had a coffee for you as well.



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:08 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Be Careful Hiring


glort wrote:
To me, this is the key factor to anyone you employ or place any trust in.
It's the ingrained sense of responsibility, commitment, accountability, loyalty and self respect that is of paramount importance.
In other words, all the things you can't teach them.
They either have the quality's within as a fundamental belief and sense of personal honor or they don't.

When I hired shooters, I put on people that were very green. I could teach them how to take pictures easily. I couldn't teach them to be reliable, to have a happy disposition in front of the clients,
...Show more

+1000

Every single word.



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:12 AM
Scott Mosher
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Be Careful Hiring


glort wrote:
The difference is those that try to solve the situation by adapting and overcoming the difficulty with the options available to them by thinking outside the box and those that are too afraid to make a mistake or just dense so do nothing at all.


We look for these people on my day job also.



Jul 02, 2017 at 07:16 AM
ohsnaphappy
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Be Careful Hiring


It was really simple. A second shooter became skilled. Secretly built a site with photos captured with the main photographer's equipment, stole the main photographer's post-processing. After the second went public, brides flocked to the second, referrals went to the second like crazy. Shortly after a public feud broke out, everyone took the second's side. The main photographer was called vengeful, incompetent, everything you can imagine. Which was sad, because this was a very kind person. In an attempt to recover, the main photographer tried to rebrand but it didn't work. The main photographer suffered severe financial loss which led to a divorce. The main photographer now works a 9-5. Career gone. The second is beloved by all to this day.

It's the kind of story I've heard a few times, from both sides. When you're a noob it's inspiring. When you're established it's terrifying.

The specifics don't really matter imo. The warning is what matters. Be careful hiring. A wrong hire could cost you everything.



Jul 03, 2017 at 02:38 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Be Careful Hiring


That's quite different to the scenario I imagined from your OP where I assumed they had screwed up - what actually happened is that the hire abused their privileged position. My dad (who works in manufacturing) has always said 'sack your foreman and you create a competitor' where they take what they learned and use it for themselves. Which is pretty much the same thing as happened here.

For me, this story is less about a hire destroying you, and more about thinking carefully before bringing lawyers in.



Jul 03, 2017 at 03:04 AM
glort
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Be Careful Hiring


ohsnaphappy wrote:
After the second went public, brides flocked to the second, referrals went to the second like crazy.

In an attempt to recover, the main photographer tried to rebrand but it didn't work. The main photographer suffered severe financial loss which led to a divorce. The main photographer now works a 9-5.


Without knowing all the details and going on this alone, sounds like the 2nd was a marketing genius and the first was terrible at it.
It takes a lot more than pretty/ stolen pictures to make a success out of nothing and put someone else in a hole.

I would think there was a bit more to it than just being this simple and straightforward.
We all learn and we all have to spread our wings sooner or later if we do show any promise.
I don't know in this story if the 2nd did anything immoral or underhanded, but the fact is IF he was able to establish a successful business and MAINTAIN it, then he would have anyway.


I did the same with a little Italian guy I worked for. I had done a couple of years of Tiddly winks low end weddings and the guy that worked for me doing Vids worked with another guy whom worked for the biggest, busiest studios in Sydney.
I went from doing a backyard wedding or 2 a month to 3 a week in the most upmarket expensive wedding halls around. I'd never seen anything like them before and I remember the first one I felt like I was in a movie or something. Never even knew such elaborate places existed!

I think I was pretty hard work for him for a while. Probably a lot greener than he bargained for and still very wet behind the ears. There were too many times when I thought I shot my last job for him but he stuck by me, showed me where I was going wrong and never belittled my fk ups when he had good cause to. He'd kick my arse, read me the riot act and then it was always
" Ok, now you know, never making that mistake again. No look so unhappy, Now no worries, Come, we eat".
Always a feed, wine and jokes once the rightful dressing down was over.

He was a brilliant bloke, helped me immensely even when I didn't work for him anymore and frankly, the guy will always have a place in my heart for the way he looked after me, kicked my arse when I needed it and was just a bloody nice fella.

After 3.5 years, I needed to grow outside his production line wedding photography style ( which I now fully understand) and do my own thing which was growing steadily. Even years after leaving him, I was HAPPY to get a call at 10:30 on a Friday night with him asking " Please Mr. David, I am stucked, can you make the job for me tomorrow?" It felt great to help him in a way after he had done so much to help me not just about photography, but a good deal of growing up and life skills.

He never would take back the studio key so I would get the details, run down there, grab some film out the fridge and go shoot the job next day for him. There were a fair few where a family member of someone elses wedding I had done was getting married and gave him a hard time about me shooting it so I did those with notice at least.
Doing those jobs for 3+ years felt like hard work and repetitive,but being requested massaged the ego and always felt much more like fun.
Even when I was so fed up doing 3-4 jobs a weekend, every weekend, I'd give my left nut to be able to go back to that time of my life again.

I would have never done and achieved what I have over the years if it had not been what he taught me in so many things both photographic and way beyond.
Nino was old enough to be my father but more importantly, he was my mate and a bloody good one at that.






Jul 03, 2017 at 08:23 AM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Be Careful Hiring


Disclaimer: I shoot solo but on rare occasions I second shoot for others, mainly for networking and helping out. They know that I am not doing it for the experience or money, I won't be poaching shots from the main, use their equipment or "steal" their post-processing. I candidly tell them that they are getting a steal, hiring a second main shooter at a fraction of the price.

I understand where the OP's story is coming from because the truth is, dedicated assistants or second shooters (who don't want to establish his/her own brand) are as rare as flying unicorns. However, isn't this "expected" when hiring a newbie? Let's face it, you are paying them peanuts (heck, I was paid peanuts when I started assisting) so what they would get in return is the experience and portfolio building opportunity, can we agree on this?

I respect the OP's choice in not sharing the details, but without the details, it's just another overly sensational, dramatic story headline. "How my second shooter ruined my career and marriage (read this so it doesn't happen to you!)" That's a nice click-bait article right there for Petapixel and Reddit, consider writing one for SEO?

What the OP is implying, at least until we are given more details, is that a newbie can just come in, use the same equipment and process the images the same way, all of a sudden that's enough to build a referral client base. I wish it was that easy! Brides don't care about your equipment or what sliders being pushed in Lightroom, if they flock to someone else, you can bet there's a strong reason for that.

More observations:

1) Main and second shoot very different images. The "money shots" are done by the main, never the second. Learn how to direct and manage a second shooter? At least hire someone else if the second shooter keeps poaching the same shots?

2) Engage in a public feud, meaning that the main photographer tried calling out his/her second? Bad PR move right there.

3) Your spouse should be supporting you in the worst of times, including sudden loss of income or career. Perhaps the photographer's marriage wasn't as strong as it seemed to be. I fail to understand how this has anything to do with the second shooter.

Finding new clients is a skill, retaining them and keeping them loyal is an art. Again, so much emphasis on gear and post-processing, which are irrelevant to me. I would say the problem lies in the photographer's ability to communicate, to both his/her clients and second shooter. Maybe a 9-5 job with steady income is a blessing after all?



Jul 03, 2017 at 09:46 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Be Careful Hiring


ohsnaphappy wrote:
stole the main photographer's post-processing





Jul 03, 2017 at 10:27 AM
tntcorp
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Be Careful Hiring


we all need to spread our wings... but should be appreciative and recognized those who gave us the opportunities and tutelage.

unethical is when you take someone specialized techniques/processing, etc... and call them your own w/out providing credits.

but when you are hiring a 2nd, keep in mind that ojt will be what they are looking for and may eventually be a competitor in the long term business plan.




Jul 03, 2017 at 11:56 AM
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