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Archive 2017 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?

  
 
eyelaser
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


So, I recently got a 5D4 to compliment my 1Dx2 and realize that the cameras calculate exposure differently if you set up the 1Dx2 to meter from the focus point and the 5D4 only meters from the center. If one uses an off center point to focus the 5D4 how does one insure proper exposure if the subject is moving in uneven/shadowed light. I understand checking histogram but that is inconvenient and impractical if one has a moving subject and one wants to use a peripheral point for better in camera composition. I figure one choice is to bracket shots but honestly haven't done that since the old film days? I also considered metering with the center point, enabling exposure lock and then moving the focus point. Or am I overthinking the whole thing and just set the exposure to evaluative and realize there is enough dynamic range that it doesn't really matter much?
Thanks
Eric



Jun 21, 2017 at 01:50 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


I may not be the best person to respond to you, since I never use spot metering outside of manual exposure mode. I do so when the light is pretty constant, so there is time to take a reading with the center point, dial in exposure, reframe and shoot. (This perfectly mimics how one has traditionally used hand-held spot meters.)

If not shooting in manual, my normal practice is to use evaluative metering with exposure compensation as needed. The camera actually seems pretty good in taking into consideration the subject and AF point--as long as you are NOT using focus/recompose. I often don't use more than a third stop adjustment, unless I'm shooting in a cave. Over time, you develop a sort of predictive memory for how the camera will read a scene.

That said, I do sometimes miss exposures, or mistake how the camera sees the scene. Since I shoot RAW and have time in post it is usually a non-issue, but to be certain, there is no substitute for checking histograms.

I know there are some disciplines (concert photography maybe, and whatever you shoot) where combining spot metering with auto exposure is more useful, but I haven't had to do this too much.

One thing I have noticed about the 5D Mark IV is that it seems quite tolerant of underexposure, but recovering highlights in overexposed images is more challenging.

Maybe someone who uses spot metering more frequently can chime in.



Jun 21, 2017 at 05:10 PM
eyelaser
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


Thanks for the reply. My basic concern is whether the exposure will be off significantly enough when using peripheral focus points with the 5D4. I always shoot manual exposure and RAW and prefer using peripheral focusing points to compose the image rather than using the center point locking and recomposing. I realize this will only be an issue when the subject is in very different light than the background that falls within the center focusing point. And of course if it is a static shot there is ample time to check the histogram and make the adjustments but that's not always the case nor is it practical with moving subjects.
Eric



Jun 21, 2017 at 10:59 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


eyelaser wrote:
Thanks for the reply. My basic concern is whether the exposure will be off significantly enough when using peripheral focus points with the 5D4. I always shoot manual exposure and RAW and prefer using peripheral focusing points to compose the image rather than using the center point locking and recomposing. I realize this will only be an issue when the subject is in very different light than the background that falls within the center focusing point. And of course if it is a static shot there is ample time to check the histogram and make the adjustments but that's not
...Show more

For all intents and purposes spot metering is the most overrated inaccurate relic in current cameras. Do yourself a favor and learn to trust the matrix metering, spot metering is too finicky in comparison. Once you got around to know how matrix metering works then you can start combining your manual exposure with auto ISO to achieve shots you wouldn't have gotten reliably under any circumstances with spot metering



Jun 22, 2017 at 02:38 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


If you shoot manual exposure, why is this a problem? Forgive the question but I am new to shooting 'all in manual'.

If the bird is in moving from light to shadow, then if the exposure is set for the brightest situation the chances are you will be able to recover the exposure in post processing if the variance is within about 3 stops. If of course the exposure is set for dark shadow and it goes into good light then the whites may blow. So yes, I do believe you have enough dynamic range to handle it even though I don't believe the lighting between centre and peripheral points will vary that much given they only occupy about 2/3 of the frame.

I generally meter off grass or palm of my hand and set the exposure from there, and take a couple of test shots to make sure. And take test shots every half hour or so depending on how conditions are changing.

I believe that the 1Dx2 and the 5D4 both have exposure compensation in manual mode so if the bird goes into shadow you can spin the exp compensation wheel and it will adjust accordingly (on my7D2 I have it set to adjust ISO).



Jun 22, 2017 at 02:42 AM
eyelaser
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


Mikehit wrote:
If you shoot manual exposure, why is this a problem? Forgive the question but I am new to shooting 'all in manual'.

If the bird is in moving from light to shadow, then if the exposure is set for the brightest situation the chances are you will be able to recover the exposure in post processing if the variance is within about 3 stops. If of course the exposure is set for dark shadow and it goes into good light then the whites may blow. So yes, I do believe you have enough dynamic range to handle it even though
...Show more

It is only a problem because the 5D4 does not use the focus point to meter exposure unless it is the center point....if you use the center point it is absolutely fine and if the focus point has similar lighting as the center then also it is no problem. But imagine the focus point is in bright sunlight but the center point is in a deep shadow then the exposure likely will be off...for animals that move you would then have to pay attention to both the focus point as well as the center point to make sure the exposure is correct....with the 1Dx2 the metering can be linked to the focus point and so that aspect of metering for correct exposure is a non issue.
It doesn't seem though that many have found this an issue so it probably isn't a big deal.
Eric



Jun 22, 2017 at 10:52 AM
garyvot
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?




eyelaser wrote:
It is only a problem because the 5D4 does not use the focus point to meter exposure unless it is the center point....


Just making sure we are all on the same page here... The 5D4 absolutely does use the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode. In fact, the evaluative exposure algorithms are designed to handle exactly the situations you are describing. It is only spot metering where it does not.

I have found that spot metering is really only useful where you have time to very carefully measure exactly a middle gray tone. Any other situation can throw the meter reading wildly off. I think this is why some of us are struggling with your question, TBH.



Jun 22, 2017 at 12:01 PM
eyelaser
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


garyvot wrote:
Just making sure we are all on the same page here... The 5D4 absolutely does use the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode. In fact, the evaluative exposure algorithms are designed to handle exactly the situations you are describing. It is only spot metering where it does not.

I have found that spot metering is really only useful where you have time to very carefully measure exactly a middle gray tone. Any other situation can throw the meter reading wildly off. I think this is why some of us are struggling with your question, TBH.


Ah, thank you! I didn't realize that...many thanks for making that clear to me!
Eric



Jun 22, 2017 at 04:08 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?




eyelaser wrote:
Ah, thank you! I didn't realize that...many thanks for making that clear to me!
Eric


You're welcome.



Jun 22, 2017 at 07:58 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


garyvot wrote:
Just making sure we are all on the same page here... The 5D4 absolutely does use the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode. In fact, the evaluative exposure algorithms are designed to handle exactly the situations you are describing. It is only spot metering where it does not.


Not only that, the evaluative metering does take the subject as a whole into account by receiving AF measurements for every autofocus point and then weighing the metering information according to the closeness to the plane of focus - the closer the focus is, the higher that area is weighed - thus it should quite stably meter your subject and you can easily adjust your exposure with exposure compensation...



Jun 23, 2017 at 12:38 AM
brian500au
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


garyvot wrote:
Just making sure we are all on the same page here... The 5D4 absolutely does use the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode. In fact, the evaluative exposure algorithms are designed to handle exactly the situations you are describing. It is only spot metering where it does not.

I have found that spot metering is really only useful where you have time to very carefully measure exactly a middle gray tone. Any other situation can throw the meter reading wildly off. I think this is why some of us are struggling with your question, TBH.


Is this only the 5D4 that uses the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode? What about 5D3 / S / sR? I thought it was only the 1D series that used the active AF point to measure exposure.




Jun 23, 2017 at 01:08 AM
garyvot
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?




brian500au wrote:
Is this only the 5D4 that uses the active AF point to measure exposure in matrix / evaluative mode? What about 5D3 / S / sR? I thought it was only the 1D series that used the active AF point to measure exposure.



All Canon cameras use the active AF point when calculating exposure in evaluative metering mode. It literally could not work otherwise. This has been true since the film days.



Jun 23, 2017 at 01:11 AM
Ming-Tzu
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


I may be doing it wrong but I try to pick the brightest part of the composition, and meter off that. Then, I expose as much to the right as possible without clipping.


Jun 23, 2017 at 09:34 AM
jrhoffman75
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/videos/tutorials/quick_tips/yt_qt_evaluative_metering.shtml


Jun 23, 2017 at 10:02 AM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


The confusing in this post is that the 1D allows you to assign the Active AF point to SPOT meter whereas the 5D series uses the large center area for SPOT metering. As also mentioned, in Matrix metering mode, both 1D series and 5D series give added weight to the Active AF point when metering.

To answer to original question another way, you can also use Exposure Lock on the 5D in SPOT Metering mode to lock in your exposure and then compose for focus using an outer AF point and it will then work as a 1D series would in SPOT mode with the Active AF point tied to SPOT metering.


While spot metering can be dangerous to use if you really don't know what you are doing, many wedding photogs, make a living shooting a women wearing white, and SPOT meter the dress and use a known range of EC so that the dress is properly exposed as white and not blown out - but that is not how most people use their camera on a regular basis - so Matrix Metering is almost always a better option.



Jun 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM
eyelaser
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


wallstreetonei wrote:
The confusing in this post is that the 1D allows you to assign the Active AF point to SPOT meter whereas the 5D series uses the large center area for SPOT metering. As also mentioned, in Matrix metering mode, both 1D series and 5D series give added weight to the Active AF point when metering.

To answer to original question another way, you can also use Exposure Lock on the 5D in SPOT Metering mode to lock in your exposure and then compose for focus using an outer AF point and it will then work as a 1D series would in
...Show more

Thanks so much and apologies for the confusion. I've been shooting a 1d series for so long now that I was misremembering how the 5D4 worked. Happy to know how the 5D4 works and allays some of my exposure fears.
Eric



Jun 23, 2017 at 05:15 PM
ross.thomas
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


eyelaser wrote:
It is only a problem because the 5D4 does not use the focus point to meter exposure unless it is the center point....if you use the center point it is absolutely fine and if the focus point has similar lighting as the center then also it is no problem. But imagine the focus point is in bright sunlight but the center point is in a deep shadow then the exposure likely will be off...for animals that move you would then have to pay attention to both the focus point as well as the center point to make sure the exposure
...Show more

I've always had a major issue when trying to spot meter based on the focus point of the 1DX2. I get wildly inaccurate exposures. Any advice?



Jun 24, 2017 at 01:27 PM
eyelaser
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


ross.thomas wrote:
I've always had a major issue when trying to spot meter based on the focus point of the 1DX2. I get wildly inaccurate exposures. Any advice?


I have used the spot meter with the 1D series for years and don't have that issue...it is very useful when the subject is in the shadows and there is bright back lighting...however, if the subject is varied with light and dark areas it can be an issue....for example, a leopard with dark spots (rosettes) and yellow/orange fur will give very different exposures depending on where one puts the spot....having said that, I have decided to switch back to evaluative metering and see how that works on both 1Dx2 and 5d4. (As an experiment, I would set up a situation where you could shift back and forth using spot and evaluative metering and see if there is a difference...there probably will be some but not dramatic)
Eric



Jun 25, 2017 at 08:29 AM
Mike Jacks0n
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


ross.thomas wrote:
I've always had a major issue when trying to spot meter based on the focus point of the 1DX2. I get wildly inaccurate exposures. Any advice?


Are you saying the point linked spot metering isn't working correctly? Or are you looking for tips on how to get accurate results using the spot metering option? In my mind, the AF point linked spot metering should be pretty straight forward provided it isn't misaligned.



Jun 27, 2017 at 12:29 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1DX2 vs 5D4....how do you expose properly?


Mike Jacks0n wrote:
Are you saying the point linked spot metering isn't working correctly? Or are you looking for tips on how to get accurate results using the spot metering option? In my mind, the AF point linked spot metering should be pretty straight forward provided it isn't misaligned.


It's working as intended - unstable and widely varying if the subject has varying contrasting areas... That's the nature of the beast - and that's why it should be relegated to the pile of "remember when we have only had spot metering, boy did that suck" notions...



Jun 28, 2017 at 12:19 AM
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