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LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G
  
 
mjm6
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


One thing to consider about filters on a lens this wide is that the optical quality of the filter is very important, and optically, the lens may really go to pieces when using even a single filter.

Also, an internal gel filter on the back side may have been avoided because of the same problem.

I really wish there were a 100mm filter option for this because I have a 100mm system already for the 16-35 and the 24-70 and other lenses, so changing or moving up to another one for that lens seems to be illogical, and expensive.

It may make sense to get a cheap holder and a single 150x150mm filter for the 12-24 and be done with it. Yeah, that's what I should do... !?!


---Michael


Ugh... I think I may need a different support group... I must have joined the Photography Enablers group.

Edited on Jun 28, 2017 at 05:33 PM · View previous versions



Jun 28, 2017 at 03:58 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Because of the mirrorless shorter flange distance, Sony was able to design much smaller 12-24/4 and 16-35/2.8 lenses. That was not possible with their 24-70/2.8 but this advantage is evident with their new ultra wide lenses.

The first to do it was Zeiss with their very compact Loxia 21/2.8. Perhaps Sigma will surprise us with small and excellent wide angle lenses as well.

As Roger's results show, not only the new 12-24/4 matches/beats the competition in regards to resolution, it does it with a compact lens design at about half the weight. Incredible feat indeed.



Jun 28, 2017 at 03:58 PM
Charlie N
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


mjm6 wrote:
One thing to consider about filters on a lens this wide is that the optical quality of the filter is very important, and optically, the lens may really go to pieces when using even a single filter.

Also, an internal gel filter on the back side may have been avoided because of the same problem.

I really wish there were a 100mm filter option for this because I have a 100mm system already for the 16-35 and the 24-70 and other lenses, so changing or moving up to another one for that lens seems to be illogical, and expensive.

It may makes sense
...Show more
from using the nd throttle, a rear filter will be much better. Front filter deals with geometric angle of light, rear filter not so much. I just bought a sheet of gel filter by LEE, going to experiment with existing lenses like the CV 10 and 16-35, I dont think it'll work well in the field, but I want to give it a shot. Front filter 12mm can be disastrous like it's been with the CV 10, the vignetting becomes horrible with 6 and 10 stop filters. with 3 stop, it's barely usable. With the CV10, I'm confident the gels will work fine, the mount is straight forward and easy to add gels and use painters tape. 16-35 looks like it has the same baffle as the 12-24, so that'll be a challenge to see how it would work. Maybe remove some baffle material? Not really sure.



Jun 28, 2017 at 05:10 PM
MIRANDA1
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


It's an interesting lens for sure and is a welcome addition to the FE lens line-up. I would love to see a comparison between the new 12-24 and the VC 12 @ 12mm and the Loxia 21 at 21mm.


Jun 28, 2017 at 05:14 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


MIRANDA1 wrote:
It's an interesting lens for sure and is a welcome addition to the FE lens line-up. I would love to see a comparison between the new 12-24 and the VC 12 @ 12mm and the Loxia 21 at 21mm.


I will do that but don't have access to 10 copies like Lensrentals. If I get lucky and get a well-centered copy, I will post the results.



Jun 28, 2017 at 05:27 PM
mjm6
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Charlie N wrote:
from using the nd throttle, a rear filter will be much better. Front filter deals with geometric angle of light, rear filter not so much. I just bought a sheet of gel filter by LEE, going to experiment with existing lenses like the CV 10 and 16-35, I dont think it'll work well in the field, but I want to give it a shot. Front filter 12mm can be disastrous like it's been with the CV 10, the vignetting becomes horrible with 6 and 10 stop filters. with 3 stop, it's barely usable. With the CV10, I'm confident the
...Show more

Charles,

The problem with a rear filter is that it acts similarly to the cover glass on the sensor, so it can differentially cause performance loss to the edges due to the angles of incidence and refraction.

Also, any imperfections in the gel will impact the image in a manner much more significantly than if the gel were on the front of the lens, because at the front, the lens hasn't integrated the light yet into the image forming rays, and any imperfections are thrown out of focus by being so close to the front element and presumably so far away from the focus point. This is not the case on the rear nearly as much, and thus a minor imperfection will be much more significant.

If you do test gel filters, make sure you are getting optical gels, and not lighting gels. Lighting gels aren't intended or manufactured for optical path, and probably have much worse performance than optical gels. I think Lee makes both, so just be sure about that. If you bought a large sheet, it is almost certainly lighting gel material, not optical gel.



Jun 28, 2017 at 05:31 PM
mjm6
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


philip_pj wrote:
The graph, mitesh, indicates the lens on the right is the better performer, if we accept the scaling is similar despite the labeling on the left side; and the usual caveats apply. You are looking for smooth progress from center to corner; parallelism of sag/tan lines, a lack of dramatic fall-offs and then - the actual numbers.




Yes, I was wondering about that scale. Either that graph is messed up in the horizontal scale, or there was a reason they stopped the measurements at 17mm. That is a full frame lens, so there is no reason to stop it at 17mm unless they either made an error, or the performance got so bad that they decided to not report all the way out.

I'm not seeing that same graph in the original Canon 11-24 tests, but those in there are showing out to 20mm. I think the graph in the most recent blog is an error, but not positive. The ones in the Canon report are very different in formatting.



Jun 28, 2017 at 06:29 PM
Charlie N
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


mjm6 wrote:
Charles,

The problem with a rear filter is that it acts similarly to the cover glass on the sensor, so it can differentially cause performance loss to the edges due to the angles of incidence and refraction.

Also, any imperfections in the gel will impact the image in a manner much more significantly than if the gel were on the front of the lens, because at the front, the lens hasn't integrated the light yet into the image forming rays, and any imperfections are thrown out of focus by being so close to the front element and presumably so far away from
...Show more

yes, I got the Lee gels (assuming those were designed for this purpose), and going to test against the CV 10 + front filter. CV10 + front filter has a very low limitation. The ND throttle did rob a tiny bit of sharpness from the rok 14, but other than that, it behaves like no filter. Hopefully I get it before the weekend to do some test charts and a field test. I'de love not having to pay for the 16-35GM, however the GM has other qualities that I really like as well.



Jun 28, 2017 at 06:36 PM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Thanks Roger for the publishing the great results on the new Sony! It looks like I may have to buy this lens brand new when it's available soon. Stunning, and love that it isn't as huge as the Sigma and Canon, and seems better as well!

I have a great copy of Canon's 16-35/4L IS, so the original Sony 16-35 was of little interest. Same goes for the new f/2.8 GM model (still have the Canon 16-35/2.8L II for the time being if I need f/2.8, which I haven't!). So, lucky for me -- get the new Sony 12-24 and match with the Sony 24-70/4, and Canon 24-70/2.8L or 24-105/4L IS and good to go with my Loxia's!

I haven't used a filter in several years, so the bulbous front is of no concern to me unless there are issues with veiling flare or too prevalent ghosts. I have several of these types of lenses and don't find them a problem. PP in LR takes care of most issues I'd use filters for.



Jun 28, 2017 at 07:07 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


I'm not happy. I'm not happy because now I want to buy both of these new lenses!!


Jun 28, 2017 at 07:36 PM
 

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Fred Miranda
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Same boat!

Gary Clennan wrote:
I'm not happy. I'm not happy because now I want to buy both of these new lenses!!




Jun 28, 2017 at 07:40 PM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


I think this is the first pre-order of my life! Hoping I make the cut for the first batch of shipping. Now I live in anxious anticipation for the next couple weeks!

Thanks Roger and Fred!



Jun 28, 2017 at 09:39 PM
mjm6
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Yes, me too... Plus I ordered some filters and a holder from Nisi...

I decided that this lens will be a better match with what I have, and I really won't need the speed of the 16-35 GM.

The only real question now is how good id it compared to the 16-35 f4 and whether I should sell that one off.

I'm thinking I probably will because it is overlapped by the 24-70 and now this one picks up at 24 and overlaps the rest.



Jun 28, 2017 at 09:47 PM
sids911
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


They should've slapped the "GM" badge on this one


Jun 28, 2017 at 09:53 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


mjm6 wrote:
Yes, me too... Plus I ordered some filters and a holder from Nisi...

I decided that this lens will be a better match with what I have, and I really won't need the speed of the 16-35 GM.

The only real question now is how good id it compared to the 16-35 f4 and whether I should sell that one off.

I'm thinking I probably will because it is overlapped by the 24-70 and now this one picks up at 24 and overlaps the rest.


After 24mm, the 16-35/4 gets weaker so keeping both loses appeal unless you are really serious about filters.

I have a bigger problem on my hands now because I will never get rid of my Loxia 21/2.8 and pre-ordered both 16-35GM and 12-24/4G. I also have an amazing copy of the 16-35/4 ZA....Not sure what to do as I think they all have their place. The good news is that I can test them all side-by-side.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:08 PM
mjm6
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


Fred,

Exactly! The usefulness of the 16-35 is questionable for me now.

I also have the 21mm Loxia and that just makes the 16-35 even more redundant.

I'll have to test the 12-24 and the 16-35 at both 16mm and 24mm, but I suspect the 16-35 will get booted. If I want to go light, the Loxia will do that. Otherwise, the 12-24 will likely rule the day.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:18 PM
chez
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


sids911 wrote:
They should've slapped the "GM" badge on this one


Only if you also want the GM price tag slapped on as well.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:28 PM
GMPhotography
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


This may change things for me if it's that good. I have the CV 12 , Batis 18, Sony 28 which is a temp fix but I think I rather have the 12-24 switch the Batis 18 for a 25. I would have more use for a fast 25mm than a fast 18.of course this has to beat the 12/18 or it's not worth it




Jun 29, 2017 at 01:13 AM
chez
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


GMPhotography wrote:
This may change things for me if it's that good. I have the CV 12 , Batis 18, Sony 28 which is a temp fix but I think I rather have the 12-24 switch the Batis 18 for a 25. I would have more use for a fast 25mm than a fast 18.of course this has to beat the 12/18 or it's not worth it



For me the big drawback is the lack of easy filter use on the 12-24. It would be a foremost landscape lens and I use filters a lot in my landscape work.



Jun 29, 2017 at 01:33 AM
mogul
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · LensRentals very impressed by the FE 12-24/4G


sids911 wrote:
They should've slapped the "GM" badge on this one


I think the GM means the glass has been ground by the special machine, otherwise G designation is top of the line.



Jun 29, 2017 at 01:45 AM
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