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Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of n...
  
 
Paulspix
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


I have taken photos on a huge farm in my area for quite a number of years. I am probably the only person who ever walks through the numerous woodland and marsh areas that are loaded with wildlife and flora.

Now a new owner of the property wishes to purchase rights to "ALL" of the photos taken on the property. He wants to "play" them continuously on a web site he is developing to advertise the place as a recreational area.

Many of these photos are professional quality ... I just never have had much of an interest in selling professionally. And since I just turned 81, I don't see such an interest being thought about at this time either.

But this one time deal does interest me ... other than for finding out more specifics about the deal, how does one go about pricing photos such as these... some of them... such as my two month old sand hill crane posting are posted here on FM.

He of course knows he will be purchasing only limited rights ... and absolutely no re-sale rights.

Where do I start on establishing his rights and a purchase price.

Any suggestions please.

Thanks
Paul




Sellling limited digital photo rights ...




Jun 21, 2017 at 10:55 PM
glort
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??



Paul you will no doubt get a lot of Conflicting advise but mine is simply to get what you can for the pics.

People will tell you about pricing guides and that the usage is in effect commercial and a whole lot of other things that will all amount to the formulation of a price that will make you sound like a greedy twat and the person interested would never fathom paying. You may burn your bridges with going onto the property again if you ever want to.

I'd simply approach it by telling the owner you think the value of the pics is much more than he would be prepared to pay so ask him what they are worth to him.
If he lowballs you, it simply means he would never pay nor have any idea of their true worth anyhow. OTOH, you may get a figure that you can will live with and put towards something you would like.

It's all well and good to quote these numbers from guides or formulations when you are working with an ad agency who understands and know how commercial photo usage works but to Joe average, try laying that on them and 99% of the time you'll blow them away and walk away with nothing but bad feelings and resentment.

My father who still runs his business and is only a couple of years younger than you always says it's better to have the money in your pocket than something sitting on the shelf. He always lives for today as he says no one knows how many tomorrows they may have. We have found that out the hard way and repeatedly.

My suggestion is don't try to be too clever with this, it won't work. Just be upfront with the guy and simply ask what number he had in mind. You can always bump it and say you think that's a bit on the low side but you'd be prepared to let him have them for XXX more being a reasonable increase in his offer and go from there.
Don't be afraid of a bit of too and fro, it's fun.

If it's still too low then you have lost nothing. You might even pull a miracle and get more than you thought. Wouldn't count on it but at this stage you have nothing to loose so you are in the best position you can be.

Given the pics are in fact worth nothing atm because you have no interest in selling them and you can still keep them to enjoy yourself, I'd say whatever you get is a bonus.

Good luck with it.





Jun 22, 2017 at 09:23 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


glort wrote:
It's all well and good to quote these numbers from guides or formulations when you are working with an ad agency who understands and know how commercial photo usage works but to Joe average, try laying that on them and 99% of the time you'll blow them away and walk away with nothing but bad feelings and resentment.


+1

I would only add that researching the theoretical worth could prove useful. Perhaps begin with Getty or Google "photo licensing pricing" and go from there. It never hurts to have context.

But I agree with Glort, let your personal needs/wants and situation govern the matter, not an online calculator.

Best of luck,

Chuck





Jun 22, 2017 at 11:19 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


Pricing is difficult and, in the current photographic climate, an emotive subject with amateurs encroaching on the professional turf. Overall I agree with glort, thinking along the principle of anything is worth what someone is wiling to pay and given the photos are sat on your drive at the moment, anything you get for them is profit.

As for rights, it is easier to specify how they can be used rather than how they cannot be used - there are various simple contract templates on the internet you could use as a starting point but keep it simple, along the lines of 'to be used only for advertising purposes, not for resale and creditation should be given to the photographer'. And list the photos being used - you can always add more over time if you take some really good ones.




Jun 22, 2017 at 11:30 AM
Michael White
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


If you sell give him rights to use on website for publicity only and any other use will require new agreement. The one thing you must not do is release your rights to the images.

Second it sounds like they be several hundred inmates if not more and if it was me I would join one of the photo groups that have database of your type images and offer legal support at least an initial free interview between you and a legal representative that is familiar with this type of transaction. But never release you rights to your images and never give client full usage rights alway give limited right based on the clients desired use with option for ore rights in the future as required.

Now as you say you up in age if the rights are for a specified period make sure that the payments if any continue to your estate and the client know if anything happens to you your estate will be handling it. It might be a great chance to add monies to trusts for you family. If nit was me a good portion would be going to my granddaughters.



Jun 25, 2017 at 01:46 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


So, you have had access to someone else's land for a number of years. I'm sure you have derived hours and hours of pleasure observing and photographing the flora and fauna.

The landowner comes across as a standup guy. I suggest you provide him limited rights for a token amount, say $1.00 (to make it a legal transaction) as a way to thank him for all the years you've had access to the land. Perhaps you could request he provide contact information for you in case someone would like to buy a print.



Jun 27, 2017 at 07:42 PM
Norm Shapiro
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


Second what dmacmillian says. There are not going to get rich off your photos, and you may want to continue going there, so make that part of the deal.


Jun 28, 2017 at 07:05 PM
 

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tntcorp
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


Norm Shapiro wrote:
Second what dmacmillian says. There are not going to get rich off your photos, and you may want to continue going there, so make that part of the deal.


+ 2, continuing free and unrestricted access until the day you give up photography



Jun 28, 2017 at 08:12 PM
Paulspix
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


dmacmillan wrote:
So, you have had access to someone else's land for a number of years. I'm sure you have derived hours and hours of pleasure observing and photographing the flora and fauna.

The landowner comes across as a standup guy. I suggest you provide him limited rights for a token amount, say $1.00 (to make it a legal transaction) as a way to thank him for all the years you've had access to the land. Perhaps you could request he provide contact information for you in case someone would like to buy a print.


Thanks dmacmillan ... well it has not been that one sided ... he has been provided with enough of my photos (one time only free use) of the farm free of charge for a 30 plus page book ... he printed a number of them for his friends.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Paulspix
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


glort wrote:
People will tell you about pricing guides and that the usage is in effect commercial and a whole lot of other things that will all amount to the formulation of a price that will make you sound like a greedy twat and the person interested would never fathom paying. You may burn your bridges with going onto the property again if you ever want to.

I'd simply approach it by telling the owner you think the value of the pics is much more than he would be prepared to pay so ask him what they are worth to him.
If
...Show more
Well like they say on one of the TV game shows ... Good Answer! Thank you very much for the comment. I consider it good advice.
.



Jun 28, 2017 at 10:36 PM
rw11
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


If you like him & trust him, just tell him you don't know what they are worth and are planning to ask some pro photogs to find out.

Then ask him if he has a number in mind; see what he says.



Jun 28, 2017 at 11:28 PM
glort
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


Paulspix wrote:
... he has been provided with enough of my photos (one time only free use) of the farm free of charge for a 30 plus page book ... he printed a number of them for his friends.


Yeah, as someone who had a nice estate, I could well see the value if it were mine of a neighbour I could trust wandering around taking nice pics of all it's features. I think this is a very beneficial deal for all concerned.

I was wandering my fathers and his neighbors property a couple of years back and found a massive rubbish pile on the back border that I knew the 92 yo neighbour hadn't put there. Figured he probably had no need for all the old baby stuff like prams and cots that were in the pile nor a lot of broken toys. There was also some stuff in my fathers nearby Dam that was distinctly out of place.

Old fella hadn't been down the back for 10 years so I got Dads ATV and my camera and took the old fella down there to show him and take some pics. Turned out the low life renters of the property behind were moving out and thought they could dump their garbage there and clear out. Unfortunately for them and by sheer Dumb luck or fate, I happened to wander round where I had never been before and spotted it just before they did a runner.

The Neighbor being a retired magistrate had papers served on them the next morning and the mess on his place and the stuff in Dads dam was cleared up in no time and without a single paper or scrap remaining. Old fella must have put the wind up them because it was the best clean up job and fastest I ever saw. Must have taken a decent size truck or plenty of Ute's to get it all out of there.

Both he and my father saw wisdom in going round the property's to check on things more often as Dad hadn't been down the back of his for a good 5 years either. Now Dad is more aware of the places he hasn't bothered with before, there is always some thing he spots that he wants me to do when I'm there like clearing noxious weeds on the tractor or dropping dead or Dying trees.

I can see that having someone wandering round and keeping an eye on things if the owner does not would be an asset in itself not to mention capturing the beauty of the place.

Paul I don't know what your inclination is and I know you said you aren't interested in selling pics but if the guy is going to have visitors come there in any number, what about if you produced a book of your pics and offered it for sale to people? You wouldn't have to get it published, You could simply make a boxed collection of prints or have the images bound together as a lot of labs do now. Maybe a slide show or even a narrated presentation on DVD?

Might be a way to make some pocket money for yourself and allow the neighbour the use of your pictures in return?

Just a thought....... :0)



Jun 29, 2017 at 02:10 AM
mdude85
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


Mikehit wrote:
... and given the photos are sat on your drive at the moment, anything you get for them is profit.



I don't necessarily agree. The OP acquired a lot of pricey gear and spent years learning the craft of photography, and then spent even more time photographing the farm. Whatever he can get from the photos is not profit so much as a certain amount earned that can be applied against the costs of producing the image.

Maybe each image was not expensive to produce in and of itself, but nonetheless was the result of a lot of initial investment and continual learning, as well as an expression of an artistic vision that carries a monetary value in our society.

So yeah, the point is that the photos do have value and I think the OP should try to maximize that. Nonetheless I agree with many of the other points made in the thread -- the OP should ask the client for a budget and ought to include a stipulation for the photographer's continued use and/or enjoyment of the farm.

That way the OP is really helping to continue a longstanding good relationship and make some money in the process, which I bet will come in handy eventually.




Jun 29, 2017 at 03:32 PM
glort
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buyer wants to purchase limited rights on large nmbr of non-pros photos.. What to do??


mdude85 wrote:
So yeah, the point is that the photos do have value and I think the OP should try to maximize that.



I get what you are saying but I would suggest that pics sitting on a HDD that are not being offered for sale in fact have no value other than the personal value to the shooter being the reason they took them. I would also suggest the value of the pics put on the open market such as a stock agency may be quite low regardless of quality simply due to the amount of competing work on the same subject type.

We could argue all day as to their potential worth but at the end of the day, it's the old adage about what someone is willing to pay and it seems like there is only one person offering to buy at this time.

I would also point out relevant or not as it may be, the person asking is the NEW owner, not the one that let the op onto the land previously. That may have value and it may not depending on one's POV and future intent.

I'd also suggest, with full respect to the OP, as one gets further along the track in life, money often becomes far less important. I see this very much in my father and I feel it in myself.
Money is only important when you don't have enough to pay the bills or are ambitious. When you are comfortable, there can easily be more important things. I could do many things other people would dream of but I do not have the motivation. My Daughter just got home from her first overseas trip. She wants to go again and I'd rather pay for her to go and see things and enjoy herself than go myself. Money better spent to me.

There are lots of things I'd give everything I have and more for I can't get and I'd give a lot just to see out the rest of my days without any of the trauma I have already been through. Camera's, cars, homes and material things are often far less valuable when you reach a certain point in life. With a bit of luck, you are not old enough to realise that yet which isn't a bad thing.

Maybe the OP rather spend time with his kids or grand kids than try to sell pictures and take up his time with that than possibly frustrate himself with image sales. Plenty of things I could do to make more money but I couldn't be buggered either.

Maximizing the profit from these pictures seems not to be a priority of the OP and I can see many possible reasons why he would prefer to do other things rather than learn the intricacies of selling on the net. :0)





Jul 08, 2017 at 06:07 AM







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